Strawbale gardening....Its workin.... - Page 9

kelleyville · June 28, 2008

Heheheh a lot of fish emulsion. I was thinking of finishing off these bails with compost tea with fish emulsion. I really need to break down and buy some seaweed online somewhere, cannot find it here anywhere.....but I digress...doing that a lot lately.

I stuck my hands in these bails today and they are freaking HOT!

I don't think my blender could get this any finer, it is almost a powder now which is why I thought a brew of tea might work, but hey wonder about hot processing it like making a batch of bloodmeal coffee in the coffee maker hehehe...I better not do that I like coffee too much!

At any rate I still wonder why one or two or three ddays of nitrogen wouldnt do it...cause like I said these bales are HOT! There is a good reason for asking, i hoped to get two seasons out of the bales but my first ones will be nothig left of them by the end of this season....they are mush!

Also read somewhere else that each bale only takes a gallon of water a day....does that sound right? Tired of dragging the hose around and if a gallon is right heck it would be easier for me to just jug it out of the rainbarrels

Kelley

GIZZARDFARM · June 29, 2008

Hi all Ive been busy at work and trying to get some late beans, okra and squash out...good to hear everyones bales are doing good....I have 15 more bales started with two squash in each......I am offically in the black now as Ive sold enough squash from my bales to pay for lime,bales,and seed..I have never saw squash produce so much..I will use bales for squash until I die which i hope is a long time....ha..ha.. my cucs are putting on fruit as are tomatoes...my ground garden is also doing very well as I must have 4 or 5 hundred fruit set on 300 plants and many are just beginning to bloom and some havent started yet..I have began to harvest small amounts of okra today and bush beans are blooming...My Kentucky Wonders and Kentucky Blues are starting to vine and Mccasslins are nearing the bloom....Ill try to update my blog this week to show progress...Earl you are right to double your bales as Ive learned the hard way that squash and cucs need the support of two bales...although it hasnt affected production I like a neat,tight ship....be seein ya'll...Gene

bate181 · June 29, 2008

my goliath is coming back. as well as my cherokee purple. all the surviving plants in my bales are growing. however, the one plant, a variety i dont know, that i planted in a bag of miracle grow is clearly doing the best. its very green and lush and growing fast.

the plants in the bales are not as green, they have a gray hue to them. anyone know what i should do to get them to get greener?

kelleyville · June 30, 2008

Bate-
My tomatoes in bales are greener than any other plant in my garden! How bout some liquid foliar feeding? Compost tea, seaweed or fish emulsion? So far all I have used on the bales and bale plants since the initial fertilizer to kick start it was compost tea, alfalfa tea, and before it rained yesterday all my tomatoes got a sprinkling of kelp meal. I foliar feed about once every two weeks, and drench with compost tea on opposite weeks, so far this is working great!

Gene
you sure been busy!
I noticed the first little okras forming here for me, sounds like we are about on the same timeline but your tomatoes are doing better than mine hehehe

Kelley

kelleyville · June 30, 2008

Hey Gene, just a thought for you and something else to experiment with. I was reading about Alfalfa meal tea, which I use sometimes and read that combined with straw mulch you should have some very powerful fertilizer going on. Well actually it was hay mulch, not being a real farmer I really don't know the difference in hay and straw. The link is here:
http://www.dirtdoctor.com/view_question.php?id=2223

If I can ever find liquid seaweed that I don't have to order online I will rotate compost, alfalfa and seaweed tea. I think that dirtdoctor site has something called Garrett Juice plus, that already has all of that in it! Wonder if that would be overkill or wasted on bales? Actually wondering how that would work if drenched on the bales for ten days!

