Advise for faster composting new lasagna bed

Stvrob · February 2, 2013

I have a bit of a dilemma. Four weeks ago I started a new lasagna bed for tomato expansion of my garden. It's 18'X 4' x 18" high. The base soil is fine white sand, excessively drained, and likely infested with hungry nematodes. Cardboard base then leaves longleaf pine needles old magnolia and hickory leaves some layers of newspaper plus A few bucketfuls of anerobic kitchen sink waste from where the kitchen sink drains into a nasty pit. Didn't have much green nitrogen waste so I used a few pounds of 10-10-10. It's been very warm weather but it's hardly started cooking, just warm in some places, cold in others. I would really like to set tomatoes out in three weeks. I was thinking of piling on a huge amount of Spanish moss on top mainly to insulate it so it can start cooking. You all think this would work? The weather has suddenly turned cooler with nights in the 30's and highs in the low 60's.
Anyone have any ideas on getting this area ready to plant by Feb 20? I don't have access to any manure, hoping I could just add nitrogen from a bag.

Redbaron · February 2, 2013

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stvrob

I have a bit of a dilemma. Four weeks ago I started a new lasagna bed for tomato expansion of my garden. It's 18'X 4' x 18" high. The base soil is fine white sand, excessively drained, and likely infested with hungry nematodes. Cardboard base then leaves longleaf pine needles old magnolia and hickory leaves some layers of newspaper plus A few bucketfuls of anerobic kitchen sink waste from where the kitchen sink drains into a nasty pit. Didn't have much green nitrogen waste so I used a few pounds of 10-10-10. It's been very warm weather but it's hardly started cooking, just warm in some places, cold in others. I would really like to set tomatoes out in three weeks. I was thinking of piling on a huge amount of Spanish moss on top mainly to insulate it so it can start cooking. You all think this would work? The weather has suddenly turned cooler with nights in the 30's and highs in the low 60's.
Anyone have any ideas on getting this area ready to plant by Feb 20? I don't have access to any manure, hoping I could just add nitrogen from a bag.

Nitrogen from a bag will actually slow biological activity. It is the breaking down of proteins in plants (the mulch) that produces nitrogen as a waste product, then that nitrogen is reused to build new proteins in other organisms. Adding chemical nitrogen is completely different biologically. It only affects the production side, and actually slows down the decomposition side.

Adding biology can help. Either worms or bacteria products. There are several products available commercially. But in the end, if it can't be planted in time there is always the back-up plan of simply tilling it in give it 4 or 5 days and then a simple paper covered in mulch over that after planting.

But before you panic. Why do you feel it hasn't decomposed enough? It doesn't have to be completely decomposed.

Stvrob · February 2, 2013

But before you panic. Why do you feel it hasn't decomposed enough? It doesn't have to be completely decomposed.

Good point, I guess it can continue to decompose while the tomatoes grow this spring. The only thing is, those daggum pine needles seem to be pretty acidic till they break down.

I do have about 100 gallons left of good fluffy peat/compost I scraped off the bottom of the lake last year. I could use a few gallons around each tomato transplant and give the roots a few more weeks until they grow into the pine needle compost.

There is a lot of dried earthworm casts in with the bed already. Hopefully the 10-10-10 I used didnt kill off any good bacteria in there.

RayR · February 2, 2013

Agreed, 10-10-10 or any other chemical salt fertilizer will harm the population of bacteria, fungi and other life that are needed for the composting process.
Piling stuff on top to insulate it may actually reduce the oxygen supply needed for aerobic decomposition.

b54red · February 4, 2013

I never compost pine needles. They just take too long to break down. When everything else has composted the pine needles are still there. I guess that is why they make such a good mulch for things like azaleas. They are acidic and they don't have to be replaced very often.

You might try getting a bag of cottonseed meal and a bag of Alfalfa pellets and work them in with a tiller. If you put enough in they should heat up the bed as they breakdown which they do rather quickly. They both have a high nitrogen content which is released as they break down really helping with the feeding of the plants and they will attract earthworms better than anything I have found.

