Tomatoville® Gardening Forums


Notices

Have a favorite recipe that's always a hit with family and friends? Share it with us!

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old November 29, 2015   #1
Worth1
Tomatovillian™
 
Worth1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: 25 miles southeast of Waterloo Texas.
Posts: 36,525
Default All Natural Bacon Myth.

I am going to put this in this section and I hope people read it.
It is about products going around saying all natural uncured bacon.
It will say all natural no nitrites or nitrates added with an asterisk.
What this people are doing is ripping you off.
Here is what the USDA is requiring at this time and for some part good reason.
If the bacon hasn't had added nitrites to it it cannot be called cured.
So the folks have to say it is uncured.
Guys this is a complete and total lie being shoved onto the public and it is at this time legal.
If you look at the ingredients it will have celery powder or juice added.
Well guess what this is where they are getting the preservatives and you guessed it nitrites or nitrates.
If it is nitrates it breaks down into nitrites.
All plants have this in them so you aren't going to get away from it.
Then there is the big deal about this stuff causing cancer well this isn't correct either.
If it were vegetarians would be dying by the droves.
Think about it the next time you juice your vegetables like beets and celery in the morning.
You have just consumed enough to cure a big chunk of meat.
What does cause cancer is something called Nitrosamines.
This happens when nitrites are heated to an very hot temperature like burning cured meat.

I used to cure meat with potassium nitrate and had to buy it from the drug store.
It is very poisonous in its pure form.
Now I use a product call Insta cure # 1 and #2.

What does this stuff do for us.
It kills bacteria including botulism.
This is what allows us to be able to hang meat and smoke it without getting sick.
The other way is to use salt and dry the meat out but you have to have your game on to do it.
Without the moisture the bacteria cant grow and the salt will dry out the bacteria.
The old recipes for making some types of uncooked sausage call for wine.
The wine makes the meat acidic to kill the bacteria.
Sausage is a perfect environment for botulism to grow.
Again you have to have your game on or dont even try it.

Here is a word of advice while we are on smoking.
One of the worst products they ever sold was the big turkey smoker.
Not to say it doesn't wok but people misuse them due to ignorance.
here is what can happen.
You dont know a thing about preservatives and smoking meat.
You go out and buy a turkey or some other chunk of meat and it is crawling with lord knows what.
You put the thing in the smoker and let it smoke for several hours if not days.
(My father in law did this and I wouldn't eat the thing.)
If you are smoking at a low enough and true smoking temperature the inside of the meat and bones will spoil before it is cooked.
Now back to Bacon.
If you are spending a ton of money on this all natural uncured bacon you are being hoodwinked.
I have read that soon the USDA is going to change the rules and the bacon will say cured.
Just read the label on this stuff the next time you see it.

Worth
__________________
Happy Fermenting.
I Texas.
I came into this life with a backbone and I'll leave it with one.
Worth
Worth1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 29, 2015   #2
RJGlew
Tomatovillian™
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Alberta, Canada
Posts: 492
Default

I would guess a re-invention of a healthier seeming product is necessary now the cancer link associated with the original has been broadly disseminated.
RJGlew is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 29, 2015   #3
ChrisK
Tomatovillian™
 
ChrisK's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Raleigh, NC
Posts: 1,448
Default

Any tips on smoking a whole chicken? I've got one going right now. I try to maintain temp at ~250 F for a couple of hours (maybe an hour per pound or so) or until internal temp is 165 F.
__________________
Blog: chriskafer.wordpress.com

Ignorance more frequently begets knowledge: it is those who know little, and not those who know much, who so positively assert that this or that problem will never be solved by science. --Charles Darwin
ChrisK is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 29, 2015   #4
Worth1
Tomatovillian™
 
Worth1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: 25 miles southeast of Waterloo Texas.
Posts: 36,525
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisK View Post
Any tips on smoking a whole chicken? I've got one going right now. I try to maintain temp at ~250 F for a couple of hours (maybe an hour per pound or so) or until internal temp is 165 F.
ChrisK I bought a book on smoking and curing many years ago that explained everything in a scientific manner so you wouldn't end up getting sick.
It is called, Great Sausage Recipes and Meat Curing by Rytec Kutas.
The man passed away a while back but his company lives on.

To properly smoke a whole chicken at lower temperatures it has to be cured.
Smoking at 225 to 250 is what I call smoke raosting.
If you want the meat to be ham like, like you see the smoked turkeys in the store they cure it.

Here is a recipe right out of the book for a smoked turkey.
The most important thing is to have the water over the bird.
5 gallons of water.
1 1/2 pounds of powdered dextrose. (I use brown sugar)
2 pounds of salt.
1 pound of Insta cure #1.(it used to be called Prague powder.

Cover pickle method.
Dissolve all ingredients in water chilled to 38 to 40 degrees F.
Be sure you have washed the cavity of the turkey very well and that the turkey is 38 to 40 degrees F before placing into the brine.
Turkey should be submerged in brine for at least 4 days at 38 to 40 degrees F.
A larger turkey will take about 5 days to cure.

