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Old 4 Weeks Ago   #31
bower
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Very interesting, Chris! It is a real piece of luck that the modifier also changes the color in the intermediate stages.

I wish I knew of more indeterminate Beta OP's that are larger than Jaune Flammee. (Great tomato all the same, I was impressed with the earliness and production from the seed you sent me, thanks!). If you had some larger fruited that are already beta, it would save you a lot of space and time, since size is one of the hardest things to recover from crosses with small fruit.
I could send you seed of my F4 out of Zolotoe Serdtse, which is paste shape and size, but presumably Beta/- and sp+/- with whatever semideterminate genetics also in the mix, so still the linkage issue in play.

I would have expected the Beta - sp linkage to take a real beating in a cross of 97L97 and Jaune Flammee. I mean, I thought it should segregate normally because of linkage to both sp+ and sp-.
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Old 4 Weeks Ago   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bower View Post
Very interesting, Chris! It is a real piece of luck that the modifier also changes the color in the intermediate stages.
It is lucky. But it can be tricky. I thought my F1's X with 97L97 were pure orange until they were *very* ripe when they finally got their blush.

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Originally Posted by bower View Post
I wish I knew of more indeterminate Beta OP's that are larger than Jaune Flammee. (Great tomato all the same, I was impressed with the earliness and production from the seed you sent me, thanks!). If you had some larger fruited that are already beta, it would save you a lot of space and time, since size is one of the hardest things to recover from crosses with small fruit.
I could send you seed of my F4 out of Zolotoe Serdtse, which is paste shape and size, but presumably Beta/- and sp+/- with whatever semideterminate genetics also in the mix, so still the linkage issue in play.
I think I would have some of the same linkage problems, and semideterminate is determinate w/ modifier genes. Size was even more of an issue last year. In the cross if 97L97 X Opalka the F2 was smaller than either original parent (oblong cherry size!)

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I would have expected the Beta - sp linkage to take a real beating in a cross of 97L97 and Jaune Flammee. I mean, I thought it should segregate normally because of linkage to both sp+ and sp-.
I don't believe so (I'm not a geneticist) but if we look at it this way instead:
MarkedUpJfx92.jpg

I marked the genes coming from JF with a diacritical mark(') and the genes from 97L97 with and asterisk(*). Note that the chromosome partners stay together (note, this is only for close linkages). So ultimately my breeding will be getting the Beta gene from JF and the modifier gene from 97L97 (The indeterminate sp+ genes will be coming from JF also).
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Old 4 Weeks Ago   #33
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Okay I see that, makes sense! The modifier is the one that's not part of the linkage.
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Old 3 Weeks Ago   #34
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It is lucky. But it can be tricky. I thought my F1's X with 97L97 were pure orange until they were *very* ripe when they finally got their blush.
Interesting. I've been working with some white genetics which develops a pink/red blush very late in ripening. I hadn't come across descriptions of the trait elsewhere, so I haven't had much information to ponder on about it. I'll need to think of experiments I can do to test if these are the same trait or not.
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Old 3 Weeks Ago   #35
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Carotina (La Carotina) is one more a high carotene tomato variety.

http://tatianastomatobase.com/wiki/Carotina
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Old 2 Weeks Ago   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darren Abbey View Post
Interesting. I've been working with some white genetics which develops a pink/red blush very late in ripening. I hadn't come across descriptions of the trait elsewhere, so I haven't had much information to ponder on about it. I'll need to think of experiments I can do to test if these are the same trait or not.
I'm pretty sure it's not, but it may be for similar reasons. Without the modifier gene, tomatoes with the Beta(B) gene are only 60% carotene, the remainder being mostly lycopene. The final 'blush' is the lycopene showing through.

I'm guessing your white genetics is a form of r (note that Beta does not work with r, only R.), but that "qualitative" or "bi-color' genes are causing a late addition of lycopene to the development of your tomato, but it's all conjecture on my part.
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Old 2 Weeks Ago   #37
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White interrupts the carotene biopath prior to formation of the lycopene precursors but after the gene that produces green when ripe. The interesting thing about white is that the entire carotene biopath - including both lycopene and carotene - is still present and can produce pigments with a simple modification such as grafting onto a rootstock that has the correct gene. This is why a cross of white X green often produces a red fruited F1. This also explains certain published examples of graft translocation triggering changes in fruit phenotype.
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Old 2 Weeks Ago   #38
Darren Abbey
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crmauch View Post
I'm pretty sure it's not, but it may be for similar reasons. Without the modifier gene, tomatoes with the Beta(B) gene are only 60% carotene, the remainder being mostly lycopene. The final 'blush' is the lycopene showing through.

I'm guessing your white genetics is a form of r (note that Beta does not work with r, only R.), but that "qualitative" or "bi-color' genes are causing a late addition of lycopene to the development of your tomato, but it's all conjecture on my part.
Darn. I've been puzzling over this trait for some time and keeping an eye out for anything that sounds similar. I hadn't connected it to the bicolor trait, so that's something new for me to think about
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