In what order should sprays be applied? Spray Schedule...

[MrSalvage]

Originally Posted by decherdt

Since some rain was forecast, I added AgriFos to this morning's Daconil + BT.

Just out of curiosity is any of these used as a cocktail of sorts or sprayed separate. I have never heard of AgriFos would you care to share a link to the correct product?

You rock man...

[MrSalvage]

We did a little bit of work yesterday to our 20 tomato plants. I hope to have a lot more tomato plants next year. Anyway once we removed all the weeds we pruned them all up. They were very bushy and growing really good. It seemed like such a waste on all the extra growth. So off everything came up to the first fruit set. Then we bobbed some of the very long top leaves so they wouldn't touch the ground as well (AKA Rutgers). We then side dressed with a little compost & 17-17-17. Then we staked out all of the plants. Then we took 2nd cut hay and mulched the 4 little rows we have. In the hopes of not getting any dirt up onto the plants. Then of course we watered them in and I didn't see a bit of dirt splash up onto them at all.

The hay came from a family friend about 2 miles up our dirt road. They were out bailing the second cutting when we picked it up. So the hay is really green and fresh. While we were there my girl was asking about the chemicals they use on the hay. Well they told us that no chemicals are ever used on first and second cutting. That only the third cutting would get fungicide and that's the way it's been forever.


So after all that work last night I figured we better not spray anything. I didn't want to put to much pressure on the plants after all that we done to them. So I am going to start our spray program up for the year tonight if all looks well.

I hope to start out with the bleach then follow up with daconil tomorrow morning. Then of course the insecticide maybe on Wednesday.

I hope this all turns out well. Since we are in our first year we sure are learning. All of our neighbors say we are doing really well for a first year garden in a clay soil.

[decherdt]

Might have read the 2" bit here
http://www.caf.wvu.edu/kearneysville...aseweather.htm

MSU gets into some other ones
http://msue.anr.msu.edu/news/the_cha...g_rainy_spells

In general both BT and spinosad are natural products and can be certified for organic pest control in the US OMRI for organic commercial production. Although it will work on hornworm, I cannot support replacing BT with spinosad for them. BT works fine for hornworms.

BT is a certain specific bacteria, or it's spores, with toxin in solution. If a catapiller eats some leaf with BT on it, the bacteria toxin activates, the worm stops feeding, and dies. It only works on catapillers, and only if they eat it. So, BT does not hurt beneficial insects, aquatic life, mammals etc (check the label)
http://web.utk.edu/~jurat/Btresearchtable.html
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bacillus_thuringiensis

Spinosad is a mix of two already produced and processed toxins from a different bacteria. It kills most insects that eat it, especially the larva. Also labeled for thrips, leafminers, ants, others, (check the label). It can kill beneficial insects, but not mammals, (it is in some dog flea pills, and head lice treatments, more) There is also a maximum number of applications per year, check the label, and probably a "no harvest" time period after application (PHI, check the label)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spinosad

So if all you need to treat for is catapillers (hornworms), BT by itself works really well, has no harvest interruption and no maximum applications per year, is not toxic to beneficials, mammals, or aquatic life

I never had enough leaf miners on tomato to treat for them, but if/when I get more thrips than blue sticky cards can manage, spinosad is labeled for them, and applied early in the morning or early evening, before/after honey bee activity it works well enough. It has a very short harvest interruption (1 day PHI check your label). I have to mange frequency, maybe back to back applications a week apart as needed up to six . Only applied twice so far this year.

I hear that beneficial nematodes may work even better than spinosad on thrips

[BigVanVader]

Originally Posted by decherdt

Since some rain was forecast, I added AgriFos to this morning's Daconil + BT.

How do you like Agrifos?

Edit: And to update the Spinosad killed thrips and caterpillars within 24 hours.

[decherdt]

Originally Posted by MrSalvage

Just out of curiosity is any of these used as a cocktail of sorts or sprayed separate. I have never heard of AgriFos would you care to share a link to the correct product?

I really only mentioned it to demonstrate a "tank mix", I don't think I can recommend it specifically. Many products can be applied together as a tank mix.
Some cannot be. I do apply BT mixed with Daconil as a tank mix.

[decherdt]

Originally Posted by BigVanVader

How do you like Agrifos?
.

Not sure I can tell the difference, maybe like Daconil or copper, it probably works ok but not a silver bullet, I don't see big effect during a raging fungal apocalypse we get when it rains 26 out of 30 days. It is labeled for tomatoes. As it is systemic, it is rain fast.

[decherdt]

Originally Posted by MrSalvage

We did a little bit of work yesterday to our 20 tomato plants....... first year garden in a clay soil.

