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New to growing your own tomatoes? This is the forum to learn the successful techniques used by seasoned tomato growers. Questions are welcome, too.

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Old April 22, 2018   #46
Dutch
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I see four likely problems but I need more input.
Do you have year round house plants in the house?
If so is your heating system forced air or use fan(s) to circulates the air?
How humid is your house inside?
Dutch
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Old April 22, 2018   #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dutch View Post
I see four likely problems but I need more input.
Do you have year round house plants in the house?
If so is your heating system forced air or use fan(s) to circulates the air?
How humid is your house inside?
Dutch
Thanks for the links Dutch, I dug around their photos/descriptions with no success yet, I'll make another round tomorrow.

I don't have any house plants year round, just one rosemary that winters on the floor below before heading back out. This one is in a pretty good shape.

Heating is electric planks. Humidity wise, it's humid as the room is small and because it's been so cold the window has been closed until yesterday. So I definitely get a D for air circulation in the room
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Old April 22, 2018   #48
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My guess and this is only a guess is that you have house plants. Many times these plants can be carriers of plant diseases and show no sign of the disease. The same can be said about the soil the house plants are grown in and the insects they host. In a forced air heating system, mites which are almost microscopic, can get dispersed throughout the entire house. These mites can carry with them fungal and bacterial diseases.

Another guess is that if you look at the bottom roots yours are not white. They are likely tan. If they are tan this is a fungal disease caused by wet roots. Same as would happens to you if your feet were wet like that. There is damp-off disease at the soil line too. Darrel (Fusion_power) has stated dozens of times don't water your plants until you see them wilt. They will tell you (wilt/bow) when they need water.

I think the leave disease is just a small piece of the puzzle and is probably a secondary problem. I do see small black spots in some of the pictures that might an insect and could be a carrier of whatever is infecting the leaves.

In closing I hope the potting soil you are using is not the moisture control stuff. The Miracle-Gro in the yellow/green bag in the right stuff. The Miracle-Gro in the blue/green bag is the moisture control stuff and does work well for growing vegetable seedlings because it doesn't cycle correctly from wet to dry.
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Last edited by Dutch; April 22, 2018 at 11:23 PM. Reason: Added Info
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Old April 23, 2018   #49
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Originally Posted by Dutch View Post
My guess and this is only a guess is that you have house plants. Many times these plants can be carriers of plant diseases and show no sign of the disease. The same can be said about the soil the house plants are grown in and the insects they host. In a forced air heating system, mites which are almost microscopic, can get dispersed throughout the entire house. These mites can carry with them fungal and bacterial diseases.

Another guess is that if you look at the bottom roots yours are not white. They are likely tan. If they are tan this is a fungal disease caused by wet roots. Same as would happens to you if your feet were wet like that. There is damp-off disease at the soil line too. Darrel (Fusion_power) has stated dozens of times don't water your plants until you see them wilt. They will tell you (wilt/bow) when they need water.

I think the leave disease is just a small piece of the puzzle and is probably a secondary problem. I do see small black spots in some of the pictures that might an insect and could be a carrier of whatever is infecting the leaves.

In closing I hope the potting soil you are using is not the moisture control stuff. The Miracle-Gro in the yellow/green bag in the right stuff. The Miracle-Gro in the blue/green bag is the moisture control stuff and does work well for growing vegetable seedlings because it doesn't cycle correctly from wet to dry.
Dutch
Dutch, I don't have central air and the only indoor plant is on a lower level, highly unlikely for spores to make it to the upper level. I used the yellow MiracleGro bag.

I woke up early today and sat there thinking, toured all the windows of each room on that level and in one room I found what I believe to be black mold on the base of a window.

My theory is that spores from this black mold ended up hitting my plants in the room facing it. Black mold = fungus = condensation = humidity = ease of travel for spores.

I'm thinking the reason no site has pictures of diseased tomato plant leaves similar to mine is that it is uncommon for plants to be hit by this particular variety of fungus ?!?! Which explains why Carolyn described it as aberrant!

@carolyn, @dutch Do you think my theory makes sense?
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Old April 23, 2018   #50
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Hi Banadoura,
Sure, A lot of things are possible. At this point I would like to see a picture of the complete root system from stem to the bottom. Please remove a plant from the growing medium, rinse the roots thoroughly with water, and take a picture of it. It is important to include the soil line area or in other words the area where the stem and the roots meet.
Dutch
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Old April 23, 2018   #51
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Originally Posted by Dutch View Post
Hi Banadoura,
Sure, A lot of things are possible. At this point I would like to see a picture of the complete root system from stem to the bottom. Please remove a plant from the growing medium, rinse the roots thoroughly with water, and take a picture of it. It is important to include the soil line area or in other words the area where the stem and the roots meet.
Dutch
Sure, here's a Daniel Burson I pulled, sorry for the full res:



Here's the top of the plant, notice how the dryness went from the leaf and hit the main stem, game over!
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Old April 23, 2018   #52
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Okay now check this out.
http://www.omafra.gov.on.ca/IPM/english/peppers/diseases-and-disorders/damping-off.html
Please note the fifth picture down.
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Old April 23, 2018   #53
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It looks like something has got a stranglehold on the lower part of your plant stems. (That reminds me of a song, but what doesn't)
In the old days potassium bicarbonate based products like Monterey Bi-Carb were quite popular for these problems. Mil-Stop may be the top dog of the potassium bicarbonate based product today. I do not recommend baking soda, sodium bicarbonate, as a substitute for potassium bicarbonate.
I personally use a combination of Actinovate and Mil-Stop to address lower stem problems like these.
You choices are many and there are many method to remedy this kind of problem.
Dutch
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The intuitive mind is a gift, and the rational mind is a faithful servant. But we have created a society that honors the servant and has forgotten the gift. (paraphrased) Albert Einstein

I come from a long line of sod busters, spanning back several centuries.