If you have an old fashioned feed store or a store that sells horse feed you should be able to get the 50 lb bags for around 15 dollars each. I regularly put nearly 50 lbs in a 4 by 45 foot bed every spring and about half that amount in the fall. I usually put out about 2 parts cottonseed meal to each 1 part Alfalfa. I also add a bit to my compost pile when it isn't composting fast enough and it does speed it up. It needs to be mixed in because a thick layer of it will sour when wet instead of breaking down fast. Cottonseed meal is rather acidic so you may want to add a little lime.

Crandrew · February 4, 2013

I feel like pine needles will take at lest a few seasons to break down.

Redbaron · February 4, 2013

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crandrew

I feel like pine needles will take at lest a few seasons to break down.

Different soils have different levels of bioactivity. This causes the rate at which mulches decay vary significantly even in areas only a few miles away.

dice · February 4, 2013

Nettles would help. They have a reputation for speeding up compost
activation. If you have any around growing, maybe spread a layer
in between the other stuff and the moss. (Wear long sleeves, long pants,
and gloves, so as not to get stung.) The pine needles will not
decay quickly, but while they are in there, not decayed, they will
provide some additional air space.

http://www.frenchgardening.com/tech....d=309088884143
http://www.mountainroseherbs.com/learn/nettle_leaf.php

One theory (guess) was that it is the carbonic acid in nettles that
helps compost activation. (Formic acid is what is responsible
for the sting when brushing up against nettles.)

Products like this tend to be mostly dried chicken manure:
http://www.scotts.com/smg/goprod/whi...lus/prod70406/

Tracydr · February 4, 2013

Chicken poop makes a great activator.

Stvrob · February 5, 2013

I guess I got carried away with the pine needles. I think from now on I will stick to using them for mulch only. What do you all think about acorns for compost?

ScottinAtlanta · February 5, 2013

I am pulling dozens of oak trees out of my raised beds - the squirrels plant their acorns there. How would you mulch up the acorns to ensure they don't sprout?

Stvrob · February 5, 2013

I don't know? Maybe a way to force them to sprout first, then raise the temp? Kinda like malting barley ?

bwaynef · February 5, 2013

Seems like if you're able to get your compost hot enough, the acorns would die off. I'm not sure that lasagna beds foster that level of heat though, so you might want to save that for your compost PILE.

CapnChkn · February 10, 2013

bwaynef said it, if you want it to heat up you have to put it in a pile. A bed has too much surface area.

Even though I'm a little late for the discussion, I have found my sheet mulching doesn't work very well unless the OM is wetted and composted somewhat first. After it goes beyond the hot stage, I feel ok with putting in the beds.

February 2, 2013	#1
Stvrob Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jan 2013 Location: Jacksonville, FL Posts: 1,413	Advise for faster composting new lasagna bed I have a bit of a dilemma. Four weeks ago I started a new lasagna bed for tomato expansion of my garden. It's 18'X 4' x 18" high. The base soil is fine white sand, excessively drained, and likely infested with hungry nematodes. Cardboard base then leaves longleaf pine needles old magnolia and hickory leaves some layers of newspaper plus A few bucketfuls of anerobic kitchen sink waste from where the kitchen sink drains into a nasty pit. Didn't have much green nitrogen waste so I used a few pounds of 10-10-10. It's been very warm weather but it's hardly started cooking, just warm in some places, cold in others. I would really like to set tomatoes out in three weeks. I was thinking of piling on a huge amount of Spanish moss on top mainly to insulate it so it can start cooking. You all think this would work? The weather has suddenly turned cooler with nights in the 30's and highs in the low 60's. Anyone have any ideas on getting this area ready to plant by Feb 20? I don't have access to any manure, hoping I could just add nitrogen from a bag. Last edited by Stvrob; February 2, 2013 at 02:55 AM. Reason: Spelling

February 2, 2013	#3
Stvrob Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jan 2013 Location: Jacksonville, FL Posts: 1,413	*But before you panic. Why do you feel it hasn't decomposed enough? It doesn't have to be completely decomposed.* Good point, I guess it can continue to decompose while the tomatoes grow this spring. The only thing is, those daggum pine needles seem to be pretty acidic till they break down. I do have about 100 gallons left of good fluffy peat/compost I scraped off the bottom of the lake last year. I could use a few gallons around each tomato transplant and give the roots a few more weeks until they grow into the pine needle compost. There is a lot of dried earthworm casts in with the bed already. Hopefully the 10-10-10 I used didnt kill off any good bacteria in there. Last edited by Stvrob; February 2, 2013 at 10:04 AM.

