Blossom End Rot

[Fusion_power]

Carolyn, Rootstocks distinctly improve nutrient uptake. I suspect that a good rootstock would indeed increase calcium uptake and transport into the plant.

[Cole_Robbie]

BER has been bad for me in my high tunnel. Last year, I grew determinates and had no problems. This year, my seedlings froze, so I had to buy a flat of Big Beef.

My high tunnel has very poor soil, but I have tilled out and amended the three rows of plants. I have huge plants, 7-8' vines, and good flavor, but I am throwing away too many fruit due to BER. Part of my problem is that 2/3 of the high tunnel gets wet when it rains, and the other 1/3 doesn't. So there is no one watering schedule that suits all the plants. BER is worst in the dry section, until I water too much, and then the other plants get it.

I think what is happening is that my very large indeterminate plants have grown roots into the unamended clay outside of my nice bed, and then are subject to the grow and dry out cycle that causes BER.

There are still university extension center web pages that say BER is a calcium deficiency. I know that's how it's exhibited, but I think it has nothing to do with calcium and everything to do with moisture inconsistency. I fertigate with calcium nitrate, and it does not make a difference.

[carolyn137]

Originally Posted by Fusion_power

Carolyn, Rootstocks distinctly improve nutrient uptake. I suspect that a good rootstock would indeed increase calcium uptake and transport into the plant.

Darrel, my point being that Ca++ uptake is not the major problem with BER, and yes, I've read that various rootstocks may increase uptake of Ca++ and other stuff, I'll call it,such as water and nutrients, but as I said above, the major problem is distribution within the plant that can lead to BER.

How I wish that link I had for so many years was still active, that showed that plants with BER fruits had normal levels of Ca++ in the vasculatureof the plants, but alas, another RIP link.

Carolyn

[joseph]

I speculate that BER is due to the plant not being able to supply sufficient nutients to rapidly growing fruits... And that the reason BER goes away later on in the life cycle of the plant is because the plant has a better developed nutrient uptake and distribution system.

So what if early fruits on tomato plants were thinned by 1/2 or 2/3. Would that reduce the nutrient requirements sufficiently that the remaining fruits could avoid developing BER? It'd be interesting to try the experiment, but then I'd have to grow Roma tomatoes again, and what if the weather didn't cooperate or if I chose a somewhat less susceptible variety? Anyone else up for trying the experiment? For me it's already too late in the season. My fall frosts could start in less than 60 days.

[AKmark]

Joseph, I think I think it is competition between fruit set and fast growing plants, and water supply. I believe if some varieties wilt just once, even a little bit, you see BER, and then it has to run its course. I found that Cal-Mag and all that stuff is worthless at that point, in time they will correct themselves if the watering stays spot on. Some varieties are certainly worse than others.
I assume like humans, plant systems will do what they can to maintain homeostasis, for lack of a better word to describe the balance in their needs to live. I'm not sure what is going on inside the plant, but I am feel pretty confident I can avoid dealing with it.

I don't plan on thinning my early tomatoes to prevent BER. If BER doesn't develop on the plant after thinning, how will you know if it was due to fruit thinning or just the luck of the draw. As I said in a previous post, I've had no BER on my JD's this year and it has produced a bumper crop of large tomatoes which set early in the spring. The only difference between this year and past years is I've had no heavy rains in my garden while the tomatoes were small. It seems every year that if a tomato reaches a certain percentage of maximum growth, it becomes immune to BER. That is the way it seems in my garden. I have no idea if the same is true in other gardens.

Ted

[Worth1]

Originally Posted by tedln

I don't plan on thinning my early tomatoes to prevent BER. If BER doesn't develop on the plant after thinning, how will you know if it was due to fruit thinning or just the luck of the draw. As I said in a previous post, I've had no BER on my JD's this year and it has produced a bumper crop of large tomatoes which set early in the spring. The only difference between this year and past years is I've had no heavy rains in my garden while the tomatoes were small. It seems every year that if a tomato reaches a certain percentage of maximum growth, it becomes immune to BER. That is the way it seems in my garden. I have no idea if the same is true in other gardens.

Ted

Kind of like cutting the tail off of a pig to see if it gets fatter.
Worth

[lavanta]

Originally Posted by carolyn137

I think the best answer is embedded in the following paragraph that comes from my earlier post:

(Many folks add Ca++ and then see that BER disappears. What they fail to realize is that BER is going to go away anyway, as the season progresses. And that's because as the plants get larger they are better able to handle the many stresses that can induce it. So one cannot correlate addition of Ca++ to disappearance of BER. Universities have done so many stidies on this already
because BER is a billion dollar problem in the commercial veggie industry.)

BER usually appears on the earliest fruits and then usually goes away as plants mature and can better handle all the stresses that are involved with BER.

And I think that's exactly what happened with your one plant.

How many plants do you grow in a season and how many do show BER early in the season?

If you look at the preceding posts many of them do indicate a genetic factor, such as the huge susceptibility to BER by true paste varieties and also my describing what happens when plants are under water.

So quite a few of us are convinced that BER is genetic, the details not known,accompanied by enviromental variables.

Hope that helps,and I sure wish I only got one BER fruit on a sinlge plant.

Carolyn

Hello Carolyn,

I re-read my post and realized that it is quite badly worded. I have a Cherokee Purple that got one BER tomato on a truss of about 6 six other tomatoes. After that one poor fellow, I've got none other. All my other dozen plants are BER free this year.

Cheers

[peekers]

Peekers,I'm not sure I see the connection between a vigorous root system, which you attribute to the rootstock you're using, and BER, since almost any variety I've grown , about 4,000 varieties to date, have also had vigorous root systems.

