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Old January 5, 2011   #61
rnewste
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Well, back from vacation today, and the Dona plant has really grown.

For reference, here it was on Dec 16:




And today, Jan 5:





I am going to raise the HPS light up 4 inches later today.

Raybo
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Old January 5, 2011   #62
MJACTIVIST
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WOW, that’s quite a bit of stretch. She is really reaching for that light. It's fine thou, looks like its gonna be ok. I would make sure your netting is really secure b/c it doesn’t look like your stalk will be strong enough to hold up fully ripe fruit. But, I can’t truly tell from pictures.
If you continue to raise your light up, your only gonna make it stretch more. If you want to raise the light up you’ll need a more powerful light. By raising it up you’re increasing the distance between the canopy and the bulb. Which make the lumens travel farther and the light less effective.
How are the others height?
It didn't look like the rest had stretched like that Dona did. The only way to prevent stretch is to lower the light. You want your light to be as close to the canopy without burning it. Get the light as close to the tallest plant without burning it. Or switch to a more intense HPS 600w or 1000w.
Hope this helps
L8
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Old January 5, 2011   #63
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MJ,

The Dona plant had a good root system when planted on Dec 15. Unfortunately, most of the other plants did not, or were actually cuttings from my outdoor plants made on that same day and just stuck in to Grow Media. You can see a N.A.R.X plant right behind the Dona, and that one has grown about 8 inches since planting. It had a modest root ball.

I am running the 400W HPS at just 250W currently, as this mode seems to be giving off an intense amount of light (well, at least for my inexperienced eyes). So you are recommending keeping the light low to the tops of the plants? The radiation angle now is "clipping" the top of the Dona whereby the upper 6 inches is outside the illumination pattern. That is why I was about to raise the light 4 inches.

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Old January 6, 2011   #64
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Yea that’s a problem with your setup. When using the smaller less expensive hoods and bulbs its harder to cover your entire canopy. And I'm almost positive that the hood and ballast you’re using are combined together. So you can't buy a new hood and use your old ballast. Most of the bigger models you have to get ballast, hood, and bulb all separate. But this allows you to get the proper hood for your space and crop.

If getting a more intense light is out of the question, the only thing I could suggest to do is maybe making another cutting from the shoot that is getting too tall.
But if you keep raising your light it will only persuade more stretching.
L8
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Old January 6, 2011   #65
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You might could top the plants to encourage lateral growth, or LST the plant. LST is low stress training basically you tie down the branches so they grow horizontal instead of vertical. so in your cause you would train the plants to grow across the netting instead of vertical.

As for topping tomatoes tend to concentrate a lot of its growth hormones in the upper growing tips, By topping the plants the remaining lateral growth tips will recieve more of the plants GH and it will bush out more.

You could also do both methods, top the plants and the new growth LST it to keep the plant shorter and more compact. with LST you can train them so they also allow more light to fall on a greater amount of the plants.
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Old January 6, 2011   #66
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Stepheninky-
I'm assuming that he is gonna use the SCROG technique. I've never seen it done with tomatoes but I think it will work fine. Once the canopy reaches the first netting he'll start weaving the plants thru the netting. After it grows back thru the netting he'll weave it again. Until the whole bottom netting is filled up. Then he'll remove all the foliage under the netting. This will allow all the plants to get even lighting and also will help support them.
L8
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Old January 6, 2011   #67
rnewste
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MJACTIVIST View Post
Stepheninky-
I'm assuming that he is gonna use the SCROG technique. I've never seen it done with tomatoes but I think it will work fine. Once the canopy reaches the first netting he'll start weaving the plants thru the netting. After it grows back thru the netting he'll weave it again. Until the whole bottom netting is filled up. Then he'll remove all the foliage under the netting. This will allow all the plants to get even lighting and also will help support them.
L8
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Wow!! I just learned something new: SCROG technique...

Actually, I am not that smart to have planned for this. I was hoping the netting would simply support the plant vines, as I could not figure out how to mount rigid tomato cages in the InnTainers. Is there a link (or any pictures) to see this process? I remember a P. Allan Smith video where he had trained Pear branches on a wooden truss to grow horizontally, but I had actually never even thought about this technique for tomatoes.

