Seedlings - Slow growth

[OmahaJB]

July 19th update:

Since I see people are viewing this thread, I'll continue updating every week or so. This started out as me just wanting to vent my frustrations on my diseased seedlings that I had taken the time and care to start from seed. It's turned into a garden diary of what has gone (mostly) right so far. As you can imagine it's much more enjoyable to focus on the successes!

Left work early yesterday as my work on the job was completed, and I really wanted to do my shopping for the week (always on Fridays after work to beat the Saturday madness), then tend the garden and cut the grass a day earlier than planned. I did all that and can focus this weekend on taking care of things at my apartment the next 2 days and also relax, which is needed right now! I've been getting a little stressed with my work situation and the gardening is the flip side of that - enjoyable and satisying, but I also need time at home to re-energize myself this weekend.
Seems I'm hijacking my own thread, hah.

Potatoes - They did not like the heat this week. We've only had two stretches of a few days each this summer that have been in the high 80's to lower-90's. So far we've been pretty cool. On July 4th we were forecast to have high 70's for highs (Global cooling?). There's also been a lot of rainfall. This week it was hot & dry, and the potato plants had most of their blossoms die off and the leaves were wilting and curling a bit. They were watered a couple of times at least, so I know they had enough water. The only other explanation would be if the plants are starting to die off already which I highly doubt. Most of the flowers only opened a week to a week and a half ago. Maybe that's normal, but I think it's the heat. It should only be a few weeks before I'm able to start harvesting so I'm not too worried. The plants should be fine.

Big Bertha - I'm starting with my negatives today which probably reflects my mood this past week, unfortunately. If I get anything from this plant I'll be surprised. I've seen flowers open but no peppers yet. The plant also did not like the heat. I really needed to get a pepper plant in much earlier than I did this one. Plus, it has the WORST spot in the garden.

Tomatoes - I have tomatoes growing on each variety, although one each of the Better Boy & 1884 has not started growing any yet. Just flowers on those two so far. Big Beef has at least 3 starting out, Better Boy 2, 1884 one I believe, & Black Cherry has 15!!! Read Burpee's blurbs on Big Beef & Better Boy, and was happy to see they both have great disease resistance.
So far no real problems in that regard. All of those plants are only around 3' tall or shorter. The late start definitely hurt in that regard.

As for the 'stumps', the last 2 that I planted (Aker's WV & Red Rocket), definitely will not do anything. And I knew they wouldn't, it was just an experiment to see if I could get surprising results. With those two I wont. With the other 3 'stumps' I think there's a SMALL chance that I will. Mammoth German Gold still looks good but did not have much vegetative growth since last weekend, possibly because of the heat. It's done better than Czech's Bush & Red Rocket that I planted at the same time, but they all look at least decent. Since MGG has a longer DTM I'm less likely to get anything from it, whereas Czech's Bush which has much smaller toms than MGG & Red Rocket which has an earlier DTM have an outside chance of producing ripened fruit. Poor little Czech's Bush was planted between the garlic & Black Cherry due to lack of space and didn't get the sunlight it deserved until I removed the garlic. At the time I didn't expect it to do much anyways so didn't consider it a big deal. Will watch that one as I'm curious as to how it performs. Still only about 6 inches or so tall.

Of the corn & melon seeds I let the niece & nephew plant I see 1 corn and 4 melon plants growing. I'm pretty sure the melons are one of the watermelon varieties and the others are the smaller melons, which included Thayer, Kansas, Collective Farm Woman & Charentais. Obviously they wont grow to maturity but the kids are getting a kick out of watching their seeds grow, from what I've been told.

Next year I'll definitely be getting things planted earlier. The year was filled with hurdles due to lack of space for seedlings under my shoplights, and worst of all, DISEASE! What's aggravating is I don't know if the disease started from containers not being disinfected, the environment here in my apartment (most likely), or from the seeds themselves. Last August I drove approximately 3000 miles in the August heat with the seeds packed in my car with my other belongings minus what was in storage. It's hard for me to believe that disease spores flew into my car window, found the bags the seeds were in, and infected them. That would be one magic disease spore! Nah, it had to be the environment here as the most probable cause, with containers not being disinfected as the next most likey culprit, in my non-scientific opinion. As a former Cryptologist I deal with levels of probability.

