One of The Top Dogs in Fungicides and it's Not Cheap

[amideutch]

Dewayne, here is a link to the product I use. Ami

http://www.neudorff.de/produkte/kata...-pilzfrei.html

[John3]

Dewayne copy and paste the url into google search
http://www.neudorff.de/produkte/kata...-pilzfrei.html
then do a search then go to google translate and it will translate the url into English (not the greatest translation but readable)

[Dewayne mater]

Thanks Ami! John - thanks...I have google chrome set up to translate automatically! For grins I tried order it, but, this web site sends you only to local distributors! Wonder if any company would/could ship it? It would substantially cheaper to buy and ship internationally than to buy a gallon of the stuff over hear for $340!

Dewayne mater

[babice]

I perused that site and found a few things. I did try to find Neudorff® Fungisan® (product ami's been discussing) in the U.S. and only found the "Fungisan" that is listed as a fungicidal spray for animals (main ingredient not the same). Here's a few other sites (among many) selling this product but am not sure they'd ship it to the U.S.

http://www.growland-hydroponics.com/...6-ml-Flasche_1

http://www.growhome.de/en/Plant-prot...agent-for.html

Out of curiousity, though, I also noticed another product listed there named Cueva® AF-Free Tomato-Mushroom (name roughly translated to English by Google). It caught my attention because it says: "environmentally friendly due to reduced amount of copper" and "not toxic to bees". It's main ingredient is copper octanoate, which I guess is safer than other copper containing products. I started searching and found:

(1) Neudorff® does have a North American website: http://www.neudorff.com/index.php?id=157 The info there isn't plentiful but there's a FAQ page in which they recommend Lilly Miller's Cueva Copper Soap. Now, the Lilly Miller product is listed in this website: http://www.centralgarden.com/brands/...12ea-24oz.html but I'm still not sure if you can actually buy it (there's no price listed).

(2) The attached PDF states this Cueva controls Anthracnose, Bacterial speck, Bacterial spot, Cercospora leaf spot, Early blight, Gray mold, Late blight, Leaf mold, Septoria leaf spot in tomatoes.

I'm not sure I would run out and buy this or anything because I don't know anything about it but I thought you folks might be interested in reading about it. I'm also attaching a paper by Certis that discuss Cueva (among others) as now being approved by the USDA. Again - just for some light reading.

(hope I fixed the font problems)

[John3]

Originally Posted by babice

(1) Neudorff® does have a North American website: http://www.neudorff.com/index.php?id=157 The info there isn't plentiful but there's a FAQ page in which they recommend Lilly Miller's Cueva Copper Soap. Now, the Lilly Miller product is listed in this website: http://www.centralgarden.com/brands/...12ea-24oz.html but I'm still not sure if you can actually buy it (there's no price listed).

I don't know if this is the product or not but found it on Amazon
http://www.amazon.com/Lilly-Miller-1...5&sr=8-2-fkmr0

[RayR]

Copper Octanoate (Copper Soap) fungicides have been available in the U.S. for years, I think all distributed under license from Neudorff. Besides Lilly Miller's Cueva Copper Soap, Bonide Liquid Copper Fungicide, Gardens Alive! Soap Shield, Ortho® elementals™ Garden Disease Control, E.B. Stone™ Copper Soap Concentrate and Concern Copper Soap Fungicide are other examples. There might be more.

None have anything to do with Azoxystrobin

[amideutch]

I did e-mail the folks at their (Neudorff) North American website and no joy. It looks like Syngenta has a lock on Azoxystrobin products in North America. Ami

[babice]

Originally Posted by RayR

Copper Octanoate (Copper Soap) fungicides have been available in the U.S. for years, I think all distributed under license from Neudorff. Besides Lilly Miller's Cueva Copper Soap, Bonide Liquid Copper Fungicide, Gardens Alive! Soap Shield, Ortho® elementals™ Garden Disease Control, E.B. Stone™ Copper Soap Concentrate and Concern Copper Soap Fungicide are other examples. There might be more.

