Potato berries and TPS (true potato seed)

[Tom Wagner]

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1. Another step in potato seed extraction
2. Note the berries and water in blender
3. Chopped berries strained to separate pulp from seed
4. Seed and some water to float off impurities see wineglass

[ddsack]

Tom, couldn't see any of the last post's pics on soaking and rinsing, but thanks for the great info on your seed processing steps. I can't imagine the work involved in keeping all your varieties possible potato pedigrees straight. I am so looking forward to see what comes up from my seeds next year.

Dee

[Tom Wagner]

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After several failed attempts to load two or more thumbnails, I am supposing only one at a time.

This photo shows the TPS at work. When I chopped up the potato berries in a blender with water with about 100 berries, I then screened the seed through a coarse sieve that allowed the seed to pass but not the mass of pulp. I then floated off the finer pulp by pouring the excess water out of the bowl. When all that is left but some gel coated seed, I add about 1 tbsp of TSP. This eats off the gel and totally preps the seed for the chlorine soak, coming up next.

[Tom Wagner]

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This is an important step to use. Rinsing the seed with hot water before the drying process.

[Tom Wagner]

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The photo belonging to the chlorine rinse message

[svalli]

Originally Posted by Tom Wagner

Pictured in a variety of potato that I bred up (Nordic October) and am certifying the variety for replanting as nuclear certified seed potatoes.

Tom,

Does the name of this new variety reflect Nordic pedigree or why did you select such name?

Sari,
who wishes to be back in Nordic soon...

[Tom Wagner]

Does the name of this new variety reflect Nordic pedigree or why did you select such name?

Sari,

About the name Nordic October.

• The area I am growing my potatoes have been settled mostly by Nordic peoples.
• I have some Norwegian Viking in me from the I.O.M.
• A big part of the pedigree of this variety derives for NORth Dakota breeding lines.
• Pedigree includes Norland, Norchief and the female parent NorDonna.
• I checked the pedigree background and I can't find a classic Nordic potato variety in the mix.
• I have a habit of naming new selections based on the female and male parents in that order. NorDonna crossed with Red October is shortened to Nor-October signifying the direction of the cross.
• I already have a Northern October variety.
• Nordic October sounds better because I am in virtual Nordic north country.
• I harvest in October when the fall colors are red red...
• My memory of a potato variety has structural recognition mnenomics.
• You wanted to know and I told you the gist of it.

[Tom Wagner]

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Dumping the cleaned seed onto paper for drying. The seed here would plant several acres of potato seedling transplants.
The caveat of potato seed is that it needs a few months of aging before sowing. The germination inhibitors are high for about a year. After that the seed is good for 20 years, 50 years in controlled storage.

The TSP treatment allows the TPS to rid itself of some the inhibitors found in the gel. So if you don't use Trisodium Phosphate (TSP) you may have germination problems more than I will.

Tom Wagner

[svalli]

You seem to have plenty of reasons to name your variety Nordic October. Maybe it would also grow well in the Nordic countries, if it ever lands there. Early October is also a good for potato harvesting over there, even my mother-in-law had already insisted that their potatoes to be dug up in mid September this year. Then she complained that the skins were still too thin... Well I do not complain, because we missed the harvesting by a week, when we visited there in end of September .

Thank you for sharing the TPS collection method. It is a lot of work compared to saving some of the spuds every spring for planting. I was hoping to get some Peruvian Purple potato berries from our garden, where they grew "wild" from last year's tiny tubers. There were already tiny berries forming on the plants, but something has eaten them. Today I found a hornworm munching potato leaves, so they may be the culprits.

[c8h10n4o2]

I grew three 14 ft rows an all blue (look purple to me) variety from pinetree seeds and they prolifically produced berries. I must have picked up more than a gallon 1/2 inch to inch size berries off the ground. The three rows of Yukon gold next to them produced maybe ten 1-2 inch berries. And none of my 2 rows of fingerling potatoes set any seeds. Nor did the one row of white potatoes which really were eyes off a bag of potatoes from the store. I had a lot of potatoes but i noticed the blue potatoes were generally smaller in size. I did the fermentation method because i found the snot like substance dries hard as a rock to paper plates and screens. I am also looking forward to trying a flat of potatoes from seed this spring.