Not much else to report, except the rhubarb didn't germinate. I may try to find a place that sells rhubarb plants to see if they have any left. They should still have time to establish themselves and would be larger than anything I'd get from the seeds at this point. Definitely want to work on getting this done. That's the least I could do for my mother who allowed me to use her backyard this year for gardening.

Until next time, you lurkers you....

Jeff

[fourtgn]

Omaha,
I'm really enjoying reading how your gardening is going this year. I have planted several things for the first time, some of which you also have, and it is good to hear another person's experience. Keep it up! Glad to hear that your mother likes the garlic. I bet she will enjoy next year, too!
Fourtgn

[OmahaJB]

Fourtgn,

Thanks for the feedback. I wasn't going to continue with this thread a couple of weeks ago, but noticed it had enough views by others to make it worthwhile to continue. I'm glad you are enjoying it.

BTW, "Welcome to Tomatoville!". I noticed that was your first post. Please feel free to jump in and join in any discussion on the forums. There was a thread awhile back encouraging new members to post. I'm sure others would enjoy hearing about your garden in the general discussions forum, as would I.

As far as what I'm growing, one of the things that was spur of the moment was Big Beef. I wanted to buy a Better Boy at Home Depot one Saturday after my OP varieties went down with disease, and after picking out the Better Boy which had two plants in the container, I noticed the Big Beef plants were very strong plants. At $1.98 I thought, why not? So I splurged... At this point I think Big Beef will be fairly productive. It's still a strong plant. The Better Boys aren't as strong but it might be location in the garden - not as many hours of sun per day.

Hope to see you posting around the site "fourtgn". It's always good to see new folks post here. Doesn't matter if you have 30 years of experience or 1 as far as I'm concerned. Heck, I'm one of the least experienced gardeners posting here!

Edit: I see you're in Texas. You should feel at home here because we have a few folks from your state who post quite a bit. Enjoy.

Jeff

[OmahaJB]

July 25th Update: (Edited for the sake of brevity and to stay on topic)

I was really surprised on Wednesday when I visited the garden to see just how much bigger the tomatoes had gotten in 4 days. Truly amazing fruit growth. The 1884 grew from pebble sized to plum sized in that short time span. And my mother was surprised that the Black Cherry tomatoes would get as big as they have.

Since I'll be working Saturday for hopefully 10 hours if there's enough work, I decided to do my weeding & tomato 'viewing' today instead. Noticed a couple of things I did not want to see. First, the 1884 has what looks like two tiny tiny round holes in the bottom of the tomato. It is along the seam so I don't know if it's bug related or a sign of cracking developing. That plant only has one other tomato which is just starting out. My other 1884 has no fruit yet.

The other problem was on one of the Better Boys. There was a cluster of three tomatoes and the two smaller ones had what looked to me possible early signs of BER or something going bad inside. It was on the side of each tomato where they had what looked like a carmel colored soft spot that I took as rotting. My mother was horrified when she saw me raise them to show her what I thought BER looked like - in an almost panicked tone she said, "You took them off???". She was equally horrified in early summer when I pinched off a couple of Big Beef flowers so the plant could put it's energy into vegetative growth. The plant was barely a foot tall at the time. I assured her that alot of experienced gardeners on the "gardening forums I post on" pinch early flowers off if the plant is still small. And one of them "even wrote a book" on tomatoes! Now I don't know if Carolyn ever pinched flowers off her plants when they were small, but my point was that experienced and knowledgeable folks post alot of helpful advice here.

Black Cherry tomatoes are looking absolutely great. Did not count today to see if more are starting out. But I should see first signs of some ripening soon.

Big Beef is really the big big winner in terms of non-cherry production so far. Lots of tomatoes comparatively to 1884 & Better Boy. Nice sized fruit at that. Did not count them today, but I'm guessing about 10 toms on a 3.5 foot plant. Now if they taste decent I'll plant again next year, because I like the plant vigor and the production AND the disease resistance.