Kelley

bate181 · June 30, 2008

kelley where do they sell that stuff? the only thing my plants have got so far is the 10-10-10 mix during transplant

kelleyville · June 30, 2008

I make my own Garrett juice I guess. I make compost tea, black kow brand cow manure in a five gallon bucket, fill it with four gallons of water and about five pounds of manure sit it in the sun, stir it, and its ready in about five days, strain it and spray it on your plants! or when I soak I split into four buckets and double the water and then pour each bucket slowly over a bale. Now I use the aerobic method of making the tea now, same amounts of compost but in a paint strainer hanging in a bucket of water with air line and bubbler for a fish tank running into the water and connected to a fish pump. Be sure to add 1/2 oz of molasses to either way of making. I suppose you could just top off your bales with composted manure and water that in as well....

Alfalfa you buy where you buy horse feed, ask for Alfalfa grain! Its about $20-25 per 50lb bag. You use a cup of it per four gallons of water in a five gallon bucket, and sit it in the sun. you stir it too and you can strain and use after one day but the longer it sits the better it is but also the worse it stinks. You can also sprinkle the grain over the bales and water in.

Fish emulsion most walmarts have now, I use Alaska brand. I think I even saw it at Home Depot or Lowes, that is the easiest and easiest to find!

I am told most garden centers have seaweed or kelp but I can never find any! You can order it online. But it is not cheap on shipping in gallons. They do make smaller sizes like quarts though!

If you are not worried about being organic, try miracle grow for tomatoes but at half the recomended mix or less!

The garret juice you can order from that link above! I might order some to try myself.

Kelley

GIZZARDFARM · July 1, 2008

I must confess guys i have this year, because of the shear numbers and the extra work, took a shortcut and used a slow release triple 17 fert along with using miricle grow once a week and mine are doing great......

kelleyville · July 1, 2008

LOL good for you! I keep trying to stick to as close to organic as possible! Of course I am growing only for my own family and share extras with friends. I hope in the next couple of years to actually grow enough to sell!

As for squash, i have plants, I have flowers, I have both yellow squash that need pollinators and parthenocarpic zucchini that does not, and so far niether of them have showed even a hint of actual fruit!

This year though my own seedlings were planted in what I think is an Earl's hole or in the half 55 gallon barrels also mixed like an Earl's hole and they are the sturdiest plants I personally have ever grown while the ones in the bales were not my seedlings, they are the greenest prettiest tomato plants I have ever seen, must be the Co2? If it is that then I want to know how to gas my whole yard LOL!

Gene I quit using miricle grow cause I seemed to burn everything up with it even at half rate hehehe just me not the miricle grow I am sure!

I do beleive I have a tiny mater on one of the Pineapples in the bales! The ones in pots have flowered and flowered and refuse to set fruit so this is really great for me! Still trying to decide what to put in the next four bales. Watermelon? Pumpkin? Squash? hmmmm so many decisions but I have watermelon seedlings I forgot about and pumpkin seedlings that need a home, and new parthenocarpic zucchini that needs planting too...got some different stuff from different vendor this time....hopefully I will get a squah before the first frost hehehe

dice · July 2, 2008

I think the easiest way to do straw bales all organic would
be to start them earlier, a month or so before plant out, and
let the rain wash the organic fertilizer in, let bacteria and
fungi go to work on slow-release components of it, etc. By
the time it is warm enough to plant, the bales should be
broken down enough for plants to practically fly up out of
there.

One thing about preparing them at the last minute, though:
you probably get a couple of degrees of frost protection from
the heat coming from the bales. Put up a little temp frame
and throw plastic over it, you have a heated greenhouse.

Straw bales are made from wheat stems after the grain
is removed. Hay bales are made from big, coarse grasses
(except for alfalfa bales; alfalfa is sort of its own kind
of plant, closer to clover than to grass or wheat, but with
stems that are like straw). The hay bales have more nitrogen
to start with, so they need less added than straw bales.
They probably cost 3-4 times as much, too (alfalfa was about
4 times as much as wheat straw this spring for the same
sized bale).

kelleyville · July 2, 2008

I buy alfalfa for my bunny, and in the little pet bunny bags it is rediculously expensive. I saw alfalfa bales on a list online for $9.75 a bale. At that price it is a bargain for one bunny! For planting in or mulching with not going to happen for me hehehe! Thanks for helping me with that! I will keep buying the alfalfa for the garden in 50# bags of horse feed

I lost track of what I was doing with these last four bales...so they are going to be half quickstart half nature. They are so saturated now that anything I put on them will float off anyway!

