plastic gallon milk cartons

[ChiliPeppa]

Doing a lot of planning already for next years garden. My area is so difficult to grow tomatoes in. I'm in 8a, but the 3 digit temps can start in June. So if I wait till April 1st to set out plants, well, not much time to get fruit. Last year I got started late and set out in May. I finally got some tomatoes in Sept. So anyway, I'm thinking start seeds early and set out March?? And my question is does the plastic milk jug thing actually work to protect against frost? Any info and suggestions appreciated.

[Gardeneer]

Originally Posted by ChiliPeppa

Doing a lot of planning already for next years garden. My area is so difficult to grow tomatoes in. I'm in 8a, but the 3 digit temps can start in June. So if I wait till April 1st to set out plants, well, not much time to get fruit. Last year I got started late and set out in May. I finally got some tomatoes in Sept. So anyway, I'm thinking start seeds early and set out March?? And my question is does the plastic milk jug thing actually work to protect against frost? Any info and suggestions appreciated.

Yeah. I think you should try planting out as early as possible.
In case of cold you can try mini hoops . Tomatoes can tolerate cold air down to mid 30s. for short hours at nights. Another tool is using WOW to keep the soil around the plant warm. Tomato roots are more sensitive to soil temperature than air temperature. 55F and higher is fine.
Plastic milk jug is not big enough for tomato plants. Get some WOW. Or as I said , make mini hoops , about 4 ft tall . It is easy to make. Need few 1/2" pvc and some 8 mil clear plastic.
BTW: I have been doing all these things last couple of seasons, to extend my growing season.

[PaulF]

I think several studies have been done concerning the utility of milk jugs protecting against frost. The one I remember indicated that plastic milk jugs actually decrease the temps inside the jugs at night. They do work as wind protection for small plants.

[AlittleSalt]

The growing temperatures here are about the same. A hundred degree day or three in June happens here too. I use big plastic totes and/or 5 gallon buckets with a brick on top with leaves or a bed sheet inside. I also grow extra plants that I don't plant just in case a freeze kills the ones I planted - then I have a replacement.

[Worth1]

Originally Posted by ChiliPeppa

Doing a lot of planning already for next years garden. My area is so difficult to grow tomatoes in. I'm in 8a, but the 3 digit temps can start in June. So if I wait till April 1st to set out plants, well, not much time to get fruit. Last year I got started late and set out in May. I finally got some tomatoes in Sept. So anyway, I'm thinking start seeds early and set out March?? And my question is does the plastic milk jug thing actually work to protect against frost? Any info and suggestions appreciated.

Set them out in March use cages and protect with plastic wrap and light bulbs in each cage.
From living in 29 Palms on and off for a while I do know how the temperatures can fluctuate from hot in the daytime to very cold (even freezing)at night.
We used rubber air mattresses to separate us from the ground while sleeping at night.
We also draped wool blankets over us and white towels over our head to keep cool in the summer as crazy as that may seem.
We looked like Bedouins.


Worth

[ABlindHog]

I am planning to try clear plastic trash bags over tomato cages filled loosly with straw to protect plants from freezes this year. good luck to us both.

[JLJ_]

I've known several people who used milk bottles -- with bottoms and caps removed -- for large scale short term -- 2 or three weeks? -- frost protection to enable them to set tomato plants out early, and have had great results doing just that -- but it's not enough here -- so you might need to experiment to find what works for you.

People hiking past my gardens often stop and nudge one another, and occasionally ask me if I'm growing bottles, as I start almost everything in bottles. (Not onions, garlic -- things that don't mind frost -- but about everything else.)

What works for me is 3 liter water bottles, bottoms and caps removed, set over small tomatoes, peppers, or over soaked, sprouted corn seeds to enclose them in a "mini greenhouse". It works with beans, too, but even with protection they want the temps higher than the other things mentioned will accept.

Lately, I've been planting cold tolerant things like carrots and beets inside water bottle protection, too -- to protect the seedlings from birds and voles.

I generally plant fairly good size tomato plants deep, so, though what is visible looks small, and will fit in the water bottle without crowding, it's actually the top portion of a good size plant. If I can, I water the area with warm water before planting, and as often as I can afterwards, to keep soil temps up -- but that isn't always possible for me and tomatoes in the water bottles still do fine, voles permitting. I'm sure the effect of the clear water bottle "greenhouse" around the plant helps to warm the soil around each little plant.

I sometimes use milk bottles full of water around -- or in a row on the north side of -- the water bottles to provide extra heat . That's helpful, but I haven't done it as much lately, as the voles use the water bottles as ladders to get into the protective water bottle collars.

