I like the new key hole garden concept! - Page 2

Ken4230 · February 15, 2014

Mine are made from a 55 gal. plastic barrel cut in half. The center tube is made from 1/4" hardware cloth set inside a child's sandbox pail. I have used 3 lb. plastic coffee cans before.
I grow mostly lettuce, carrots, green onions.. ect in them. I started out just putting kitchen trimmings, coffee grounds and compost directly in the bottom of the pail. That was a huge mistake, it smelled to high heaven.
Now i fill the pail with 3/4" rock and cover it with weed barrier cloth. That seems to work really well.

I spent several months in a hospital in Japan in the late 60's and got to see some of the ways they garden. They practiced this concept but didn't use a container.
Most of the ones that weren't round usually had a short stone wall holding the soil in. The round ones were built by piling soil up in a big mound around a large pipe. 6" wide x 6" tall was about normal, if i remember right.
There wasn't a bare spot anywhere on the mounds. When they harvested something, they replanted right then.

I use bottomless coffee cans in my raised beds now. Vegie peelings, old cornbread and just about any dry scraps go in the cans and the lids go back on.

Ken

pondgardener · February 15, 2014

Worth,

What would the drawbacks be of using all 3/4" PVC Sch40 for everything? Would the 3/4" bend enough? Or glue a bushing and then use 1/2" PVC Sch40 pipe for the outside wall circumference and 3/4" for the vertical bracing? The PVC is quite a bit cheaper than the EMT pipe.

George

bobberman · February 15, 2014

Compost in a barrel work best if you add a shovel of garden soil once a week to cover the kitchen scraps. That will stop the smell! I also like to throw in a little hand full every 2 weeks of urea which you can buy cheap from Agway for less than a $1 a pound! It works just like manure!

Doug9345 · February 15, 2014

Quote:

Originally Posted by pondgardener

Worth,

What would the drawbacks be of using all 3/4" PVC Sch40 for everything? Would the 3/4" bend enough? Or glue a bushing and then use 1/2" PVC Sch40 pipe for the outside wall circumference and 3/4" for the vertical bracing? The PVC is quite a bit cheaper than the EMT pipe.

George

In Lowes 1/2" PVC pipe is $1.80 per 10' and EMT is $2.34. Given that EMT is stiffer, stronger and can be bent into a circle that doesn't straighten out when you let go of it, I think EMT is the way to go.

If I was building them, I'd be very tempted to build a jug so that I could use a hole saw to put a fish mouth on the vertical pieces and braze the whole thing together.

Worth1 · February 15, 2014

Quote:

Originally Posted by pondgardener

Worth,

What would the drawbacks be of using all 3/4" PVC Sch40 for everything? Would the 3/4" bend enough? Or glue a bushing and then use 1/2" PVC Sch40 pipe for the outside wall circumference and 3/4" for the vertical bracing? The PVC is quite a bit cheaper than the EMT pipe.

George

The only drawback would be the straight pieces.

If a person were to build one of the smaller round ones without the key slot it would be fine.
But the idea of bending the PVC to that small of a radius would be problematic.

What you can do is build a PVC heat box.
Expensive if you buy them.

Or get a heat gun.
What I do.

You would then be better off buying a sheet of plywood and building a jig that is curved to the radius you want.
If you cant do this or dont have the equipment you can get a cabinet shop to cut it out for you.

Once you have the right jig you would take the PVC cut at the right lengths and slowly heat it up you will want to cap off both ends, this will keep it from collapsing.
Move the heat gun up and down the pipe till it becomes flexible.
Don't scorch the pipe.
Bend the pipe around the jig/mandrel and spray some cold water on it so it will cool.

Once you have all of your bends and all of it put together you can then clean it up good with a scotch bright pad.
Buy some of that fancy paint that sticks to plastic and go to town painting the frame.

I wouldn't even bother with drilling all of those holes for tie wraps.
I would get some short self tapping screws to attach the frame to the roofing material.

Worth

Worth1 · February 15, 2014

Quote:

Originally Posted by Doug9345

In Lowes 1/2" PVC pipe is $1.80 per 10' and EMT is $2.34. Given that EMT is stiffer, stronger and can be bent into a circle that doesn't straighten out when you let go of it, I think EMT is the way to go.

If I was building them, I'd be very tempted to build a jug so that I could use a hole saw to put a fish mouth on the vertical pieces and braze the whole thing together.

I was thinking the same thing, with a drill press you could use the right hole saw and notch the vertical ends to fit the horizontal ends.
With my TIG welder this would be a breeze.
I want one of these so bad, I could and would do so much with it.
I already have all of the conduit benders for the small radius stuff.
Worth

pondgardener · February 15, 2014

Doug9345,
You are right, the conduit would be sturdier. When I went to Lowes, I was pricing the rigid conduit and not the thin wall, so like you mentioned, the cost difference is not that great.

Worth,
Thank you for your help and descriptive post. I have used Sch40 pipe previously building a small protective framework for putting out early plants and as a cover for early season hailstorms, although we don't get those Texas-sixed hailstones here where I am at. And I should have done what you suggested instead of just assembling the whole structure and letting the sun decide how the shape would turn out.

