Tomatoville® Gardening Forums


Notices

Member discussion regarding the methods, varieties and merits of growing tomatoes.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old April 23, 2016   #1
Keiththibodeaux
Tomatovillian™
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Louisiana
Posts: 581
Default Kumato

Yes I ate them. Yes they are quite good. Yes I saved seeds. Yes I will plant them. And yes I will eat them too.

So, what do you reckon this variety is really?
Attached Images
File Type: jpg IMG_8431.jpg (234.9 KB, 339 views)
Keiththibodeaux is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 23, 2016   #2
Fred Hempel
Tomatovillian™
 
Fred Hempel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Sunol, CA
Posts: 2,225
Default

It is a F1 hybrid called Kumato, from Syngenta.

If you save seed you will see quite a bit of segregation for taste and color.
Fred Hempel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 24, 2016   #3
Gardeneer
Tomatovillian™
 
Gardeneer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: NC - zone 8a - heat zone 7
Posts: 4,736
Default

I like it too.
Last year I planted F2 seeds and saves seeds and I am growing F3.
The F2 produced exact the same fruits That I buy from Trader Joes.

Gardeneer

About Growth Habit:
Indet: RL
Height : ~ 4-5ft.
DTM: mid to late season.

I planted it in 5 gallon container last year. It was not a vigorous plant at all. Only forked once.
Not very productive but then it was worth growing in 5gl container. Not much maintenance required.
So far my plant this year is better than last year.

Last edited by Gardeneer; April 25, 2016 at 06:52 AM.
Gardeneer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 24, 2016   #4
carolyn137
Tomatoville® Moderator
 
carolyn137's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Upstate NY, zone 4b/5a
Posts: 21,046
Default

Kumato was bred in Spain and Ilex in Spain sent me Negro de Olmeda which he said was a sister to Kumato.

There are many links here at Tville

It was initially introduced to the US under another name by Dulcea, as Rosso Bruno

http://www.tomatoville.com/showthread.php?

wiki

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kumato...ghlight=Kumato


When Syngenta got a hold of it their first description of it was hilarious,as in from The Galapagos islands,somehow connected to turtles,with sexual overtones of why eating Kumatos would be good for you.I think Terry at Secret Seed Cartel may still have that info,I did as well but too hard to find in my faves.

I know Ilex very well, and he wouldn't be dealing with F1 hybrids,so when he sent me the sister to Kumato, Negro de Olmeda, it implies,at least to me,that perhaps Kumato and the former one were initially bred and then who knows what happened whe Snyngenta got a hold of it.

Many have tried to make selections from the F1,with varying results

https://www.google.com/search?hl=en&...71.g3t8TMsVUsA

Ok,I just had to see if I could find where Kumato was said to be from the Galapagos IS, and I did. Terry's blog about that as well as several others talk about the sexual powers of Kumato that Syngenta alluded to

https://www.google.com/search?q=Kuma..._AUIBigA&dpr=1


Happy reading.

Carolyn
__________________
Carolyn
carolyn137 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 24, 2016   #5
Keiththibodeaux
Tomatovillian™
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Louisiana
Posts: 581
Default

Thanks Carolyn. You are a living encyclopedia of tomato knowledge. I have your book, btw. Love it, but such a fraction of your knowledge.

Anyway, here goes the hopeless experimenter in me. I never met a tomato, hybrid or not that I didn't want to save seeds from and grown.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg FullSizeRender.jpg (285.0 KB, 284 views)
File Type: jpg IMG_8533.jpg (247.1 KB, 282 views)
Keiththibodeaux is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 24, 2016   #6
MissionGardens
Tomatovillian™
 
MissionGardens's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Chandler, AZ
Posts: 83
Default

