Moravsky div not determinate?

[carolyn137]

As I said above I have grown Stupicke, seeds sent to me already packaged from Europe, and the one I grew was the rani one. I don't know if the rani-pol one is different, both outside varieties, but they're round whereas MD is not, for most folks as noted by Andrey aswell as others who listed it in the SSE YEarbook.

I too have listed all four of the stupickes, whoops, that was at GW years ago and it was a fun thread b'c we were trying to find out who the breeder was. We knew that Sodomka was the one who distriubted seeds from that breeder, initially to Abundant Life Seed Co, and while phone contact was made with the breeding station in Czechkoslovakia and the woman there said she'd find out what she could, and an e-mail contact was given to her, and she did write back, she said there was no record of who the breeder was.

For whatever it's worth, I far prefer Matina, a look alike for Stupice but for me and quite a few others it tastes much better. Matina was once a German commercial variety. so it's be written.

Was it once Stupice?

[DiggingDogFarm]

Originally Posted by carolyn137

I don't know if the rani-pol one is different, both outside varieties, but they're round whereas MD is not.....

In the pictures of Stupické polní rané, both on the Moravoseed site and a Czech gardening forum where gardener's had posted pics of their plants, it apprears to me to be oblate.

Originally Posted by carolyn137

I far prefer Matina, a look alike for Stupice but for me and quite a few others it tastes much better. Matina was once a German commercial variety. so it's be written.

Interestingly, I found a cultivar on Moravoseed's webite listed in the past called Sláva Porýní (Rhineland Glory) that appears to be quite similar to Stupice and Matina. The fruits are globes.

I sure wish I could get my hands on a packet of Stupické polní rané and a packet of Sláva Porýní so I could compare all involved side-by-side.

[Andrey_BY]

DiggingDogFarm, that was what I was thing for the first several years about Moravsky Div calling it as one of Stupicke strains, but then has accepted info from one of our local seed companies that these are two different vareities and they gave me so called original name for it as Moravsky Div. That's what I can say.

Of course, it would be great to get in contact with somebody at Moravoseed to clarify what is the real original name for this tomato variety (Moravian Wonder/Моравское чудо=Moravsky Div or what?)

[coloken]

All this is way over my head and probably discussed enough so please forgive me for drifting away from the main subject with this post.
I notice:
Quote:
Stupicke rane (can be translated as Stupicke Early)
Stupicke rane polni (Stupicke Early - sorry, can't translate "polni")
Stupicke rane sklenikove (Stupicke Early for glasshouse)
Stupicke sklenikove (Stupicke for glasshouse)
unquote:
That "for glasshouse" and "early for glasshouse" catches my eye and forces me to ask if such a seed is available? And any details about it?
I would love to try it since I am a happy grower of stupice.

BTW, It was 57 degrees last night and 97 degrees with bright sunshine here today in 5000 foot Colorado. A GH, even in summer makes sense to me.
KennyP

[Tania]

Andrey,

I am very much in doubt that people who sell the seeds in Russian or Belarus really know what they are selling. They get the seeds from large seed distributors, and pass on the information they get from someplace else (if they get it at all). Russia, Ukraine and possibly other countries from the former USSR have been known for renaming many tomato varieties - this is a very common theme on the Russian gardening forums which I frequent or actively post at.

We also have seen many Russian varieties that were not consistent in their characteristics, including fruit size, leaf type, and even fruit color in some cases. It is way too much confusion out there for me to believe what they say one day and then change the story the other day.

I think the most likely version is that Moravskiy Div = Stupice (at least one of the Stupice strains).

Obviously no one can conclude anything with 100% accuracy without a DNA test, but this is my opinion based on what I know up to date.

Tania

[carolyn137]

Obviously no one can conclude anything with 100% accuracy without a DNA test, but this is my opinion based on what I know up to date.

******

Agree Tania.

When M. Sodomka brought what was called Stupice to Abundant Life, it was listed as such so for the two outdoor ones, there's no way to know which one it was, the rani or the rani pol one.

And if there wasn't some difference betyween those two, there wouldn't have been two listed as I see it.

Someone in a post above said that the pictures of the rani-pol one showed oblate fruits, which in my experience would be more likely to be associated with what might be Moravsky Div as opposed to the Stupike rani one, which I grew which was not oblate and the same as the Stupice I'd grown before.

And I alsoknow that the taste of Moravsky Div was not the same as the conventional ones out there or the Stupike rani one that I grew/ MD was far superior in taste which is why it realyy excited me as bein both tasty and early.

So as much as we look at the situation you're right, no way of knowing short of DNA testing which is which and/or what is what.



Someone above asked about the two glasshouse ones and I guess where seeds could be purchased, but I don't have an answer to that without Googling, and I do think that there are plenty of varieties that do well in greenhouses. One suggestion is to look at the varieties that both Stokes and Johnny's offers b'c there's a huge business in Canada for greenhosue grown varieties and those two places carry many different varieties of that kind.

[dice]

And I alsoknow that the taste of Moravsky Div was not the same as the conventional ones out there or the Stupike rani one that I grew. MD was far superior in taste which is why it really excited me as being both tasty and early.

I find a difference in flavor, too. The Stupice that I originally got from
Seeds of Change was both sweeter and milder flavored than Moravsky
Div. Many of the Stupice fruit also have a slightly pointed shape, like
Kimberley, while Moravsky Div has a fruit shape closer to Bloody Butcher
(irregular globes, no pointyness). And Moravsky Div is a little earlier to
ripen.