George

bobberman · February 15, 2014

The key hole garden can also be used as a cold frame and I thing the compost in the middle will warm up the early cold frame especially if some manure or urea was added in the middle container!

Worth1 · February 15, 2014

Just a suggestion and I dont know how well it would work but electrical grade PVC conduit is sunlight resistant and can be used above ground.
It is a little floppier than water pipe.
It is also rated for heat bending.

The outside diameter is the same as PVC for water pipe and they have some oddball fittings that may be useful.

Worth

pondgardener · February 15, 2014

Worth,

We are thinking along the same lines. I was rummaging through a pile of odds and ends in my shed and found a piece of Sch80 3/4" electrical conduit and inserted a piece of 1/2" EMT and it fit perfectly. Now to see if I can find tees to fit which shouldn't be a problem.

George

Worth1 · February 15, 2014

Quote:

Originally Posted by pondgardener

Worth,

We are thinking along the same lines. I was rummaging through a pile of odds and ends in my shed and found a piece of Sch80 3/4" electrical conduit and inserted a piece of 1/2" EMT and it fit perfectly. Now to see if I can find tees to fit which shouldn't be a problem.

George

I need someone to come and rummage through my stuff and take it away.

I dont even want to see what they got.

Worth

February 15, 2014	#16
Ken4230 Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: Western Ky Posts: 282	I have two "redneck" versions now Mine are made from a 55 gal. plastic barrel cut in half. The center tube is made from 1/4" hardware cloth set inside a child's sandbox pail. I have used 3 lb. plastic coffee cans before. I grow mostly lettuce, carrots, green onions.. ect in them. I started out just putting kitchen trimmings, coffee grounds and compost directly in the bottom of the pail. That was a huge mistake, it smelled to high heaven. Now i fill the pail with 3/4" rock and cover it with weed barrier cloth. That seems to work really well. I spent several months in a hospital in Japan in the late 60's and got to see some of the ways they garden. They practiced this concept but didn't use a container. Most of the ones that weren't round usually had a short stone wall holding the soil in. The round ones were built by piling soil up in a big mound around a large pipe. 6" wide x 6" tall was about normal, if i remember right. There wasn't a bare spot anywhere on the mounds. When they harvested something, they replanted right then. I use bottomless coffee cans in my raised beds now. Vegie peelings, old cornbread and just about any dry scraps go in the cans and the lids go back on. Ken

February 15, 2014	#17
pondgardener Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Mar 2013 Location: Colorado Posts: 361	Worth, What would the drawbacks be of using all 3/4" PVC Sch40 for everything? Would the 3/4" bend enough? Or glue a bushing and then use 1/2" PVC Sch40 pipe for the outside wall circumference and 3/4" for the vertical bracing? The PVC is quite a bit cheaper than the EMT pipe. George __________________ “Live as if you'll die tomorrow, but farm as if you'll live forever.” Old Proverb

February 15, 2014	#18
bobberman Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Dec 2011 Location: Latrobe Pa. Posts: 142	Compost in a barrel work best if you add a shovel of garden soil once a week to cover the kitchen scraps. That will stop the smell! I also like to throw in a little hand full every 2 weeks of urea which you can buy cheap from Agway for less than a $1 a pound! It works just like manure! __________________ Frank the Bobberman & Carpet Installer Inventor of the Bobber With A Brain,. Gadening, Greenhouse, Fishing, Softball, Scrabble. Single looking for a woman with a 100 acre farm!

February 15, 2014	#22
pondgardener Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Mar 2013 Location: Colorado Posts: 361	Doug9345, You are right, the conduit would be sturdier. When I went to Lowes, I was pricing the rigid conduit and not the thin wall, so like you mentioned, the cost difference is not that great. Worth, Thank you for your help and descriptive post. I have used Sch40 pipe previously building a small protective framework for putting out early plants and as a cover for early season hailstorms, although we don't get those Texas-sixed hailstones here where I am at. And I should have done what you suggested instead of just assembling the whole structure and letting the sun decide how the shape would turn out. George __________________ “Live as if you'll die tomorrow, but farm as if you'll live forever.” Old Proverb

February 15, 2014	#23
bobberman Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Dec 2011 Location: Latrobe Pa. Posts: 142	The key hole garden can also be used as a cold frame and I thing the compost in the middle will warm up the early cold frame especially if some manure or urea was added in the middle container! __________________ Frank the Bobberman & Carpet Installer Inventor of the Bobber With A Brain,. Gadening, Greenhouse, Fishing, Softball, Scrabble. Single looking for a woman with a 100 acre farm!

February 15, 2014	#24
Worth1 Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Den of Drunken Fools Posts: 38,539	Just a suggestion and I dont know how well it would work but electrical grade PVC conduit is sunlight resistant and can be used above ground. It is a little floppier than water pipe. It is also rated for heat bending. The outside diameter is the same as PVC for water pipe and they have some oddball fittings that may be useful. Worth