You have a great looking set up and have done yourself mucho good with your wide spacings and mulching. Plus, first year soil won't have years of built up tomato fugal spores. "Bottom water" and it should be a good season, good luck.

[MrSalvage]

Originally Posted by b54red

First off if you haven't had a lot of rain and no disease symptoms are present then I would just start with spraying Daconil and applying BT as a preventative for worms.

If you already are seeing disease issues then use the dilute bleach spray late in the evening and then the next morning or night use Daconil or copper depending on the diseases you are seeing. I find that copper seems to work better for spot and speck diseases and Daconil for most others and some of the spot and speck diseases. I like to alternate them from week to week and use the bleach spray when necessary and as often as necessary.

If I have to use a pesticide I like to apply it the next day after the fungicide and only very late in the evening to avoid harming bees as much as possible. I sometimes use a mix of food grade DE in a soapy water solution (make sure to strain it into your sprayer to avoid clogging) with some Permethrin to stop stink bugs, leaf footed bugs, aphids, spider mites and whiteflies. The problem with this mix is it is not selective and will kill almost any insects good and bad so don't use it unless the problem is out of control or you beneficials have mostly moved on.

I also use Sevin dust at the base of squash plants on the stem to prevent Squash Vine Borers. I use a bulb duster and apply it along the lower stem below the flowers and am careful not to get the dust on the flowers. I also use Seven liquid spray for certain hard to fight boring worms like pickle worms on cucumbers and squash when necessary. I also use it to fight those minuscule leaf eating worms that show up in spring and early summer on tomatoes and peppers if they get bad enough and to fight the stem borers that can hit tomatoes and cucumber vines though I have only had them a few times over the years. When it is necessary to use Sevin it is better to only apply it as far up the plant as necessary to take care of the problem and thus avoid spraying too many of the blooms which can hurt bees and of course spray it only just before dark.

So far this year I have used the bleach spray on my tomatoes, peppers, squash and cucumbers 4 or 5 times already and have used Daconil on all of them around 5 times and copper a couple of times since the spot and speck diseases just recently started showing up. I have used no contact killers like DE or Permethrin yet and hope I don't have to but I had to use my mix twice last year because of a bad infestation of leaf footed bugs and stink bugs.

None of the things I use in the garden are toxic enough to really need protective clothing when applying but I do avoid the mist and will wear a mask if spraying when the wind makes avoiding some drift almost impossible. I wear glasses so have never gotten any spray in my eyes but if I didn't I might wear googles when spraying some of them. If I do get a bit on my skin I will take a shower after spraying. You definitely don't want to breath the mist of any of them or get any in your eyes so use care when applying any of them.

Hope this helps.

Bill, have you used the bleach on other stuff like Beans, Broccoli, Collards, Lettuce, Mustard Greens, Okra & Pea's?

[MrSalvage]

Originally Posted by MrSalvage

Bill, have you used the bleach on other stuff like Beans, Broccoli, Collards, Lettuce, Mustard Greens, Okra & Pea's?

Let me add Rose Bushes & Sunflowers too...

[Cole_Robbie]

I'm waiting on my Spinosad to arrive. I also ordered a spreading agent called SM-90. People are saying the SM-90 by itself will kill whiteflies, probably from a soap-like effect.

SM-90 ingredients:
1% Coriander Oil
94% Sulphonated Canola Oil Solution
5% Triethanolamine

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Triethanolamine
Triethanolamine is used primarily as an emulsifier and surfactant. It is a common ingredient in formulations used for both industrial and consumer products. The triethanolamine neutralizes fatty acids, adjusts and buffers the pH, and solubilises oils and other ingredients that are not completely soluble in water.

[BigVanVader]

Spinosad worked great for me, the only thing I find odd is you can only spray a few times per year. But so far I've not seen anymore thrips.

[Cole_Robbie]

you can only spray a few times per year.

I did not realize that. What is the rationale?

[BigVanVader]

No idea. I think the limit was 4 or 5 for vegetable crops.

[fonseca]

I sprayed Spinosad for the third time yesterday. On the first application, dozens of whiteflies per plant would take flight. Second application there were only a few per plant. Last night I did not see any living whiteflies. Spinosad appears to be significantly more effective than neem oil for this pest. I have now sprayed three times over the course of their full lifecycle.

I only had whiteflies in the greenhouse, on kale and mustards. They haven't touched tomato or pepper plants.

[decherdt]

Originally Posted by Cole_Robbie

you can only spray a few times per year.

I did not realize that. What is the rationale?

Resistance management. Too many applications per season and thrips develop restistance.