Dense Planting Illustrated - WARNING - Pic Heavy! Latest video 3/17 - transplanting

[zabby17]

Hey, Craig, just saw this---great pix, and thanks for the clear explanations!

I garden on a much smaller scale---about 80 plants for my own use---but I can vouch that the "mass seeding" before transplanting works fine. I start the seeds in nine-pack seedling cell packs, usually 4 to 6 seeds per cell to be sure I end up with at least two that germinate even if my seed is oldish.

But with a few varieties where I want lots of extra plants---some that are popular with my friends and family to give away to, or if I want a whole bunch of something for sauce, I found that I could put a dozen seeds into a nine-pack cell (prob. about 1/4 the size of your cells) and have no problem separating out the roots when I pot up.

I pot up to 3-inch pots or styrofoam cups using President's Choice Supersoil (giant bag is about $5) and almost exactly the method you describe, though I do wet it first. Maybe I'll try dry filling and then soaking---less messy!

(I really can't put them right outside as early as you in my zone---not unusual to have snow in April and hard frosts well into mid-May, but I do put them in a semi-insulated mudroom under shop lights, where temps may go down to just above freezing at night; I hang a shower curtain in front of the shelves at night to hold in a few degrees more heat during cold snaps, as it has occasionally gone below freezing in the mudroom. I agree that growing the seedlings in cool does help produce hardy plants! When I'm ready to plant I don't have any trouble hardening off---I try to put 'em out for a half-day then bring them in overnight before putting em right out, but sometimes don't have a chance and have never had a problem.)

Kurt, can you explain more about this? I don't picture what you mean:

>> I bought the barbecue (longest)and the tobacco pipe cleaning straws for a circular free moving wrap to stop them from intertwining to each other.

Thanks!

Zabby

[Crandrew]

AWESOME THREAD. Up till now I was planting a few seeds and then pulling the poor performers. I just planted my second round in yogurt cups with about 20 seeds in each and was able to easily seprate each one with no shock.

Thanks very much for the great write up, pictures and videos!!!!

Now what to do with 50 new youngsters

[kurt]

Kurt here,I buy the bamboo skewers a supermarket,about 12 inches long.Then at the tobbacco store the pipe cleaning straws that are cotton with a wire in them.I match one straw per skewer,tight wrap at each skewer end(but not too tight for upward slide),about 1 inch of straight straw portion then a semi almost closed circle 1/2 inch round to encompass the seedling stalk above the cover leaf.Then as plant grows I slide the straw up as needed opening and closing the circle to go over the leaves as needed.If you do the mass plantings this would be after seperation.I use the deep plug trays and do one seed per tray plug.Trays are 6 inch deep with circular 2inch top openings,graduating down to3/4 inch bottoms with drain hole.Each tray has 35 plugs.Do not beleive that ripping apart the young seedlings roots help at all.Plus I get 100%, 35 seedlings per tray transplant rate.Sure I do get deadheads and no shows but I have the option to reseed when I have to.Just do not have the patience and time for all the pulling apart.

[livinonfaith]

Kurt, are the skewers and pipe cleaners like little stakes for the seedlings?

Can't speak for everyone, but I've never staked a tomato plant until they are ready to go out into the garden. They should be sturdy enough until then. Granted, once in every twenty plants, I'll have one start growing sideways or something, but that's usually after they've gotten too tall. (And it doesn't really matter. Once you get them deep into the soil, they'll start back up again.)

If you have to stake seedlings, that either means they are way too weak and something is wrong, or you need to add more soil around the stem, or it's time to replant them in a new larger pot. (my guess)

When you do, if you plant them really deep, burying as much of the stem as you can without letting the leaves hit the soil, they should be strong enough to go until planting in the garden without a stake.

Have to say, Someone who has enough patience to make a bunch of little stakes for baby tomatoes saying you don't have enough patience to separate them sounds funny to me.

You sound incredibly patient to me!

[kurt]

Might sound weird but the reason is that I grow cherrys only.They tend to grow tall real fast for me.And the rains we get here in Fl.come down real fast and hard at times.I was tired of pulling them up off the soil and untangling them.Also I do one transplant only.From plug into container at 75% deep.Do not like determinates caus they do not fair well her in S.Fl.Plus I do not stake them until they get about 6 inches.Last season in October we had rain for 1 week straight everyday two to three times a day.In one day we had 6 inches of torrential downpour,If it I did not have the baby stakes the plants would of have been ruined.

[livinonfaith]

Okay, that makes much more sense!

I don't usually hear of seedlings being outside until they are larger, probably because most of us are starting them inside in colder climates. Yeah, I could see how all of those hard rains would beat down a small plant.

Have to say, I like doing that extra transplant because it seems to make the plants stronger. In fact, last year I skipped it when I planted a few in containers for the green house. I finally went back and replanted all of them deeper because they just didn't seem as sturdy or healthy to me.