Potato vegetation is really showing signs of putting it's energy into the taters. No potato berries disappointingly (if that's a word).

Big Bertha is not so big and doesn't want to produce any peppers. Probably related to the earlier heat.

Nothing to note really on the 'stumps'. They are not progressing much. Still have hopes, but they are fading.

Jeff

[OmahaJB]

August 1st Update:

Well, company picnic today but I decided to leave when that started so I could start my weekend early. Too much to do! Now I have an hour to kill at home before I'm to visit my father, then afterwards take care of some 'things'. So I thought I may as well post this now since I visited the garden twice during the week.

The vegetation on the potatoes is really dying out. That's good news, but it seems to me it might be a little early for that to happen. Real curious how big the potatoes get. Good thing I stopped over to check on the garden! The potato plants especially needed watering, Tuesday the soil was very dry. And Thursday it was getting that way fast. I hope that didn't affect the potatoes adversely. I'm pretty sure I'll be dumping one of those grow bags out at the beginning of September to see what I have, then wait on the remaining bags until mid-September.

Big Bertha - I wont comment on that pepper plant again, unless it surprisingly grows a pepper or two. I don't expect anything from it. Never took off after transplanting. Flowered but did not pollinate. Still only about 12-14" tall.

Tomatoes - I realize this doesn't sound productive, but for me it IS: I have 25 Black Cherry tomatoes growing so far! Ya-hoo...Now if I could get a few to ripen! My tomato plants are only about 3' tall or so, so the production level isn't up to what others are getting. It's been hot the past week and a half or longer, which has stunted plant growth.

1884: I shouldn't be disappointed with the low production, because I knew it was a larger tomato variety. But unless I grow alot of plants next year, I wont let this one take up space. The largest tomato on the largest plant has a rotting area that rubs up against a branch. That's the tomato with two tiny holes in the bottom along the seam. Haven't figured out if it's from pests or a sign of cracking. That tom is nice sized, but I'm afraid I'll have to pull it off of the plant Saturday when I go to cut the grass. There is only 1 other tomato on that plant I could see. About the size of a half-dollar. The other 1884 has a tomato just beginning to grow, and possibly a 2nd one.

Big Beef: Has 9 or 10 tomatoes on it. Nothing ripening yet.

Better Boy: Each of the two plants have 4 or 5 tomatoes on them, possibly more. No signs of BER other than the toms I took off the plant last weekend. Just wish these plants were as vigorous as Big Beef. Better Boy may end up tasting good, but the plants themselves don't seem to be the strongest.

'Stumps': I fertilized all of my tomato plants with either 10-10-10 or blooming strength, depending on need. The stumps needed 10-10-10, imo. The Mammoth German Gold is the one I think could do something if any of them do. Wouldn't be more than 'fried green tomatoes', but it would be a nice reward for growing out a plant I thought had no chance of surviving.

I do have 4 melon plants growing. One or two are flowering. Obviously, they wont have time to grow anything worthwhile. Still fun for the kids to watch, along with the ONE corn stalk growing. I planted about 20 corn 'seeds'.

Next year if I'm around here I'll need to figure out a place to start seeds, as my apartment isn't working. I have some new seedlings that are also getting mold or bacteria on their leaves. Not good!

[OmahaJB]

August 2nd:

Pulled the 1884 tomato that was rotting on the side & had 2 tiny pin-holes in the bottom. After pulling it could see it was starting to show signs of BER. I sliced it to see if bugs caused the pin-holes, but noticed no damage in that area. Must have just been cracking starting out there.

Since most of the tomato was fine, I sliced a couple small pieces to taste. Not being ripe it didn't have much flavor, but didn't taste bad or bitter as I expected. Just very mild.

That plant has 1 other tomato and could see others by next weekend. Several flowers are dying out. The other 1884 has only one or two toms starting out as well.

Not productive at all.

Will definitely see ripening tomatoes soon. Most of the ones on the other varieties are turning the light green color you see before they start 'coloring' up.

