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Old October 17, 2017   #16
Fred Hempel
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I know it has been published, but I think some research groups are skeptical. It is one of those results that will be sorted out fully in the next few years.

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Fred, unfortunately, TYLC virus gets into the seed germplasm(its now been proven and published), so TSP and bleach won't help there.
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Old October 17, 2017   #17
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I went out and checked my all my remaining plants which is over 60 still in the garden and found that even the ones I wasn't sure were infected are. There are no varieties that are not showing the effects of the disease but some are showing far less extreme signs of it than others. There are probably around 25 or more different varieties out in the garden now. Since they all have it I am just going to leave the ones with tomatoes and see if I can get some more decent eating fruits off them before the real cold weather gets here. I have noticed that a lot of the fruit I have eaten lately does have that kind of uneven ripening and sometimes that kinda solid type center that Marsha mentioned but they still taste way better than the ones in the store.

The whiteflies are definitely thinning out and the only thing it could be is the extreme windy and cooler weather since I gave up spraying them a week ago because it was just so hopeless. It is so windy that the carrots, mustard and turnips I planted late yesterday afternoon and watered thoroughly just before dark were in need of water again by eight this morning. If this wind keeps blowing like this I will have to water several times a day to get a good stand. I have learned that keeping the soil surface moist makes a big difference in germination of small seeds.

The wind is so bad that all the leaf footed bugs were clustered this morning in bunches to stay out of the wind so I blasted three different clusters all at different stages of development from young juveniles to full grown adults. Wow that was an easy way to kill a lot of pests and use just a few sprays from a hand spray bottle with Permethrin and Dawn. I will keep checking the different plants for more leaf footed bugs and stink bugs the next few days because the fewer here when winter comes the fewer I'll have to deal with next year. I hope.

Bill
Bill, I think we in South Florida were the first area hit in the US by TYLCV. So we have been dealing with it for a long time. One of the things we noticed is that a few years ago there were far less calls to the Master Gardener help desk about what to do about whiteflies. We have also seen less infestation degree. It's theorized that things/predators have finally decided that it's good to eat and have moved into the area and are controlling the populations much better. So there's a lot of time but there is hope in the future for your crops. And now yellow sticky traps control mine quite easily, as long as I put them out about every 5 feet. Part of my advantage I guess is that I have to garden when it's cooler and they're not quite as active.
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Old October 17, 2017   #18
seaeagle
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Default TYLCV

Clemson University says;

TYLCV is not seed-borne, but is transmitted by whiteflies.

http://www.clemson.edu/extension/hgi.../hgic2217.html
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Old October 17, 2017   #19
oakley
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Originally Posted by seaeagle View Post
Clemson University says;

TYLCV is not seed-borne, but is transmitted by whiteflies.

http://www.clemson.edu/extension/hgi.../hgic2217.html
But the copyright at the bottom is 2015. Up-dates 2-16
mentioned but what was up-dated and when were the remaining
studies conducted. (?)

Just pointing out confusions when coming across studies not
dated clearly.
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Old October 17, 2017   #20
Fred Hempel
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Yes. But new reports have not been fully confirmed, and accepted (based on my reading between the lines in newer publications).

I don't think viral movement into seeds (particularly in plants with no systemic symptoms) is yet generally accepted for TYLC and tomatoes.

Based on our experience seed borne transmission in resistant plants where infection is arrested after innoculation (in field grown plants), we do not see seed borne transmission evidence. This does not rule out low level infection, but it doesn't seem to fit with the disease (rapid and dramatic plant effects after infection)


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But the copyright at the bottom is 2015. Up-dates 2-16
mentioned but what was up-dated and when were the remaining
studies conducted. (?)

Just pointing out confusions when coming across studies not
dated clearly.
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Old October 17, 2017   #21
Fred Hempel
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On another note, there is a very scary viroid that is currently a big worry in the commercial seed industry, because of clear seed-borne transmission.