I saved seed from them as well. Haven't grown them out yet. Should be interesting
MissionGardens is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 25, 2016   #7
nancyruhl
Tomatovillian™
 
nancyruhl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Metro Detroit, Michigan
Posts: 992
Default

i tried the same experiment with the mini kumatos I purchased at the grocery store. I thought they tasted pretty good, but when I grew them out next to Black cherry they weren't nexrly as tasty. What taste fairly good for a winter home grown deprived person just doesn't cut it when you have the real thing.
nancyruhl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 25, 2016   #8
oakley
Tomatovillian™
 
oakley's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: NewYork 5a
Posts: 2,043
Default

I grew one out last year and not really worth it. It was Thanksgiving 2014 when my local market had them on sale in an enormous tower at 3lbs for 5dollars. Usual price was 1lb for 5dollars. (expensive!). They had good color and texture and a bit tangy-sweet. A winter treat but still needed that splash of white balsamic trick for a winter tom to be even close to good eating.

This year the packaging changed a couple times and they no longer call them 'Kumato'. I think the 2014 batch were grown in Canada. This year grown in Mexico and not nearly as good and were mealy. Just tried them once.

I just use my frozen garden slices and make a salsa in the winter months.
oakley is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 25, 2016   #9
Andrey_BY
Tomatovillian™
 
Andrey_BY's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Minsk, Belarus, Eastern Europe (Zone 4a)
Posts: 2,120
Default

Late season, thick walled, flavorless space holder...
__________________
1 kg=2.2 lb , 1 m=39,37 in , 1 oz=28.35 g , 1 ft=30.48 cm , 1 lb= 0,4536 kg , 1 in=2.54 cm , 1 l = 0.26 gallon , 0 C=32 F

Andrey a.k.a. TOMATODOR
Andrey_BY is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 27, 2016   #10
shule1
Tomatovillian™
 
shule1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: In a BSk climate with extra hot summers.
Posts: 689
Default

I've seen a patent for Kumato tomatoes. So, I wouldn't be surprised if they did something weird with them. I'm not talking about PVP or something like that. I mean an actual patent. That seems to imply they might be GMO or something similar, since patents aren't supposed to be granted for traditionally bred varieties.

Last edited by shule1; April 27, 2016 at 10:05 PM.
shule1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 27, 2016   #11
carolyn137
Tomatoville® Moderator
 
carolyn137's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Upstate NY, zone 4b/5a
Posts: 21,046
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by shule1 View Post
I've seen a patent for Kumato tomatoes. So, I wouldn't be surprised if they did something weird with them. I'm not talking about PVP or something like that. I mean an actual patent. That seems to imply they might be GMO or something similar, since patents aren't supposed to be granted for traditionally bred varieties.
Yes,in my above post I linked to Kumato at Wiki,but when I just looked at it it had changed,so I fetched it again

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kumato

Where again it states it was patented.

I know Ilex very well and when he said that Olmeda was the sister to Kumato, both being OP,I'm having problems seeing anything GMO about it,but I can ask him again if you want me to.

There are many varieties that are patentended that have nothing to do with GMO's they patentent them to indicate ownership.

I also agree that patenets are not usually given to traditionally bred varieties, OR even original non bred varieties,but I ask if you are aware of the situation with Goose Creek tomato, as an excellent example of making up claims about a variety to indeed be granted a patent.

Jimmy Williams did that and his application for a patent was denied.

Carolyn
__________________
Carolyn
carolyn137 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 28, 2016   #12
Fred Hempel
Tomatovillian™
 
Fred Hempel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Sunol, CA
Posts: 2,225
Default

There are no GMO tomatoes currently on the market.

Quote:
Originally Posted by shule1 View Post
I've seen a patent for Kumato tomatoes. So, I wouldn't be surprised if they did something weird with them. I'm not talking about PVP or something like that. I mean an actual patent. That seems to imply they might be GMO or something similar, since patents aren't supposed to be granted for traditionally bred varieties.
Fred Hempel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 28, 2016   #13
Gardeneer
Tomatovillian™
 
Gardeneer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: NC - zone 8a - heat zone 7
Posts: 4,736
Default

Here is a picture that shows a Kumato that I harvested last year.

It came true 100%, just like the tomato that I took seed from.
This year I will try to cross it with one of dark tomatoes.