***Started a few seeds a couple weeks ago with plans on growing indoors. Included were seeds from the dwarf project. They were the only seeds I kept from my F3 Wishful tomatoes. I started those 6 (4 germinated), along with some other varieties I thought I could grow indoors.

Well, 4 Wishfuls germinated but noticed disease or fungus on the leaves already. The first set of true leaves were just starting to grow out. This morning I decided enough is enough, and took those along with some others that germinated (Black Sea Man, Sprite, and Black Cherry), over to my mother's and asked her to take care of them until they are big enough to transplant. Only bad thing about that is they'll just be sitting inside by a window instead of under a shoplight. Hopefully they wont get so leggy and weak that they flop over and die. Chances are still better they survive there than here where the fungus would destroy them.

[OmahaJB]

August 7th update:

Stopped over to water the plants today and noticed two Black Cherry tomatoes starting to ripen. I pulled them off and will let them finish ripening indoors. Considering I was over there a couple of days ago and saw no color yet, it was a little surprising to see how quickly these are ripening.

Big Beef looks to have a couple tomatoes just barely starting to ripen. They are not as big as I would have guessed, but more productive than Better Boy. Will be curious to see which of those two tastes better.

Mammoth German Gold has a nice big flower starting to die. It's a small plant but if I see a tomato growing I'll be sure to give this one a small cage or stake.

Potato plants sure are close to the end. Some are worse looking than the others naturally, but I don't see any lasting through the end of the month. I've pretty much decided to wait until at least September 1st to dump one of the growbags out. The rest will be harvested mid-September or later.

Will post after tasting my first Black Cherry tomato, hopefully within a couple of days!

[gardengalrn]

Jeff, I have appreciated your updates immensely. I too have felt like this year was a trial with all the disease/pests/weeds/weather. But, I have bucked up and am planning next year already. I never imagined a grasshopper problem like this, it is really of biblical proportions. They have eaten EVERYTHING in sight. Flowers, veggies, ornamentals, you name it. I had cursed the Jap Beetles in KY but this is way too overwhelming. My chicken coop is a modified tin shed and as I walk by you would swear it is hailing with all the grasshoppers jumping.
My potatoes didn't do so well but made a nice supply of new potatoes. My garlic did quite well although not as big as I would have liked. Flavor is outstanding! Onion crop did exceptionally well and I would plug Dixondale Farms again if anyone is interested in buying plants. I'm glad you got some lettuce to germinate because I have found the difference between fresh out of the garden and store-bought is very like the tomato. Peas did very well, too. I planted Super Sugar Snap, Eclipse, Green Arrow, Mr. Big and Lincoln. Mr. Big did not do well...big pods that never filled out. The others were excellent in production and taste. My beans have not faired well, the grasshoppers love them. Cabbages and collards were eaten by worms. Peppers are doing OK, did get some beauties from Purple Beauty and Gypsy so far. No root crops survived, mostly due to weeds. Tomatoes have been a trial. Stupice produced first and has kept pumping them out. I've had a few Black Krims (this variety has been a consistent winner for me over the years. Taste is not like the Cherokees or Carbon but it just keeps pumping them out despite hardship) and a Lucky Cross that was great. I had originally thought I had a strange disease problem but it turns out that it is BER coupled with a very bad sting bug infestation. Black Cherry, Snow White and Sweet Baby Girl have all won kudos from both DH and my workplace. I have been offered money for them, LOL! I of course just keep filling the containers DH brings home and tell them to appreciate the diversity, such that it is. I have modified my plans for next year time and again and it may change before fall. To combat or rectify my mistakes of this year I plan to:
1. New garden plot next to the house. The concept of this year's garden was good but not well thought out. It is too far from the house, next to the barn and enclosed in a tall fence (previous owners had Emus). I thought that was a dandy place, fertile and safe from deer. I did not consider the wind, pasture weeds or pests...grasshoppers. Plus, I have not seen a single deer on the property, LOL.
2. Smaller is better. I would rather plant 20 tomato plants and have them do well than the 60 or so I did this year and have them fail. When I think of all the work that went into it, I get ill.
3. Floating row covers for my brassicas
4. Drip irrigation to help with the BER and other problems associated with weather conditions.
5. Some kind of mulch. I did mulch with straw but it was no match for the terrible bind weed problem out there. You know you are in trouble when you go to pick a bale of straw up and the bind weed has grown up through it!!! DH is going to try to zap it in the fall, we have had recommendations for products and timing to spray.
6. I will spray chemicals. I appreciate the non-chemical stance but if left to natural remedies, I will have nothing again next year. I will spray early and often. For the amount of beans I planted, I should be begging people to take them off my hands as well as a cupboard full of canned product. I've barely had one meal and that was coupled with some squash since I didn't have enough.
7. I will NOT, under any circumstance, accept manure from neighbors and friends. I will use my own chick poo if needed but this year I got a load of sand burrs and other nasties from the manure.