Gene how do you water your regular crops? I have got to have a better system next year. For one less pots! I am only going to use pots for hot peppers and maybe some small tomatoes like window box romas and lime green salad. Bales I will do again and at least I know they have to be watered every day, but watering rows by hand stinks and I know I cannot count on the rain!

Kelley

GIZZARDFARM · July 2, 2008

Kelley I have been fortunate this year and not needed to water my large garden as we have had exceptional weather...I use a 100 gallon tank with a 3 roller pump and a 5hp gas engine i can pump 100 gallons in 20 minutes with it and it works well for the bales as i can mix fertilizer in tank or whatever i need. In dryer years i have a pump on a frame i drop into the creek which is about 200 feet away and pump to the garden.... I am in the planning stages of fixing up a 700 gallon tank put on a 10 foot frame i plan on pumping water into tank and hopefully there will be enough pressure to use drip irrigation...but thats next year as i am now consumed with keeping up with this years crop...I just bought 4 lbs of silver queen corn today and plan to plant it this week for a late corn crop whew then i will be through planting...I normally have everything planted by the second week in May but have strung it out this year to be able to offer consistant veggies until frost...Gene

kelleyville · July 3, 2008

Gene, Wow! I am still trying to figure out a better way than pump up sprayer to foliar feed hehehe! I bet if you lived here everything would be done! Hahaha!

Since the majority of my "crops" this year are in containers and bales I have to water a lot! Next year I will be concentrating on the strip of yard at the front of the yard, probably somewhat of raised beds, and bales where the yard has washed away. Very little rain and unpredictable rain at that! Too hot, too cold the seasons have been abnormal, and in fact we are having a really cool spell here with temps dipping into the fifties at night and highs in the 80's in the day time. Erratic weather here to say the least.

I would like to be pumping water out of the creeks here and am looking at water tanks to put under ground for rain water and working out the logistics of the necessary pump equipment to get it back out of the tanks!

4 lbs of corn is a ton of corn!

Let me know when you figure the drip irrigation out of a tank out! That I would really be interested in. Tried it with a rain barrell once and it just did not have enough momentum after the barrel was half empty, but 700 gallons is a lot more than a barrel!

Kelley

dice · July 3, 2008

[straw vs hay vs alfalfa]

Here are some pictures of each of alfalfa,
a couple of kinds of hay (Timothy and
Orchardgrass), and wheat (source of straw
for straw bales), for anyone curious about
what kind of plants they are:

Alfalfa:
http://earthlyaroma.com/images/Alfalfa.JPG
http://www.mdwfp.com/xNet/Files/Wild...te/Alfalfa.jpg

Timothy hay:
http://www.hummingbirdhaven.ca/timothyhay2.jpg

Orchard Grass:
http://www.frostglen.com/img/grass-orchard-large.jpg

Wheat:
http://www.salegion.co.za/images/jpg/wheat-field.jpg
http://k41.pbase.com/v3/44/306144/1/...pGraanveld.jpg

A few places sell other kinds of straw than wheat
straw (rye, bermuda, oat, etc), but if you walk
into a feed store and ask, "How much for a bale of
straw?", they will expect that you mean wheat
straw.

kelleyville · July 3, 2008

Kewl Dice! I thought Timothy Hay and Alfalfa were the same thing! Now I know better!