[Raymondo]

Can I go back a few steps here please?

At what stage do you pick the berry?

Are they always green when picked?

From a post earlier in this thread, it appears you leave the berries after picking to ripen further. Is that the case? If so, why?

[Tom Wagner]

Thanks Raymondo for posting,

I try to be an educator on the potato forum and sometimes I feel that even with 2,000 members here that my interests are too far flung for most. So, again, thank you.

I have found that if one posts, they have some interest; if they don't, they either don't have an interest or worse. (Pun intended.)

Can I go back a few steps here please?

At what stage do you pick the berry?

No sooner than 5 weeks after blooming, preferably 6 to 8 weeks after bloom. You may want to string tag some blooms with the date so you know when to pick.

Are they always green when picked?

Mostly, yes. However if they persist on the vine, or the vine dies; the berry turns pale green to a yellow-green to near yellow in appearance. However some berries are mottled with purple or other colored patterns.

Picking when green assures you that you get the berry. Otherwise it will rot, get stepped on, buried, picked up by kids, dry up like a raisin,etc. Picking green and placing in a warm or cool area, no difference is essential. Why? See next question.

From a post earlier in this thread, it appears you leave the berries after picking to ripen further. Is that the case? If so, why?

Several reasons. One; the seed is still maturing within the berries, it hardens the seed coat, and is primed for the future. Fresh berries have seed that might be damaged in the extraction process. The aroma of the berries is one of delight to me and not to others, however if you smell a delightful aroma, that means the berries are finally ripened and seed extraction could commence. I find that a bag of fruits with a few fermenting rather hastens the maturation of the remaining berries. I try to pick when the berries are quite firm and allowing maturation to occur under benign conditions. The environment outdoors sometimes brings early destruction to the berry; sunlight, mammals, insects, tractor tires, feet, rain, buried in dirt and debris, all to the point of telling me----pick em while they're young and pretty. (BTW, it doesn't matter if you are old and gray)

Since I pick over several months because of huge numbers of berries to pick, I prioritize the hybrids I've made first and work on down with whatever agenda in on my mind.

Most often I must know that the berry is still attached to the mother plant to assuage my guilt that I did not make a mistake on maternity. Many times I have each vine in a row being of a distinct clonal identity. I have to follow the berry cluster to the stem down to the hill. I might as well be in the field looking for something I've lost. I am on my hands and knees. If you aren't will to do this comedic position, don't do this kind of work!!

Tom Wagner

[carolyn137]

I try to be an educator on the potato forum and sometimes I feel that even with 2,000 members here that my interests are too far flung for most. So, again, thank you.

I have found that if one posts, they have some interest; if they don't, they either don't have an interest or worse. (Pun intended.)

*****

Tom, the normal lurker to poster ratio is about 10/1 at all message sites, and then if you take those 200 folks, from the 2000 members here who do post, and divide them up as to which Forums/subjects they're most interested in, you've got even fewer folks who spend time in some forums and not others.

So never take lack of posting as lack of interest b'c there are some folks who just like to read and never post.

One time at one site we invited folks who never post to come out of the trees and post no matter what the subject was and it really was lots of fun to find out about each person b'c we asked them to tell us about themelves and why they never post.

To be honest, there will always be those who are too scared, too hesitant, don't want to be humiliated, etc., by posting. And I can understand that very well.

At GW a few years back I used to do a wrong varieties thread re tomatoes each year and I ended up having to inform those seed sources of which varieties were showing up as being wrong just b'c some folks were not comfortable informing those seed sources either by e-mail or phoning.

So again, lack of posts doesn't necessarily indicate lack of interest; actually most of the time far from it..

[Raymondo]

No, it's me who thanks you Tom.

So, you can pick berries when still firm and they'll continue to ripen. I've always been nervous about harvesting tomatoes for seed before they are good and ripe on the vine so I was concerned about harvesting the potato berry too ealy. I suppose that in fact you could harvest a tomato for seed any time after the chlorophyll drains from the fruit. At least, that's what looks like is happening as it begins its final maturation!