Those are my plans so far. I have ventured from the raised beds that I wanted so much. I have a son getting married and I don't think the finances will be so I can do things the way I want them. If I invest in raised beds, I want them exactly how I want, ya know? So, I will remove some turf and till and add compost for the coming year.

[OmahaJB]

Lori,

Thanks for the post. I sometimes wonder if people actually enjoy the updates or if they are just reading them because they are new posts to read. I do see the 'views' going up slowly but steadily, so have continued updating this thread. Posts like yours are great to get! At least I know I'm not just posting for my own satisfaction. And by the way, I do enjoy posting the updates because it helps me put things in order in my own mind. Then later maybe I can read back through my own posts and figure out ways I could do things better.

I enjoyed reading how your experience with your garden is going this year. Too bad about the grasshoppers and other problems you've had. But at least you had enough planted that you were able to harvest some things.

Something that caught my eye, you mentioned you already harvested your potatoes. I'm curious when you planted them and also if that is the normal time to harvest potatoes in your area. The reason I ask is because on the potato forum I noticed some folks wait until mid-late September. I've been really anxious to dump one of my growbags to get a few salad sized potatoes at least, but worry I may even be jumping the gun to get that size. Since I only have 11 growbags of taters I'm not comfortable with the idea of potentially wasting one by harvesting way too early.
Beans are kind of a sore subject with me. I purchased 4 varieties from SSE, types like Boston Favorite and Calypso, but couldn't grow them this year due to space limitations when starting seedlings. I bought them 2 years ago and worry they wont be good next winter when I start my seeds. I really wanted to give them a try so am disappointed.

But then again was disappointed when most all of my seedlings went down with some type of fungus. Besides Black Cherry the only OP's I have are 1884 which is stingy in producing fruit and Mammoth German Gold which I can't expect to do much considering all the challenges it's had. And I do have the Czech's Bush that was another of the stumps that I expect nothing from. It's still very small.

Another thing I'm curious about Lori, have you had any challenges with drought? I know you can water, but when I lived in Omaha drought affected alot of farmers and gardeners especially in the central & western parts of the state.

Thanks again for chiming in. Feel free to use this thread if you wish to update your garden as well. I enjoyed reading your post. And I encourage others to share their updates unless they prefer to do so in the general discussion area.

It's nice to know there are folks following my (boring) upates. Only wish I had more varieties to talk about! Next year!! Hopefully...

[OmahaJB]

August 10th:

Stopped by to water the garden real quick. The Big Beef tomato that was closest to being ripe had BER so I pulled it off the vine. Have to get this 'even watering' thing down a little better.

Took 3 more Black Cherry tomatoes home to finish ripening.

Other than that everything looks ok or at least as expected. Too early to tell if the Mammoth German Gold flower pollinated or not. Some of the vegetation on the potato plants is already brown and appears dead. Still a little hesitant to cut it off in case 'transferring' of energy is still going on deep inside somewhere somehow.

One thing's for sure, I'll be more organized next year when I start seeds. For a number of reasons I wasn't able to do things when & how I wanted to. I'll be planting out earlier even if it means buying a few 'wall-o-water' thingies to protect the plants. It's disheartening to see things like the melons, corn, and a couple tomato plants growing knowing I wont get any produce out of them. All planted too late.

Next year...yeah....next year...