Spray pump method.
Dissolve all ingredients in water chilled to 38 to 40 degrees F.
Pump the turkey with curing solution using 10 percent of the weight of the turkey (20 pound turkey-pump with 2 pounds of brine).
After pumping place the turkey in ice cold water for at least 3 hours.
Remove the turkey from the ice cold water and place in cove pickle at 38 to 40 F and allow to cure for 48 hours.

Smoking.
After turkey is cured wash very well with cold water and place into a preheated smoker at 130 degrees F.
Smoke at this temperature for at least one hour with the damper wide open.
Close damper to 1/4 open and apply smoke for 5 hours at 130 degrees F.
Raise temperature to 140 degrees F and hold for 4 hours.
Finally raise temperature to 165 degrees F and hold until an internal temperature of 152 F is obtained.
Use a dial meat thermometer, inserting the stem as close to the ball socket joint of the thigh, as this seems to be the last place the meat becomes thoroughly cooked.
Remove from the smoker and the meat thermometer drop to about 100 degrees F before placing into the cooler.

Smoked turkey is a perishable product and should be kept under refrigeration at all times.

Well there you have it.
It sounds complicated but it isn't, you could easily convert this to a chicken and do the same thing.
I find some of this guys stuff is way salty and have learned to adjust a few things like adding sugar and so on.
There is also a product called Morton's Tender quick that works very well but be warned it is salty to and you will need to add sugar to kill the harsh taste of the salt.

After you fool around with some cheap chickens you will get the hang of it and start producing some really good stuff.

Worth
__________________
Happy Fermenting.
I Texas.
I came into this life with a backbone and I'll leave it with one.
Worth
Worth1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 29, 2015   #5
ChrisK
Tomatovillian™
 
ChrisK's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Raleigh, NC
Posts: 1,448
Default

Thanks for the info! Yeah, I guess what I do is not really smoking, at my temps (which should be plenty hot quick enough to kill anything...) and I don't cure the meat, guess it's more like slow BBQ. Sure tastes good! Lump charcoal with some peach wood from I tree I cut down a few years ago is what I'm using today. Salmon with cherry wood is on the agenda for next weekend.
__________________
Blog: chriskafer.wordpress.com

Ignorance more frequently begets knowledge: it is those who know little, and not those who know much, who so positively assert that this or that problem will never be solved by science. --Charles Darwin
ChrisK is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 29, 2015   #6
whistech
Tomatovillian™
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Between The Woodlands and Spring, Texas
Posts: 545
Default

Worth, please reread your post above. That's way too much cure. In 5 gallons of water, 5 tablespoons of cure 1 is the right amount.

Last edited by whistech; November 29, 2015 at 05:34 PM.
whistech is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 29, 2015   #7
Worth1
Tomatovillian™
 
Worth1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: 25 miles southeast of Waterloo Texas.
Posts: 36,525
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by whistech View Post
Worth, please reread your post above. That's way too much cure. In 5 gallons of water, 5 tablespoons of cure 1 is the right amount.
That came right out of the book so help me I had to read it twice.
Even tender quick calls for a ton of it.

The James Beard foundation calls for 1/2 cup insta cure 1 for 2 gallons.

I use two level teaspoons for every 10 pounds of ground meat.
This is the standard.



Worth
__________________
Happy Fermenting.
I Texas.
I came into this life with a backbone and I'll leave it with one.
Worth

Last edited by Worth1; November 29, 2015 at 06:02 PM.
Worth1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 25, 2016   #8
bower
Tomatovillian™
 
bower's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Newfoundland, Canada
Posts: 6,083
Default

I have a comment to make about the "natural" bacon.
I bought a product made from naturally raised pigs ("free from" = no antibiotics etc) and 'naturally smoked' - I didn't read all the label so I don't know the details or what was actually added. It was for a pizza topping for my friend's birthday party - she's an organic farmer and does appreciate organic or natural products especially.

Anyway my comment is just... man, did I get burned!
The fat from this bacon was firing off like nothing else. I got a couple of bad burns on my wrist and even my eyelid got it! TG for reflexes I obviously blinked as the hot fat came straight for my eye. I can still feel the raised burn there two weeks later and the burnt skin just came off my wrist today.

All I can say is that the moisture content of the bacon was obviously higher than any other bacon I have used. It was a real hazard. Handle with care!
bower is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 26, 2016   #9
MendozaMark
Tomatovillian™
 
MendozaMark's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: Yarmouth,NS Canada
Posts: 296
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by bower View Post
I have a comment to make about the "natural" bacon.
I bought a product made from naturally raised pigs ("free from" = no antibiotics etc) and 'naturally smoked' - I didn't read all the label so I don't know the details or what was actually added. It was for a pizza topping for my friend's birthday party - she's an organic farmer and does appreciate organic or natural products especially.

Anyway my comment is just... man, did I get burned!
The fat from this bacon was firing off like nothing else. I got a couple of bad burns on my wrist and even my eyelid got it! TG for reflexes I obviously blinked as the hot fat came straight for my eye. I can still feel the raised burn there two weeks later and the burnt skin just came off my wrist today.