July 2, 2008	#130
dice Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: PNW Posts: 4,743	I think the easiest way to do straw bales all organic would be to start them earlier, a month or so before plant out, and let the rain wash the organic fertilizer in, let bacteria and fungi go to work on slow-release components of it, etc. By the time it is warm enough to plant, the bales should be broken down enough for plants to practically fly up out of there. One thing about preparing them at the last minute, though: you probably get a couple of degrees of frost protection from the heat coming from the bales. Put up a little temp frame and throw plastic over it, you have a heated greenhouse. Straw bales are made from wheat stems after the grain is removed. Hay bales are made from big, coarse grasses (except for alfalfa bales; alfalfa is sort of its own kind of plant, closer to clover than to grass or wheat, but with stems that are like straw). The hay bales have more nitrogen to start with, so they need less added than straw bales. They probably cost 3-4 times as much, too (alfalfa was about 4 times as much as wheat straw this spring for the same sized bale). __________________ -- alias

July 3, 2008	#134
dice Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: PNW Posts: 4,743	[straw vs hay vs alfalfa] Here are some pictures of each of alfalfa, a couple of kinds of hay (Timothy and Orchardgrass), and wheat (source of straw for straw bales), for anyone curious about what kind of plants they are: Alfalfa: http://earthlyaroma.com/images/Alfalfa.JPG http://www.mdwfp.com/xNet/Files/Wild...te/Alfalfa.jpg Timothy hay: http://www.hummingbirdhaven.ca/timothyhay2.jpg Orchard Grass: http://www.frostglen.com/img/grass-orchard-large.jpg Wheat: http://www.salegion.co.za/images/jpg/wheat-field.jpg http://k41.pbase.com/v3/44/306144/1/...pGraanveld.jpg A few places sell other kinds of straw than wheat straw (rye, bermuda, oat, etc), but if you walk into a feed store and ask, "How much for a bale of straw?", they will expect that you mean wheat straw. __________________ -- alias

June 28, 2008	#121
kelleyville Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Covington, GA 30016 7b? Posts: 321	Heheheh a lot of fish emulsion. I was thinking of finishing off these bails with compost tea with fish emulsion. I really need to break down and buy some seaweed online somewhere, cannot find it here anywhere.....but I digress...doing that a lot lately. I stuck my hands in these bails today and they are freaking HOT! I don't think my blender could get this any finer, it is almost a powder now which is why I thought a brew of tea might work, but hey wonder about hot processing it like making a batch of bloodmeal coffee in the coffee maker hehehe...I better not do that I like coffee too much! At any rate I still wonder why one or two or three ddays of nitrogen wouldnt do it...cause like I said these bales are HOT! There is a good reason for asking, i hoped to get two seasons out of the bales but my first ones will be nothig left of them by the end of this season....they are mush! Also read somewhere else that each bale only takes a gallon of water a day....does that sound right? Tired of dragging the hose around and if a gallon is right heck it would be easier for me to just jug it out of the rainbarrels Kelley

June 29, 2008	#122
GIZZARDFARM Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: COMFORT TENNESSEE Posts: 300	Hi all Ive been busy at work and trying to get some late beans, okra and squash out...good to hear everyones bales are doing good....I have 15 more bales started with two squash in each......I am offically in the black now as Ive sold enough squash from my bales to pay for lime,bales,and seed..I have never saw squash produce so much..I will use bales for squash until I die which i hope is a long time....ha..ha.. my cucs are putting on fruit as are tomatoes...my ground garden is also doing very well as I must have 4 or 5 hundred fruit set on 300 plants and many are just beginning to bloom and some havent started yet..I have began to harvest small amounts of okra today and bush beans are blooming...My Kentucky Wonders and Kentucky Blues are starting to vine and Mccasslins are nearing the bloom....Ill try to update my blog this week to show progress...Earl you are right to double your bales as Ive learned the hard way that squash and cucs need the support of two bales...although it hasnt affected production I like a neat,tight ship....be seein ya'll...Gene

June 29, 2008	#123
bate181 Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Southern California Posts: 74	my goliath is coming back. as well as my cherokee purple. all the surviving plants in my bales are growing. however, the one plant, a variety i dont know, that i planted in a bag of miracle grow is clearly doing the best. its very green and lush and growing fast. the plants in the bales are not as green, they have a gray hue to them. anyone know what i should do to get them to get greener?