[fourtgn]

Omaha,
Don't worry, we're not just reading because the posts are new! I tried to grow some tomatoes from seed the last two years, but each time had to go out of state for several weeks in the middle of July and, of course, everything was dead when I returned. This is the first year I have had a chance to stay put and see this garden thing through. I don't have anyone that I can watch do the job, so I have found your thread and followed what you are doing. Hope you don't mind being watched!

I have grown a lot of gardens in the past, in a different zone, but this is new to me. I am THRILLED to see my tomato plants growing, blooming, and setting fruit. But these are the ones I got at the garden center and they just say Big Cherry on them. My heirlooms are smaller and I am counting on the long growing season down here to see some fruit from them. I still can't believe that I sprouted them and got them this far alive. Even if they don't make fruit before it freezes down here, now I know that I can do it.

I've already got a map of the gardens for next year up and going.

Can't wait for your next post. Don't forget those pictures!
fourtgn

[fourtgn]

Gardengal,
Sorry to hear about the grasshoppers. That must be awful. I know what you mean about having the garden closer to the house, though. My first garden here in Texas was a five minute walk from the front door in a place where you couldn't even see it. Needless to say, when I got busy, the garden was forgotten. I am a very out-of-sight, out-of-mind kind of person.
I am excited to hear about next years successes with your veggies!

fourtgn

[OmahaJB]

Glad to see you are enjoying the thread, fourtgn. Sometimes though I feel like I'm repeating myself somewhat when I type my weekly updates. Probably should have done them more sporadically waiting until I really had some news to report! I've even bored myself when I've read back through my posts. LOL...

Wish I could take some pics to post, but I have an old WebTV I bought in 2000, and no digital camera anyways. When I strike it rich though I do plan on buying those types of goodies.

BTW, couldn't you time your growouts so you have two harvests a year? Late spring/early summer and fall? I notice some people in the warmer zones have fall gardens so I wonder if that could work for you. I had thoughts of trying a fall garden but in zone 5 my garden could easily get wiped out by an early freeze. My fall garden will have to be everything I planted out too late in the spring! Which was way too many things!

Have fun growing in Texas. That has to be a challenging environment to grow vegetables in, considering the heat and pests you must have.

Jeff

[fourtgn]

I probably can do the garden timing just like you have suggested. I got off because I did not start my garden until early June this year. Here's the deal: I have a persimmon tree in my back yard; it can be seen from the front yard. This past Thanksgiving, I was pretty sick, so I waited a week to harvest the tree. When I went out, someone had come and harvested all but the very top 3 fruits! We talked to our neighbors and found out that it had happened that weekend. The neighbors saw the tree, remember thinking about which fruit they wanted (we share), and when they came home, all gone. Whoever it was cut each one down instead of pulling it. You could see where the marks were. They had to have used a ladder as the tree limbs wouldn't even support a small child. (Sorry, I'm still mad about this.) Our guess is that they sold the produce.

I figured why bother planting a garden? Some jerk is just going to come steal everything anyway. By June, I had changed my mind. I know several people here in my town who have been eating tomatos for weeks and whose fall gardens even have young tomatoes in them. I have some in mine, too, but don't know if there is enough time left.

How's that for the long story?

Keep up the reports and hopefully you find $1000 laying around on the ground and be able to pick up a camera!

fourtgn

[gardengalrn]

Jeff, I planted them on March 24th. They got infested with beetles and the plants were dying so I went ahead and pulled them. I would say weeks to even a month ago. They were small but decent for new potatoes and were delicious. I would think that as long as your plants are still alive, you can leave them be. I was of the understanding that you harvest when the plants start to die back. As far as drought, I think it has definitely been hard on the garden. It was such a wet spring then BAM...nothing for quite some time. I want to get drip irrigation for next year, I really think that is the way to go to try to avoid uneven watering and water on the foliage.
Oh, and I wanted to mention that the bean seeds should be fine. I had bought new seed for several varieties but went ahead and planted some Rattlesnake, which were at least 4 years old. They sprouted right along with the others. I had worried because I don't think bean/pea seeds have the viability that tomato seeds do.