Sometimes if tomatoes are getting too large for their 3 liter water bottles I cut off the top of the water bottle -- leaving perhaps an eight or ten inch tall clear collar around the tomato plant, and put a milk bottle with bottom and cap removed over the top of the water bottle collar, to add a little shade and to continue temp protection.

This year, when the tomatoes got too large for their single water bottle, I cut the top off the water bottle, then added another water bottle, with bottom removed and also top cut off, and vertical slits cut in the bottom edge of the upper water bottle so it would sit firmly on the lower one. I topped that with a milk bottle. That was not for weather protection , but to give the plants protection from voles until they could get bigger. Usually a single water bottle "greenhouse" around a tomato plant has been enough to ward off voles, but not this year. In low-vole years the water bottle protection from weather and birds is much simpler.

That will give you some ideas, hopefully. What specific approach works for you will depend on your situation -- but water and milk bottles can be very helpful in extending your season. For me, most years, the little bit earlier plant out the bottles make possible is the difference between having a pretty good crop of things like tomatoes and corn -- and getting little or no yield from those things.

[ChiliPeppa]

Wow, thanks everyone for the responses. Lots of helpful info. So Worth, how early in March do you suggest to set out? And seeds started when?

[Gardeneer]

As I opinioned, milk jugs are not big enough fo 6 weeks old tomato transplants.
Clear 3 liter water bottles ar also too narrow. They are often used as Wall Of Water . Several of them filled with water ( capped) arranged in a circle around the plants. So you have to have quite a lot of them.
I find Worth' suggestion most practical. I make small cages from rabbit fence and wrap them with bubble wrap. see the picture below.
You'll see another trick of mine in the picture: Beds covered with black plastic , months before plant out to warm up the soil and keep it dry. We get a lot of rain here.
Hope you find this useful.
Gardeneer

[ChiliPeppa]

Very useful. Thank you Gardeneer!

[Worth1]

Originally Posted by ChiliPeppa

Wow, thanks everyone for the responses. Lots of helpful info. So Worth, how early in March do you suggest to set out? And seeds started when?

From year to year the weather can change here due to the Jet Stream dipping down to great us.
But the very first of March if there isn't any bad weather in the forecast.
If a late freeze does come I have stacked hay up over the plants that are about 18 inches tall at this time.
I normally start seeds around the 25th of December.

Worth

[ChiliPeppa]

Thank you Worth!

[JLJ_]

I'm not going to get into a quarrel about this, but I'm not going to let it pass, either. Milk bottles and 3 liter water bottles are *not* too narrow for young tomato plants -- as discussed above I (and many others) have used them with very good results.

No technique is right for every situation, and most helpful techniques have some drawbacks. Everyone has to try ideas that have worked for others to find what helps them. But when *anyone* says "I saw this in my garden" or "this worked for me" a response of the "that couldn't happen" or "that can't work" sort is never appropriate or constructive. RRRROWWWRR! (Not growling just about this thread, but about all such remarks, whenever and wherever they occur.)

Black material on the ground *is* a helpful suggestion. If you are looking for heat, but not wishing to keep ground dry, as is often the case for those of us in low rainfall areas, there are rolls of 3' wide anti weed "fabric", which look like plastic but are actually somewhat porous that can be helpful for that purpose. Even just dealing with the varieties walmart carries, though, not all such rolls are equal -- some are much more durable and effective than others -- and considering all the many sources for such material, it can take some hunting to find the best type for any particular situation.

So there's no simple answer, but if you put what does work for various people together, there's sure to be a season extending answer that will help you.

[Worth1]

Well back in the good old days we didn't have plastic milk jugs or water bottles.
What's a poor hill folk to do?
Big coffee cans is what we used and we stored them in the shed.
We would put out small plants early and cover them up if there was a danger of frost or a light freeze
When we planted tomatoes the cans came with them as part of the planting process.
This way we weren't scrambling to gather up the cans..
We didn't have all of the weather stations and the internet back then either.
To figure out if it was going to frost we had to take a humidity reading and figure out what the dew point was going to be.
Then from experience and the predicted temperature we would know if it was going to frost.
We did this with a barometer a thermometer and a hygrometer.
What would people do today without the weather channel.
I'll take an intelligent hillbilly over an educated idiot any day of the week.

Worth

[ChiliPeppa]

Ok, well I also have lots of 5 gal black plastic pots. Perhaps that would work better? I'm keeping in mind the hoop thing, actually it would be more like a large wood frame, because in the heat I plan to put up shade cloth so I will need some sort of structure for that. I'm looking to use items that I already own, not go out purchasing more stuff.