June 30, 2008	#124
kelleyville Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Covington, GA 30016 7b? Posts: 321	Bate- My tomatoes in bales are greener than any other plant in my garden! How bout some liquid foliar feeding? Compost tea, seaweed or fish emulsion? So far all I have used on the bales and bale plants since the initial fertilizer to kick start it was compost tea, alfalfa tea, and before it rained yesterday all my tomatoes got a sprinkling of kelp meal. I foliar feed about once every two weeks, and drench with compost tea on opposite weeks, so far this is working great! Gene you sure been busy! I noticed the first little okras forming here for me, sounds like we are about on the same timeline but your tomatoes are doing better than mine hehehe Kelley

June 30, 2008	#125
kelleyville Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Covington, GA 30016 7b? Posts: 321	Hey Gene, just a thought for you and something else to experiment with. I was reading about Alfalfa meal tea, which I use sometimes and read that combined with straw mulch you should have some very powerful fertilizer going on. Well actually it was hay mulch, not being a real farmer I really don't know the difference in hay and straw. The link is here: http://www.dirtdoctor.com/view_question.php?id=2223 If I can ever find liquid seaweed that I don't have to order online I will rotate compost, alfalfa and seaweed tea. I think that dirtdoctor site has something called Garrett Juice plus, that already has all of that in it! Wonder if that would be overkill or wasted on bales? Actually wondering how that would work if drenched on the bales for ten days! Kelley

June 30, 2008	#126
bate181 Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Southern California Posts: 74	kelley where do they sell that stuff? the only thing my plants have got so far is the 10-10-10 mix during transplant

June 30, 2008	#127
kelleyville Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Covington, GA 30016 7b? Posts: 321	I make my own Garrett juice I guess. I make compost tea, black kow brand cow manure in a five gallon bucket, fill it with four gallons of water and about five pounds of manure sit it in the sun, stir it, and its ready in about five days, strain it and spray it on your plants! or when I soak I split into four buckets and double the water and then pour each bucket slowly over a bale. Now I use the aerobic method of making the tea now, same amounts of compost but in a paint strainer hanging in a bucket of water with air line and bubbler for a fish tank running into the water and connected to a fish pump. Be sure to add 1/2 oz of molasses to either way of making. I suppose you could just top off your bales with composted manure and water that in as well.... Alfalfa you buy where you buy horse feed, ask for Alfalfa grain! Its about $20-25 per 50lb bag. You use a cup of it per four gallons of water in a five gallon bucket, and sit it in the sun. you stir it too and you can strain and use after one day but the longer it sits the better it is but also the worse it stinks. You can also sprinkle the grain over the bales and water in. Fish emulsion most walmarts have now, I use Alaska brand. I think I even saw it at Home Depot or Lowes, that is the easiest and easiest to find! I am told most garden centers have seaweed or kelp but I can never find any! You can order it online. But it is not cheap on shipping in gallons. They do make smaller sizes like quarts though! If you are not worried about being organic, try miracle grow for tomatoes but at half the recomended mix or less! The garret juice you can order from that link above! I might order some to try myself. Kelley

July 1, 2008	#128
GIZZARDFARM Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: COMFORT TENNESSEE Posts: 300	I must confess guys i have this year, because of the shear numbers and the extra work, took a shortcut and used a slow release triple 17 fert along with using miricle grow once a week and mine are doing great......