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Old January 6, 2011   #68
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Ray you don't need pics. Let the tops grow about 2 to 3 inches thru the first netting then bend them and put them thru the netting again. Let them find the light again and grow back up thru the netting and do it again.

This will work for a winter, but its not a good technique to do keep these plants alive for multiple seasons. Using this technique on tomatoes for a long period of time isn't a good idea. This technique was designed for photoperiodic plants.

If you need pics just pm me.
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Old January 6, 2011   #69
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MJ,

Thanks, now I understand the "weave" technique. Actually, this whole thing is a "science project", just to see what would happen to indoor growing of tomatoes during the Winter.

The 2 inch mesh netting is intended as a matrix for the vines to climb through. I was planning on using this in the outdoor EarthTainer 3 design with the new removable cage this Spring, and I wanted to see how well the tomato vines grew through the netting. Initial impressions are that I may need a bigger mesh like 4 inches, for the netting to not inhibit normal plant growth. In any event, I will let the natural course of growth happen here to see if the vines do actually work their way through the 2 inch openings and grow on to the next level of netting. Finding larger mesh in the 3.5 to 4.0 inch range is difficult.

Raybo
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Old January 13, 2011   #70
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Update a week following the previous photo set. Robust growth continues:





Dona (on the left) continues as the growth leader, although the N.A.R.X. on the right is catching up.



Black & Brown Boar as well as Pink Boar are developing thick stalks. More next week.

p.s. The seedlings also are liking the peripheral lighting.

Raybo
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Old January 13, 2011   #71
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Yo ray, I would add a little silica to help develop them nice thick stalks. Silicon is not considered to be an essential nutrient for most terrestrial plants, it is beneficial to many plants. Si has the potential to significantly decrease the susceptibility of certain plants to both biotic and abiotic diseases. Si protects the plants against pathogens, such as pythium, fungal spores, aphids, sucking insects and powdery mildew. Apart from directly resisting plant infections, silicon stimulates creation of other disease resistant elements, such as polyphenolic compounds. Also, Si fertilization can even increase growth and yield in addition to reducing disease severity.
L8
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Old January 13, 2011   #72
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MJ,

I just remembered I had bought a gallon of something called Pro-Tekt by Dyna Grow. I had stored it away for use in the Spring. I am assuming this is what you would recommend adding?

I have been also adding in Roots Excelurator at each watering.



Will these two treatments be compatible?

Raybo
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Old January 13, 2011   #73
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Yes you can use them together. There won’t be any problems.

Suggested rates are 2.5-5ml of pro-tekt per gallon.

I used to use pro-tekt but I've switched to a product called Bloom Silica. Bloom Silica is 53.2% silica I only have use about 0.2-0.6ml a gallon. The best idea with silica products is to use them as a ph up product. Most plants like a ph of 5.8-6.0. Never allow your ph to get above 6.5 or calcium will become unavailable.

Also if you see a cloudiness to the water as you add the pro-tekt its calcium precipitating out of your solution. If this happens you'll need to add the pro-tekt then check its ph and if its high add ph down till its close to 5.8 and then add the rest of your nutes.
L8
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Old January 20, 2011   #74
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Here is the weekly update Jan 20:



Continuing to add a diluted amount of Roots Excelurant with each watering:

The NARX in the background is now overtaking the Dona in the foregrouund:



Stems on the Black & Brown Boar are really thickening up:



I have potted up the 54 seedlings started Jan 5:



And I'm using the peripheral lighting from the HPS to supplement outside sunshine:



I need to make some decisions on top cutting the 3 plants that are growing (too) rapidly, to try to keep all 12 in proximity.

Raybo
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Old January 20, 2011   #75
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Looking good Ray.
They're all growns up! LOL

Have you noticed any difference in growth rates before and after with Roots Excell?

If your gonna top them I would do it around that second netting. And if you have to tie some limbs down.
L8
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