What am I missing here?

Uptake of Ca++ via the roots is not the major problem,unless the soil has none, which is rare,it's the distribution within the plant that's theproblem, and there are many factors that influence that.

[peekers]

Well messed that up. I'm thinking that until the plant develops an adequate root system to supply the nutrients required by the plant that BER may occur. As has been written previously, it usually resolves as the plant (and root system) mature. I previously had issues occasionally with BER,, nothing major. Since grafting I have not observed it. The roots of the plants I remove after our November frost are nothing like I have ever seen after many years of growing ungrafted tomatoes.

[jflournoy]

Interesting discussion my original post has spawned here.

An update on my plants: Of my in-ground plants, the BER has definitely slowed down in the last week or so, except for Orange Minsk, which is still putting out a bunch with BER. I have Orange Minsk planted in 3 different locations/soil types (including some that get watered once a week and some that don't get watered at all), and in every spot it has a lot of BER, much more than any of the other almost 80 varieties I planted. It does have some without BER also (including some giants), but a lot with BER. I almost hope we don't like the taste of OM so we wouldn't agonize over whether or not to grow it again.

I've noticed, on all the plants so far that have had some BER, that the earliest setting tomatoes seemed to get past it unscathed, it was the ones that set a little later that seemed to get it worse.

On my container grown plants, things are quite different. I've had much more widespread BER in them, although, again, not on the earliest setting fruit (which are currently the largest).

Mountain Fresh Plus has had almost none, Big Beef has had a little more than that, and all the other 15+ varieties are various heirlooms and have had anywhere from a little BER to a lot, except for Liz Birt and Spudakee, which - so far - haven't had any. Mr. Bruno and Cowlick's Brandywine have had it particularly bad.

I find it interesting the discussion about one of the big causes of BER being inconsistent watering, because my container plants have been getting twice daily water for several weeks now (pretty much since they started setting fruit), on a timer, with a drip irrigation system. Don't know if I can water them any more "consistently" than that. They are also getting fed once a week, with a half-strength Miracle Gro Tomato food and stronger ratio Texas Tomato Food mixture.

[carolyn137]

I find it interesting the discussion about one of the big causes of BER being inconsistent watering, because my container plants have been getting twice daily water for several weeks now (pretty much since they started setting fruit), on a timer, with a drip irrigation system. Don't know if I can water them any more "consistently" than that. They are also getting fed once a week, with a half-strength Miracle Gro Tomato food and stronger ratio Texas Tomato Food mixture.

&&&&&

I'm assuming that you are using an artificial mix in the containers as most do,me too with half ProMix and half bagged composted cow manure, and if so you do need to add some Ca++ b'c it gets washed out easily by too much rain or watering too much.

I don't know the MG and Texas amendments you're using so don't know how much Ca++ either of them have.

Carolyn

[jflournoy]

Originally Posted by carolyn137

I find it interesting the discussion about one of the big causes of BER being inconsistent watering, because my container plants have been getting twice daily water for several weeks now (pretty much since they started setting fruit), on a timer, with a drip irrigation system. Don't know if I can water them any more "consistently" than that. They are also getting fed once a week, with a half-strength Miracle Gro Tomato food and stronger ratio Texas Tomato Food mixture.

&&&&&

I'm assuming that you are using an artificial mix in the containers as most do,me too with half ProMix and half bagged composted cow manure, and if so you do need to add some Ca++ b'c it gets washed out easily by too much rain or watering too much.

I don't know the MG and Texas amendments you're using so don't know how much Ca++ either of them have.

Carolyn

I'm actually using straight Michigan Peat Moss. A friend who owns a local nursery did a growing test with that and half a dozen different other "mixes" last year, including a professional potting mix, and said the Michigan Peat and the professional potting mix did equally as well, with the Michigan Peat being quite a bit cheaper, so I went that route this year.

I did a test of my own on half a dozen plants that I planted in containers in mid April, with just water, just Miracle Gro, just Neptune's Harvest, just Texas Tomato Food and a Miracle Gro/Texas Tomato Food mixture. The one with just water did basically nothing in a month, so I switched it over to Texas Tomato Food and it started growing well almost immediately. The one with Neptune's Harvest grew more than the one with just water, but it was very weak and sickly looking, not green and healthy. I switched it over to Miracle Gro Tomato formula after about 6 weeks and it currently looks fabulous.

The Miracle Gro Tomato formula doesn't show any Calcium in the analysis.

The Texas Tomato Food analysis is as follows:

N - 3.8%
P - 3.1%
K - 7.0%
Mg - 1.1%
Ca - 3.6%
S - 1.8%
Fe - .025%
B - .013%
Mn - .0025%
Zn - .0043%
Cu - .0043%
Mo - .0005%

Do you think maybe I should "feed" them more than once per week since they're getting a lot more water now in the heat of the Summer? Maybe the "feed" nutrients are getting washed out of the container more quickly than they were a month ago?

[Chapinz8]

I agree that I've never had BER on any cherry. I rarely have any and then usually only on one or two of the first at most. In the last 2 weeks I have thrown out about 7 from Carbon & Brandywine Cowlicks, and I think one Dr Lyle. Very unusual for this late in the season (midseason here). I'm not going to worry about it as the rest look ok.

[jflournoy]

Originally Posted by Chapinz8

I agree that I've never had BER on any cherry. I rarely have any and then usually only on one or two of the first at most. In the last 2 weeks I have thrown out about 7 from Carbon & Brandywine Cowlicks, and I think one Dr Lyle. Very unusual for this late in the season (midseason here). I'm not going to worry about it as the rest look ok.

Are yours in-ground plants or in containers?