Are they closely related? That seems likely, given the "(Stupicke)"
notation on many of the seed packets from east of Czechoslovakia,
and the Moravsky Div name. What we know as "Moravsky Div" could
easily have been someone's selection from a row of Stupice as an
unusually early plant with slightly different flavor and fruit shape.
But that "(Stupicke)" notation also could have been added by a bulk
seed distibutor just to tell the customers what to expect in the way
of plant habit, fruit size, and DTM.

[coloken]

Originally Posted by carolyn137

Obviously no one can conclude anything with 100% accuracy without a DNA test, but this is my opinion based on what I know up to date.

******



Someone above asked about the two glasshouse ones and I guess where seeds could be purchased, but I don't have an answer to that without Googling, and I do think that there are plenty of varieties that do well in greenhouses. One suggestion is to look at the varieties that both Stokes and Johnny's offers b'c there's a huge business in Canada for greenhosue grown varieties and those two places carry many different varieties of that kind.

Thanks Carolyn, That 40 cents to a dollar a seed for small quantity doesn't scare me to much-too much. I am disabled like you and a bit older, coupled with the short growing season here is Colorado, along with the fact that the wind was over 20 MPH every day the first half of June. This makes me think my little green house will keep me happy for a few more years. The ones I am growing just don't like small containers.
KennyP

[carolyn137]

Originally Posted by coloken

Thanks Carolyn, That 40 cents to a dollar a seed for small quantity doesn't scare me to much-too much. I am disabled like you and a bit older, coupled with the short growing season here is Colorado, along with the fact that the wind was over 20 MPH every day the first half of June. This makes me think my little green house will keep me happy for a few more years. The ones I am growing just don't like small containers.
KennyP

OK, so check out Pinetree seeds for their sampler packs and they too carry greenhouse varieties.

I know Colorado. Lived there for quite a few years teaching at the med school at Colorado and 8th. Lived one block below the 17th ave pky and one block west of Monaco.

But know other areas as well.

Roughly where do you live and garden? Just curious. And I don't miss the winds from the north from the Montfort feed lots, except where I live now you have to sign something saying that the smells and slow moving farm equipment on the roads have the right of it. This is dairy country where I am now and manure is the smell of money.

[coloken]

Originally Posted by carolyn137

OK, so check out Pinetree seeds for their sampler packs and they too carry greenhouse varieties.

I know Colorado. Lived there for quite a few years teaching at the med school at Colorado and 8th. Lived one block below the 17th ave pky and one block west of Monaco.

But know other areas as well.

Roughly where do you live and garden? Just curious. And I don't miss the winds from the north from the Montfort feed lots, except where I live now you have to sign something saying that the smells and slow moving farm equipment on the roads have the right of it. This is dairy country where I am now and manure is the smell of money.

Born and raised in the North East corner (Grover) dry land farm (wheat)and cattle. Lived in Kersey (east of Greeley till this January when I moved to LaSalle ( South of Greeley) with no place for garden except a couple of raised beds. I know genetics of cattle quite well, but that doesn't do much good with tomatoes. You keep coming up with complicated exceptions to the simple rules.
BTW from Colorado Springs to North of Fort Collins and 50 miles East of the mountain is all most solid housing now. Us old county boys hate to see it. Californians go home.
BTW,I think you should build you a little green house connected to your house that you could access in a wheel chair--for your old age.

[barkeater]

[QUOTE=travis;224727] Determinates put out a new blossom cluster ever other internode, or every second internode after the first set. Indeterminates have 3 or more internodes between blossom clusters. This holds true for side shoots as well. The side shoot is no different than a main stem.

Travis, I checked my Danko which is determinate and it also has 3 internodes then flowers. My Ramapo, a known semi determinate also has 3 and flowers. My Moravsky Div has 3 branches then flowers and is mature at 2 feet - It is as determinate as can be.

I find nothing on the internet that can confirm that determinates only have 1-2 branches between flower clusters after the first one. Do you have a source you can cite? Thanks.

[DiggingDogFarm]

Well, for what it's worth, I did get a response from Moravoseed......

"Dear Mr. Martin _______,

We can offer you tomato vareties Moravské Div (this vareties is good for hobby market)

in our sortiment are next good vareties.

for profesional market
fruit weight
Pedro F1 100 g
Ateron F1 120g
Hardy F1 200 g
Palava F1 180 g

description are on our web site or I can send by e-mail too.


Have a nice day
With best regards

Martin Kielar
sales department

Moravoseed, spol. s r.o.
tel. : +420 519 510 252; 324
fax : +420 519 510 945
email : mseed@moravoseed.cz
www.moravoseed.cz"

???

[dice]

We can offer you tomato vareties Moravské Div (this vareties is good for hobby market)

So they have it, but they are not saying who developed it, and they
are really more interested in larger sales to large commercial operations
than in small sales to home gardeners.

[DiggingDogFarm]

Originally Posted by dice

So they have it, but they are not saying who developed it, and they
are really more interested in larger sales to large commercial operations
than in small sales to home gardeners.

I sent am email asking him to clarify what variety/varieties is/are Moravské Div.

[dice]

Moravoseed would probably list it in a catalog for seed resellers,
where they could sell seed of it in quantities similar to the quantities
that they sell of F1 seeds to commercial producers. The resellers
would repackage it for the home garden market, store racks, etc.