Once I did that, they took off. (Granted, they also started getting a bit more light and got a shot of fertilizer at the same time, so that probably had a lot to do with the improved growth, as well!)

I still say you are very patient! You just don't recognize your own strengths!

[kurt]

Maybe when I retire(5 more years)I hope to move to our place in central Fl.My work keeps me here in S Fl and it is getting too crowded,tired of the rain,humidity,I have more critters and bugs it is to the point I can tell you the ones I do not have is easier than the ones we have.This way when we leave and retire I can spend more time,and using the knowledge gained from Tville community be able to grow that perfect tomato.Thanx for the vote of confidence.

[FreyaFL]

Amazing thread! I started reading this last night and just finished this morning (though, I'll admit, I did sleep in between.) And, I have yet to go back an view the videos, which I'll be doing shortly. However, I wanted to say that I am newly inspired to over-plant even more now just to see if this will work for me as well! So, rather than plant 9 tomato seeds in 3 repurposed applesauce containers, I'm going to plant at least that number in 1 (thinking, why not 15 or 20, though?) Since I'm planning on starting 4 new tomato varieties, two varieties of lettuce, and one of onions, this will use up only 7 containers rather than 21. Much easier to keep track of. (I have them set up as little wicking cups so I only check on the water level every few days.) Now, off to watch the videos!

Thank you!

Freya

[easttx_hippie]

I was surprised at how well....and how easy it was to do. Just use a loose mix to start the seeds so the seedlings can be easily separated. Sure makes it easy to start lots more in less space.

[baileyj]

I used this method last year for the first time....before I joined here. It saved me so much space, time and the frustration of seedlings that do not germinate/grow in the midst of a large flat...

Great, successful method !! I will follow this method every year...

[FreyaFL]

Because of my trying this method about a month ago, I now how 48 repotted tomato seedlings that will need to be planted out in another week. I wanted 6. It works! In experimenting, since he wrote about trying this with beets, I also heavily planted radish seeds in an applesauce container, at least 50. I really should post a picture of my radish planter (a homemade SIP) right now. Transplanting them to the desired distance was very easy and ALL of the little transplants survived and are growing beautifully. (Otoh, unless it's something like radishes where I can plant out and use all that I grow, I'm probably not going to mass plant everything. 42 extra tomato seedlings is a bit overwhelming! )

Thanks for posting this method!

FreyaFL

[baileyj]

I missed the reference to dense planting beets but will consider it this spring. I have not had good luck with moving beets so I am questioning how successful it will be to transplant them....but worth a try, I will reread here to see if I am missing some key points.

FreyalFL, When I dense planted by seeds last year I took a small 9 slot container....I put about 5-10 seeds of each type I wanted into each slot as suggested. Depending on how many transplants I am looking for from each type dicated how many seeds I planted. Usually for tomatoes I don't need more than 2-4 of each type....48 is quite alot....but for broccoli, lettuce etc...I am looking for 20 or more so I planted them more densely.
I found using this method I was able to better utilize light space in the early phases of seedling growth, but also not waste seeds by monitoring how many I planted from the start.
Judi

[habitat_gardener]

I transplanted my beets successfully a couple times this year. First I break up the clump and transplant individuals to 6-pack cells. When they are more or less big enough to survive on their own, I plant them in the garden.

I've done the same with self-seeding plants. I had to plant mache from seed only once, and it's come back on its own for several years since then. In the past week or so I've dug up some clumps of 50-100 small plants and planted them individually in a nice new prepared bed. I don't eat lettuce, but I love mache! So now I have one bed planted and enough in the rest of the 2nd clump to plant another whole bed!

[FreyaFL]

Baileyj/Judi: Yes, 48 was excessive. However, I was intrigued by the planting method and, really, for the tomatoes I "only" planted about 10 seeds per container. I just wasn't expecting so many to germinate! Next time, it'll be just a few. (I use the apple sauce containers because I have zillions of these. I put a little bit of cloth through a hole in the bottom and set it over something to hold water, mostly take out containers with the lids flipped over and holes cut in, and I have little, seed-starting wicking cups. It's been working really well for me.)

Do try the beets (if you like beets, that is. I don't, but figured radishes are close to beets and I like radishes.) There didn't appear to be any transplant shock at all. (Following habitat_gardener's advice, I would think, in order to have them ready to plant outside.)

habitat_gardener: I have never tried mache, but I just looked it up and will add this to my greens gardening experiments! If you haven't tried it, try the extra dwarf pak choy. It's MY favorite. It's super fast growing and is equally delicious fresh in salads or sauted/prepared like spinach. I'm going to try this dense sowing method with this (planting seeds today.) I usually use the scatter method in my planter, but there tends to be a lot of crowding and I hate thinning (guilt...guilt...LOL.) If this works, I can have each plant perfectly spaced for crunchy green goodness.

[baileyj]

Habitat,
I will definitely try your method for transplanting beets! We can never have enough beets at our house, so anything I can do to speed them along would be fabulous !
Thanks,
Judi