Gardeneer
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Aug-27-15.jpg (68.0 KB, 181 views)
Gardeneer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 28, 2016   #14
shule1
Tomatovillian™
 
shule1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: In a BSk climate with extra hot summers.
Posts: 689
Default

@Fred and Carolyn

I've also heard that there are no GE tomatoes on the market, currently (a year or so ago), but life changes fast and they have a habit of telling us about these things years after we've already been eating them (with some notable exceptions wherein they have traits that appeal to consumers rather than just to commercial growers); also, new GE tomatoes are said to exist, whether or not they're on the market, yet, so I've heard. That could be false, but probably easy to verify. When they are released they'll most likely be in grocery store produce, or products, though (not seed and plant catalogs). Anyway, that's why I said, 'or something', too. A lot of genetic manipulation can occur without genetic engineering (I'm not talking about via conventional breeding either, although conventional breeding is potentially *part* of the process). I don't really think Kumato is a GMO. It just looked like a possibility is all.

I'm interested to know why the Kumato tomato is patented more than I'm interested in knowing if it's genetically engineered, but an answer to the first should answer the last. There's very little legal ability to patent a tomato if it's not genetically engineered, though, as far as I know (tell me if I'm wrong), but I imagine exceptions may exist. I'm not talking about plant breeders rights when I say patents. However, companies don't always go for legal patents when they go for patents, and the patents are sometimes revoked later on when they're discovered to be illegal. But the question is, is it legal to infringe on an illegal patent that has not yet and may not ever be revoked? I mean, even if you go to court and prove that it's illegal, and they revoke it, will you still be prosecuted if you infringed? I'm guessing that's for the court to decide as far as they're concerned.

Anyway, you don't have to answer any of those questions I asked. I don't really want to get into an involved discussion. I'm just kind of obsessive, and responding with more information and thoughts than is probably common for conversion.
shule1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 28, 2016   #15
imp
Tomatovillian™
 
imp's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Wichita Falls, Texas
Posts: 4,226
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by shule1 View Post
@Fred and Carolyn

I've also heard that there are no GE tomatoes on the market, currently (a year or so ago), but life changes fast and they have a habit of telling us about these things years after we've already been eating them (with some notable exceptions wherein they have traits that appeal to consumers rather than just to commercial growers); also, new GE tomatoes are said to exist, whether or not they're on the market, yet, so I've heard. That could be false, but probably easy to verify. When they are released they'll most likely be in grocery store produce, or products, though (not seed and plant catalogs). Anyway, that's why I said, 'or something', too. A lot of genetic manipulation can occur without genetic engineering (I'm not talking about via conventional breeding either, although conventional breeding is potentially *part* of the process). I don't really think Kumato is a GMO. It just looked like a possibility is all.

I'm interested to know why the Kumato tomato is patented more than I'm interested in knowing if it's genetically engineered, but an answer to the first should answer the last. There's very little legal ability to patent a tomato if it's not genetically engineered, though, as far as I know (tell me if I'm wrong), but I imagine exceptions may exist. I'm not talking about plant breeders rights when I say patents. However, companies don't always go for legal patents when they go for patents, and the patents are sometimes revoked later on when they're discovered to be illegal. But the question is, is it legal to infringe on an illegal patent that has not yet and may not ever be revoked? I mean, even if you go to court and prove that it's illegal, and they revoke it, will you still be prosecuted if you infringed? I'm guessing that's for the court to decide as far as they're concerned.

Anyway, you don't have to answer any of those questions I asked. I don't really want to get into an involved discussion. I'm just kind of obsessive, and responding with more information and thoughts than is probably common for conversion.

If you want to know why the tomato is patented, read the patent. It's linked from the Wiki page or here:

https://www.google.com/patents/US761...ed=0CB0Q6AEwAA
imp is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 08:10 AM.


★ Tomatoville® is a registered trademark of Commerce Holdings, LLC ★ All Content ©2017 Commerce Holdings, LLC ★