None have anything to do with Azoxystrobin

Yep - has nothing to do with the Azoxystrobin this thread's been discussing. But, I just thought it was interesting. And I was kinda hoping that maybe finding the licensees in the U.S. who can manufacture the Cueva would also be licensed to do the same with the Azoxystrobin for Nuedorff but I guess not since they told ami that Syngenta has the lock on that.

Yes, Bonide is one of the other company brands recommended in Neudorff's FAQ section. Their Liquid Copper Fungicide you mention specifically says that it contains Cueva fungicide concentrate by Nuedorff and that they are licensed by Nuedorff to manufacture it.

So, RayR - all of those products have the (supposedly safer) copper octanoate? Do you agree that is safer than any other kind of copper products or is that marketing hype?

[babice]

p.s. the reason I'd like you experts' opinion on the copper soap and it's safety is because I know I'm going to need to start disease control immediately as I plant out the toms because I have already noticed spots on some of my flowers...just this morning, for example, on the Zinnia babies I grew from seed and have on my porch to harden off. We've had an awful lot of humidiy.

My plan is to use the Actinovate/ExelLG foliar one week and am trying to decide if the copper soap is safe to use the next week. I have no desire to kill any bennies as most everything else I'm planting is with the intention of attracting bennies.

[RayR]

babice, I have used Copper Octanoate fungicide a few years ago to combat serious Septoria outbreaks I was having for a few years previous, Copper Soap works in 2 ways, it is a preventative, when dry on the leaves it sticks to the surface and even rain will take a long time to wear it off. It can also kill an active fungal infection, it was very effective in killing Septoria and Early Blight for me and at least slowed the spread Septoria down considerably. I'll attest to its effectiveness as a way to help defeat a persistent problem like Septoria whose spores can overwinter on plant debris on the soil even in cold climates. I haven't used it in the last couple seasons as I have switched to biological solutions and I haven't any serious reoccurrence of Septoria. So far so good, we'll see what happens this year.

Here's the downside to using Copper, it is an indiscriminate killer, it will kill bacteria as well as fungus, so don't use it if you are using biologicals like Actinovate, Serenade ect...

[amideutch]

Here's the downside to using Copper, it is an indiscriminate killer, it will kill bacteria as well as fungus, so don't use it if you are using biologicals like Actinovate, Serenade ect...

Plus the good guys residing in the soil. Ami

[babice]

Thanks Rayr and ami! I am so glad you alerted me to this because I don't want to kill the good guys in the soil either! Do you think Neem Oil is a good choice for the interval week? Actinovate/ExelLG one week and then Neem Oil the next week? What's a good organic alternative (without spending the big bucks on Azoxystrobin)? Or maybe the Cornell Formula?

[RayR]

Originally Posted by babice

Thanks Rayr and ami! I am so glad you alerted me to this because I don't want to kill the good guys in the soil either! Do you think Neem Oil is a good choice for the interval week? Actinovate/ExelLG one week and then Neem Oil the next week? What's a good organic alternative (without spending the big bucks on Azoxystrobin)? Or maybe the Cornell Formula?

Neem Oil worked pretty well for Powdery Mildew on squash, I don't know how effective it is for Tomato fungal pathogens. I've never used the so-called Cornell Formula.
I'd rather keep it simple myself, then try to mix alternate applications of various treatments and have no idea what is actually effective or not.
This year I'll be using ExcelLG and Actinovate, I'm also a big fan of liquid Fish and/or Seaweed and molasses added to the foliar mix.
There's only one other product called BIOWISH-CROP that I'm am going to experiment with this year as I had promising results with last year as an anti-fungal on Tomato plants. Their technology is based on 3 bacteria, Pediococcus pentosaceus Mees, Pediococcus acidilactici & Bacillus subtilis and 2 yeast, Dekkera anomala & Pichia farinosa.

[babice]

Thanks so much for sharing this RayR!

[mud puppy]

Originally Posted by RayR

What could be better than a fungus that creates a chemical compound that kills invading fungus's?

The question that comes to mind for me is wether the expanded use of that chemical will encourage fungi that become resistant thereby becoming able to move into the mushrooms present domain. Likely not but.... I like mushrooms too.

To isolate the chemicals in other fungi and bacteria that protect their colonies must be fascinating work. And with the development of something like this, rewarding too.