Potato Spindle Tuber Viroid

Potato Spindle Tuber Viroid has caused me to cease all trading activity with regard to tomato seed (until I figure out more about assays available, and the presence or absence of the viroid in my seed stocks).
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Old October 17, 2017   #22
seaeagle
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oakley View Post
But the copyright at the bottom is 2015. Up-dates 2-16
mentioned but what was up-dated and when were the remaining
studies conducted. (?)

Just pointing out confusions when coming across studies not
dated clearly.
Tomato Diseases & Disorders

Pesticides updated by Joey Williamson, HGIC Horticulture Extension Agent, 10/16. Revised by Joey Williamson, HGIC Horticulture Extension Agent, Clemson University, 02/16. Images added by Joey Williamson, HGIC Horticulture Extension Agent, Clemson University, 07/15. Originally Prepared by Marjan Kluepfel, HGIC Information Specialist, James H. Blake and Anthony P. Keinath, Extension Plant Pathologists, Clemson University. New 09/00. Images added by Zachary Boone Snipes, Horticulture Extension Agent, Clemson University, 7/15.

HGIC 2217


I assume by this that updates are provided as needed, one as recently as 10-16


I also assume there is a report confirming that TYLC is seed-borne and I have not seen it yet.

Last edited by seaeagle; October 17, 2017 at 04:10 PM.
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Old October 17, 2017   #23
ginger2778
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Here's a scholarly from Nature saying previously TYLCV was not considered seed borne, but plants produced from seeds of a known infected plant had the virus, IN THE ABSENCE OF WHITEFLIES. https://www.nature.com/articles/srep...-transmission9
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Old October 17, 2017   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ginger2778 View Post
Here's a scholarly from Nature saying previously TYLCV was not considered seed borne, but plants produced from seeds of a known infected plant had the virus, IN THE ABSENCE OF WHITEFLIES. https://www.nature.com/articles/srep...-transmission9
That's what I was thinking. Testing fruit from diseased plants.
Who would save seed from a clearly infected plant?
(unless testing)
I have saved no seed from the farm plants, zip-zero. Not sure yet
why myself and neighbors, friends, far and wide, had such a
bad tomato season, even some full grown tasty fruit but until
someone can say for sure what happened...
...only saved seed from my other location without troubles. Deck
micros/dwarfs and driveway containers.
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Old October 17, 2017   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ginger2778 View Post
Here's a scholarly from Nature saying previously TYLCV was not considered seed borne, but plants produced from seeds of a known infected plant had the virus, IN THE ABSENCE OF WHITEFLIES. https://www.nature.com/articles/srep...-transmission9
Yes I saw that one. Was looking for another to confirm but cannot find one. Good enough for me. I read a study by the University of Georgia that said white flies do not overwinter in Georgia very well and therefore would not be a problem until the fall or really late summer. So I assume white flies will never be a major concern anywhere north of Georgia or South Carolina. Plus the fact that it was a really mild winter last year is probably why I saw them for the first time.

All these seed-borne diseases makes all the more important to know where your seeds come from
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Old October 17, 2017   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by seaeagle View Post
Yes I saw that one. Was looking for another to confirm but cannot find one. Good enough for me. I read a study by the University of Georgia that said white flies do not overwinter in Georgia very well and therefore would not be a problem until the fall or really late summer. So I assume white flies will never be a major concern anywhere north of Georgia or South Carolina. Plus the fact that it was a really mild winter last year is probably why I saw them for the first time.

All these seed-borne diseases makes all the more important to know where your seeds come from
I have definitely seen whiteflies in the spring here but not in the kind of numbers I experienced this late summer and fall. Some years we don't even see any whiteflies and I do think the warm winter of last year was a major factor in the exploding population we had this year. I didn't even notice them the last few years but we had some really cold weather down in the teens up until the past two winters so that may have been why there were so few for a couple of years and then the massive buildup this year.