I'm keen to try growing potatoes from seed so when I found some potatoes growing at my new place which had berries I picked a handful. All but two went very dark and hard. Of the remaining two, one had seeds, the other didn't. I squeezed out the seeds and left them to dry. Then I found this thread. Of course, too late to undo what I'd done but I think I'll keep the seeds anyway and sow them next spring and see what happens.
I'll copy this thread and pare it down to the seed saving and sowing instructions. Many thanks.

Another question please.
Do you emasculate blossoms you want to use as mother? If so, do you do it at a stage equivalent to when you would do it for tomato blossom?

[Tom Wagner]

so, you can pick berries when still firm and they'll continue to ripen.

Yeah, this kinda smacks one in the face when you think of tomatoes that really don't like being picked too early and there doesn't seem to be many advantages for a tomato, evolutionary wise, to be picked early and set around just to mature the seed.

Potato berries are different, they seem to have some ontological evolution thing going on where the berries can persist long after the vine is gone. It is almost like they have a rin gene trait that delays the pulpy flesh from ripening too fast. i tend to breed for the rin gene (if that's the case) with potatoes because that gives me more time to extract the seed without the frenzy of (do it now or else) having to extract immediately as it is with tomatoes. Tomatoes will even have its' internal seeds sprout if you wait too long. I have never seen premature sprouting in potato berries. The sprouting inhibitors are way too high.

I've always been nervous about harvesting tomatoes for seed before they are good and ripe on the vine so I was concerned about harvesting the potato berry too ealy.

I know the nervousness. When growing potatoes for berry production, you have to learn all over again what the **** the dynamics are. If you didn't cuss a few times working with potatoes then you are not normal. You do have to throw out the tomato habit. If you do happen to pick potato berries too early, it is advised that you squish a berry open to check seed hardness and lack of slip. If the seed slips out of its' seed coat, you know you have to wait as long as humanly possible for it to "catch" up. Don't squish any more berries until maturation occurs. When is that? When the berry is no longer grass green and hard as a rock.

I suppose that in fact you could harvest a tomato for seed any time after the chlorophyll drains from the fruit. At least, that's what looks like is happening as it begins its final maturation!

In a sense, that is what you are doing with a potato berry--waiting for the chlorophyll to denigrate. It sure would be nice if I could breed potatoes to have red fruit when ripe. In lue of that, I have been rather successful incorporating some strong aromatics into potato fruiting lines. Rarely do commercial lines of potatoes have the aromatics that I am working on with advanced selections.

I'm keen to try growing potatoes from seed so when I found some potatoes growing at my new place which had berries I picked a handful. All but two went very dark and hard.

Not good! A berry that gets dark and hard as a rock is difficult to extract seed from. One must hydrate the berry, which will take many hours, and then try to remove all of the sprout inhibitors that dried around the seed coat. If you don't use TSP, you won't get it off, and the seed will take forever or longer to germinate.

I squeezed out the seeds and left them to dry.

Not good again! In order to get uniform germination for the immediate upcoming season, one must get rid of all the inhibitors. Again TSP is the tool. Otherwise it will take over a year for full reasonable germination to occur. Disease from a number of pathogens are harbored too, since the gunk is still there!

Then I found this thread. Of course, too late to undo what I'd done but I think I'll keep the seeds anyway and sow them next spring and see what happens.

Expect erratic germination.

I'll copy this thread and pare it down to the seed saving and sowing instructions. Many thanks.

Copy? Why? I believe these threads go on for quite a while.

Another question please.
Do you emasculate blossoms you want to use as mother? If so, do you do it at a stage equivalent to when you would do it for tomato blossom?

Depends on the maternal plant that you are emasculating. Learn which potatoes have pollen, have pollen but are self incompatible, abort early, have stunted or otherwise inferior anthers, don't shed pollen, or for some unknown reason just hate themselves. In those cases, you can save a lot of time by not having to emasculate. But remember, the prefered time to pollinate is before anther maturity and pollen shed. The stigma part on top of the style of the pistal is mostly likely sticky enough to hold the pollen preparing for the pollen grains to activate when the time is right.

Some clones are used as females since I know they will hard pressed to ever give in to themselves and set fruit. Cascade and Provento are good examples. But even then I like to emasculate because deep down I feel that as the fruit commences to activate for seed set, that some of its own pollen may be grudgingly accepted and be among the progeny.

Tom Wagner