July 1, 2008	#129
kelleyville Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Covington, GA 30016 7b? Posts: 321	LOL good for you! I keep trying to stick to as close to organic as possible! Of course I am growing only for my own family and share extras with friends. I hope in the next couple of years to actually grow enough to sell! As for squash, i have plants, I have flowers, I have both yellow squash that need pollinators and parthenocarpic zucchini that does not, and so far niether of them have showed even a hint of actual fruit! This year though my own seedlings were planted in what I think is an Earl's hole or in the half 55 gallon barrels also mixed like an Earl's hole and they are the sturdiest plants I personally have ever grown while the ones in the bales were not my seedlings, they are the greenest prettiest tomato plants I have ever seen, must be the Co2? If it is that then I want to know how to gas my whole yard LOL! Gene I quit using miricle grow cause I seemed to burn everything up with it even at half rate hehehe just me not the miricle grow I am sure! I do beleive I have a tiny mater on one of the Pineapples in the bales! The ones in pots have flowered and flowered and refuse to set fruit so this is really great for me! Still trying to decide what to put in the next four bales. Watermelon? Pumpkin? Squash? hmmmm so many decisions but I have watermelon seedlings I forgot about and pumpkin seedlings that need a home, and new parthenocarpic zucchini that needs planting too...got some different stuff from different vendor this time....hopefully I will get a squah before the first frost hehehe

July 2, 2008	#131
kelleyville Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Covington, GA 30016 7b? Posts: 321	I buy alfalfa for my bunny, and in the little pet bunny bags it is rediculously expensive. I saw alfalfa bales on a list online for $9.75 a bale. At that price it is a bargain for one bunny! For planting in or mulching with not going to happen for me hehehe! Thanks for helping me with that! I will keep buying the alfalfa for the garden in 50# bags of horse feed I lost track of what I was doing with these last four bales...so they are going to be half quickstart half nature. They are so saturated now that anything I put on them will float off anyway! Gene how do you water your regular crops? I have got to have a better system next year. For one less pots! I am only going to use pots for hot peppers and maybe some small tomatoes like window box romas and lime green salad. Bales I will do again and at least I know they have to be watered every day, but watering rows by hand stinks and I know I cannot count on the rain! Kelley

July 2, 2008	#132
GIZZARDFARM Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: COMFORT TENNESSEE Posts: 300	Kelley I have been fortunate this year and not needed to water my large garden as we have had exceptional weather...I use a 100 gallon tank with a 3 roller pump and a 5hp gas engine i can pump 100 gallons in 20 minutes with it and it works well for the bales as i can mix fertilizer in tank or whatever i need. In dryer years i have a pump on a frame i drop into the creek which is about 200 feet away and pump to the garden.... I am in the planning stages of fixing up a 700 gallon tank put on a 10 foot frame i plan on pumping water into tank and hopefully there will be enough pressure to use drip irrigation...but thats next year as i am now consumed with keeping up with this years crop...I just bought 4 lbs of silver queen corn today and plan to plant it this week for a late corn crop whew then i will be through planting...I normally have everything planted by the second week in May but have strung it out this year to be able to offer consistant veggies until frost...Gene

July 3, 2008	#133
kelleyville Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Covington, GA 30016 7b? Posts: 321	Gene, Wow! I am still trying to figure out a better way than pump up sprayer to foliar feed hehehe! I bet if you lived here everything would be done! Hahaha! Since the majority of my "crops" this year are in containers and bales I have to water a lot! Next year I will be concentrating on the strip of yard at the front of the yard, probably somewhat of raised beds, and bales where the yard has washed away. Very little rain and unpredictable rain at that! Too hot, too cold the seasons have been abnormal, and in fact we are having a really cool spell here with temps dipping into the fifties at night and highs in the 80's in the day time. Erratic weather here to say the least. I would like to be pumping water out of the creeks here and am looking at water tanks to put under ground for rain water and working out the logistics of the necessary pump equipment to get it back out of the tanks! 4 lbs of corn is a ton of corn! Let me know when you figure the drip irrigation out of a tank out! That I would really be interested in. Tried it with a rain barrell once and it just did not have enough momentum after the barrel was half empty, but 700 gallons is a lot more than a barrel! Kelley

July 3, 2008	#135
kelleyville Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Covington, GA 30016 7b? Posts: 321	Kewl Dice! I thought Timothy Hay and Alfalfa were the same thing! Now I know better!