Last edited by Dutch; April 23, 2018 at 10:51 AM. Reason: Grammar
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Old April 23, 2018   #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dutch View Post
Okay now check this out.
http://www.omafra.gov.on.ca/IPM/english/peppers/diseases-and-disorders/damping-off.html
Please note the fifth picture down.
Dutch
Dutch, I can't pin point what the plant in the picture has in common with my dead plant. My plant leaves bleach and dry up. The ones in the picture seem to be lacking water but not dry. On my other plants the stem is sturdy and not affected, doesn't damping off eat at the base of the stem? I don't have that problem.

BTW I erred when I said I have no other house plants, my kids brought home two small cacti plants back in February that they put in the same room with my seedlings. It didn't come to mind at first because I was thinking of plants that were "mine".
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Old April 23, 2018   #55
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Water travel up the stem just inside the out layer, similar to the way sap flows in a tree under the bark.
Example "Dutch Elm Disease". The bark is destroyed the tree dies and the tree is still standing.
Dutch
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Last edited by Dutch; April 23, 2018 at 11:09 AM. Reason: Example instead of Think
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Old April 23, 2018   #56
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I think the difficulty in understanding what is happening may comes from the term “Damping-Off” which is a broad term and used to describe four different types of diseases; Phytophthora, Pythium, Rhizoctonia, and Fusarium. In addition to that there hundreds of different stain in each one of those four main groups.
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Old April 23, 2018   #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dutch View Post
I think the difficulty in understanding what is happening may comes from the term “Damping-Off” which is a broad term and used to describe four different types of diseases; Phytophthora, Pythium, Rhizoctonia, and Fusarium. In addition to that there hundreds of different stain in each one of those four main groups.
Would adding air circulation at this point help? I have 7 new seedlings since yesterday, would help them avoid it considering humidity would no longer be a factor?
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Old April 23, 2018   #58
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That depends on the type and strain of the infection. Pythium and Phytophthora infections are more likely in cool, wet soils, while Rhizoctonia and Fusarium prefer warmer, drier conditions.
Dutch
P.S. Please note the words more likely and prefer because there are some strains that behavior differently within these groups and far too many variable to address here.
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The intuitive mind is a gift, and the rational mind is a faithful servant. But we have created a society that honors the servant and has forgotten the gift. (paraphrased) Albert Einstein

I come from a long line of sod busters, spanning back several centuries.

Last edited by Dutch; April 23, 2018 at 12:57 PM. Reason: Added Post Script
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Old April 23, 2018   #59
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Originally Posted by Banadoura View Post
Would adding air circulation at this point help? I have 7 new seedlings since yesterday, would help them avoid it considering humidity would no longer be a factor?
I don't know if it will help or not, but it may be worth a try. If you are inclined to try that, then I say give it a go.
Dutch
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The intuitive mind is a gift, and the rational mind is a faithful servant. But we have created a society that honors the servant and has forgotten the gift. (paraphrased) Albert Einstein

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Old April 23, 2018   #60
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botrytis (grey mold) can cause symptoms of damping off by girdling the stem, particularly in small plants and seedlings. it also causes infection of leaflets and petioles producing symptoms like yours. The very typical grey fuzzy appearance you will see in stock photos on mature plants and fruit only develops in wet conditions. I still believe botrytis (grey mold) to be the most likely culprit in this humid indoor situation as I mentioned earlier.
When "googleing" photos, you will only find the most typical examples on mature plants for the most part but if you are specific and google Botrytis in tomato seedlings you will find information more specific to the question at hand.
http://vegetablemdonline.ppath.corne...o_Botrytis.htm
http://msue.anr.msu.edu/news/how_to_...mato_seedlings
The situation in seedlings will be different than in mature/fruiting plants. Botrytis is common in the environment and prevention is the key as it is difficult to deal with indoors once it is there, it is unusual as a big problem outdoors unless it is very humid and wet.

fans are quite useful in indoor or greenhouse environments to help prevent fungal infections by reducing condensation and improving airflow but once a fungus is present, a fan also will help to disperse the spores and spread the infection.
I'm sorry this has happened to your seedlings, I hope you can salvage some of your work, getting them outside will be the answer if they are to be salvaged.
It will be very important to try to sanitize the area and all pots and equipment, I would recommend a 10% solution of 1 part household bleach and 9 parts hot soapy water and a good scrub of everything after your plants are out of the area.
Again, best wishes.
Karen O

Last edited by KarenO; April 23, 2018 at 01:43 PM.
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