February 4, 2013	#8
dice Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: PNW Posts: 4,743	Nettles would help. They have a reputation for speeding up compost activation. If you have any around growing, maybe spread a layer in between the other stuff and the moss. (Wear long sleeves, long pants, and gloves, so as not to get stung.) The pine needles will not decay quickly, but while they are in there, not decayed, they will provide some additional air space. http://www.frenchgardening.com/tech....d=309088884143 http://www.mountainroseherbs.com/learn/nettle_leaf.php One theory (guess) was that it is the carbonic acid in nettles that helps compost activation. (Formic acid is what is responsible for the sting when brushing up against nettles.) Products like this tend to be mostly dried chicken manure: http://www.scotts.com/smg/goprod/whi...lus/prod70406/ __________________ -- alias

February 5, 2013	#10
Stvrob Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jan 2013 Location: Jacksonville, FL Posts: 1,413	I guess I got carried away with the pine needles. I think from now on I will stick to using them for mulch only. What do you all think about acorns for compost? Last edited by Stvrob; February 5, 2013 at 01:45 AM. Reason: Spelling

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February 2, 2013	#4
RayR Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: Cheektowaga, NY Posts: 2,464	Agreed, 10-10-10 or any other chemical salt fertilizer will harm the population of bacteria, fungi and other life that are needed for the composting process. Piling stuff on top to insulate it may actually reduce the oxygen supply needed for aerobic decomposition.

February 4, 2013	#5
b54red Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Alabama Posts: 7,068	I never compost pine needles. They just take too long to break down. When everything else has composted the pine needles are still there. I guess that is why they make such a good mulch for things like azaleas. They are acidic and they don't have to be replaced very often. You might try getting a bag of cottonseed meal and a bag of Alfalfa pellets and work them in with a tiller. If you put enough in they should heat up the bed as they breakdown which they do rather quickly. They both have a high nitrogen content which is released as they break down really helping with the feeding of the plants and they will attract earthworms better than anything I have found. If you have an old fashioned feed store or a store that sells horse feed you should be able to get the 50 lb bags for around 15 dollars each. I regularly put nearly 50 lbs in a 4 by 45 foot bed every spring and about half that amount in the fall. I usually put out about 2 parts cottonseed meal to each 1 part Alfalfa. I also add a bit to my compost pile when it isn't composting fast enough and it does speed it up. It needs to be mixed in because a thick layer of it will sour when wet instead of breaking down fast. Cottonseed meal is rather acidic so you may want to add a little lime.

February 4, 2013	#6
Crandrew Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Apr 2012 Location: asdf Posts: 1,202	I feel like pine needles will take at lest a few seasons to break down.

February 4, 2013	#9
Tracydr Tomatovillian™ Join Date: May 2011 Location: Laurinburg, North Carolina, zone 7 Posts: 3,207	Chicken poop makes a great activator.

February 5, 2013	#11
ScottinAtlanta Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: Atlanta, Georgia Posts: 2,593	I am pulling dozens of oak trees out of my raised beds - the squirrels plant their acorns there. How would you mulch up the acorns to ensure they don't sprout?

February 5, 2013	#13
bwaynef Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Sep 2012 Location: Clemson SC Posts: 143	Seems like if you're able to get your compost hot enough, the acorns would die off. I'm not sure that lasagna beds foster that level of heat though, so you might want to save that for your compost PILE.

February 10, 2013	#14
CapnChkn Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Sep 2012 Location: Huntsville AL Posts: 91	bwaynef said it, if you want it to heat up you have to put it in a pile. A bed has too much surface area. Even though I'm a little late for the discussion, I have found my sheet mulching doesn't work very well unless the OM is wetted and composted somewhat first. After it goes beyond the hot stage, I feel ok with putting in the beds.