All I can say is that the moisture content of the bacon was obviously higher than any other bacon I have used. It was a real hazard. Handle with care!
Bacon, not recommended for nudist
MendozaMark is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 26, 2016   #10
bower
Tomatovillian™
 
bower's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Newfoundland, Canada
Posts: 6,083
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by MendozaMark View Post
Bacon, not recommended for nudist
Full armor, recommended. Visors down.
Or biker leathers. Or a hazmat suit.
bower is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 26, 2016   #11
Worth1
Tomatovillian™
 
Worth1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: 25 miles southeast of Waterloo Texas.
Posts: 36,525
Default

I must say I didn't know anything about it until I saw them make corned beef on the some TV cooking show with celery juice in a restaurant.
Before I was baffled as to how they made the bacon.
My wife was making me buy it and it didn't taste like just plain old salt cured bacon.

Just using salt to cure meat is a dangerous way to do it unless you do it right and take care in what you do.
I do it sometimes as well as a few other people here but it is our butts on the line and we do it right.
Some of the most expensive hams in the world are just salt cured and hung up to dry for months.
I dont see this type of care and pride going hand in hand with mass produced products.
The people that did our hog butchering smoking and curing were Spanish.
Not Mexico Spanish but from Spain.
No FDA permits or any certifications no inspections what so ever.
This is how honest and caring they were.
One time they called and told us they(think) they may have ruined our hog and wanted us to come over and pick out one of their live hogs to replace it.
Their son was my age and we were very good friends in grade school, one of the few he had.
He wasn't a bad kid he was just Spanish, catholic and had a strange sounding name so the kids in school stayed away from him even though he was blonde haired and blue eyed.
This was in Missouri.
Worth
__________________
Happy Fermenting.
I Texas.
I came into this life with a backbone and I'll leave it with one.
Worth
Worth1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 18, 2016   #12
Worth1
Tomatovillian™
 
Worth1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: 25 miles southeast of Waterloo Texas.
Posts: 36,525
Default

Ran across some more of this so called (not cured) bacon at the store the other day.
Cant remember what it was but low and behold in the ingredients was celery powder.
It was as high as a cats back too.

Worth
__________________
Happy Fermenting.
I Texas.
I came into this life with a backbone and I'll leave it with one.
Worth
Worth1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 18, 2016   #13
whistech
Tomatovillian™
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Between The Woodlands and Spring, Texas
Posts: 545
Default

Celery powder they use in the so called "natural" bacon has a whole lot more nitrate in it than reqular bacon. Regular store bought bacon, is cured with sodium nitrite, which breaks down into nitric oxide when heated. Notice that I spelled correctly nitrite. It is not the the same as sodium nitrate. Sodium nitrate is normally used to cure meat that will be cured over a long period of time and eaten raw.
__________________
Arlie

Last edited by whistech; December 18, 2016 at 08:09 PM.
whistech is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 18, 2016   #14
Worth1
Tomatovillian™
 
Worth1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: 25 miles southeast of Waterloo Texas.
Posts: 36,525
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by whistech View Post
Celery power they use in the so called "natural" bacon has a whole lot more nitrate in it than reqular bacon. Regular store bought bacon, is cured with sodium nitrite, which breaks down into nitric oxide when heated. Notice that I spelled correctly nitrite. It is not the the same as sodium nitrate. Sodium nitrate is normally used to cure meat that will be cured over a long period of time and eaten raw.

If memory serves me correctly nitrate break down into nitrites or something of the effect.
what ever the case may be I looked this up before and the whole thing is a hoax Allowed by the FDA or USDA or what ever.
People are unsuspectingly buying what they think they aren't.

I just looked on my cure #1 and #2.
#1 has nitrite for now and #2 has nitrite for now and #2 to break down to nitrite later for the long haul.
The celery powder has nitrites so they claim the bacon has no nitrates.

Plus they say the celery powder has antioxidants to keep Nitrosamines in check.
This is hog wash you have to heat cured meat to the burned level for that change to happen.
Then an amount that is over the top.
Plus you can as I do add them yourself.
It is called fruit fresh.

For the life of me I dont know why this ticks me off so much.
I am almost ready to hang signs in front of the stuff.

Something like.

All Natural Bacon Legal Fraud And Here Is Why.

Worth
__________________
Happy Fermenting.
I Texas.
I came into this life with a backbone and I'll leave it with one.
Worth
Worth1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 19, 2016   #15
pmcgrady
Tomatovillian™
 
pmcgrady's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Central Illinois
Posts: 1,834
Default Sonoma Sausage Co

Me and a hunting buddy are getting ready to make deer burger, bratwurst, maple breakfast links and some type of hard salami this week. The best website for formulations that I have found is:
lpoli.50webs.com or type in Sonoma Sausage Co in Google. I have spent hours reading
there, very informative!
I buy all my supplies (cures/spices/casings) from sausagemaker.com
pmcgrady is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 08:08 PM.


★ Tomatoville® is a registered trademark of Commerce Holdings, LLC ★ All Content ©2019 Commerce Holdings, LLC ★