Bill
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Old October 17, 2017   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oakley View Post
That's what I was thinking. Testing fruit from diseased plants.
Who would save seed from a clearly infected plant?
(unless testing)
One thing the article said was it takes up to 3 weeks for symptoms to show after infection. So saving fruit and seeds from infected plants might have been unknown at the time.
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Old October 17, 2017   #28
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Loving all of the conversation on this topic. I was not previously aware of this virus, and back in the spring when I posted for help on what was probably the same condition, we all accepted that it was probably just herbicide damage. Glad that there now is more recognition of this and that there seems to be a lot of work going into understanding it.

So, a few follow-up questions:

1. Is there anything that can be done as a preventative? Will spraying with Neem help to control the whiteflies? I've used Neem before, but usually only after noticing a whitefly problem.

2. I have used the yellow sticky traps for quite a while now, but I don't know how effective they've been. I always still have whitefly problems. Even on the plants inside my pool screen enclosure. Peppers seem affected the worst, to the point where I stopped growing them.

3. I believe my citrus trees have contributed to my whitefly problems. I used to have some plants next to one, and they were horribly infected with whiteflies. Since all three of my trees are suffering from citrus greening, I am having them removed tomorrow, actually.

4. If whiteflies thrive in warmer weather, maybe a later fall plant-out date would be helpful. Here in central Florida, I'm wondering if we're close to getting to the point of having one longer over-winter growing season like south Florida. In my four winters here, we've never once had a real freeze, and only gotten close 2-3 times. Last winter, I could have easily over-wintered if I had prepared for it (i.e., not given up on the mature plants to focus on new seedlings in January). In fact, I'm wondering if I should start new seeds right now and plant them out around December 1 rather than waiting until March 1.

I will continue to monitor the PBTD plant that has not shown any signs yet. Fingers crossed.
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Old October 18, 2017   #29
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Great thread. I have never seen whitefly problems in Atlanta, but given Bill's problems, I am sure it won't be long before they reach us here. What a terrible thing.
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Old October 18, 2017   #30
ginger2778
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elight View Post
Loving all of the conversation on this topic. I was not previously aware of this virus, and back in the spring when I posted for help on what was probably the same condition, we all accepted that it was probably just herbicide damage. Glad that there now is more recognition of this and that there seems to be a lot of work going into understanding it.

So, a few follow-up questions:

1. Is there anything that can be done as a preventative? Will spraying with Neem help to control the whiteflies? I've used Neem before, but usually only after noticing a whitefly problem.

2. I have used the yellow sticky traps for quite a while now, but I don't know how effective they've been. I always still have whitefly problems. Even on the plants inside my pool screen enclosure. Peppers seem affected the worst, to the point where I stopped growing them.

3. I believe my citrus trees have contributed to my whitefly problems. I used to have some plants next to one, and they were horribly infected with whiteflies. Since all three of my trees are suffering from citrus greening, I am having them removed tomorrow, actually.

4. If whiteflies thrive in warmer weather, maybe a later fall plant-out date would be helpful. Here in central Florida, I'm wondering if we're close to getting to the point of having one longer over-winter growing season like south Florida. In my four winters here, we've never once had a real freeze, and only gotten close 2-3 times. Last winter, I could have easily over-wintered if I had prepared for it (i.e., not given up on the mature plants to focus on new seedlings in January). In fact, I'm wondering if I should start new seeds right now and plant them out around December 1 rather than waiting until March 1.

I will continue to monitor the PBTD plant that has not shown any signs yet. Fingers crossed.
If you haven't had a frost in years then I think your late fall plant out is OK. We haven't had a frost here since 2010, and before that it was literally every year. It is getting warmer. We used to be zone 10a now 10b, and parts just got changed to zone 11, so I think you should go for it, definitely plant out in December. Why not try sowing seeds in early September next year, for a late October plant out, that's what I do, and just have one long season until about late April, but I start a few more seeds around December 1 to stretch the season until June. I think March in any part of peninsular Florida is really too hot already to get much accomplished.
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