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New to growing your own tomatoes? This is the forum to learn the successful techniques used by seasoned tomato growers. Questions are welcome, too.

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Old June 30, 2015   #31
joseph
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I downloaded a report from a weather station close to where the LA1777 tomato was collected. Then I graphed the high and low temperatures. Of note is that the air temperature stayed above freezing the entire year. Night-time low temperatures in the 40s are common the entire year. Daytime high temperatures were typically in the 70s year round. This tomato aught to grow really well in conditions that are typically found in my garden during early spring.

Then I added an estimate of radiant cooling to the chart for nights without cloud cover. I used 8 F since that's what I experience in my garden. Of note is that the longest gap between radiant freezes in the growing season is only about 60 days.


Last edited by joseph; July 1, 2015 at 02:27 AM.
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Old July 10, 2015   #32
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LA1777 (S. Habrochaites) germinated quickly for me in the greenhouse.

[LA1777 X Columbianium] hasn't germinated yet.

I made the last harvest of determinate tomatoes in the greenhouse yesterday. [Hillbilly X Jagodka] is indeterminate and is still fruiting.

The tomatoes in the field are producing fruit now.

I made the mistake of planting one patch of tomatoes into a patch of sunroot weeds. Ooops!!! I'll still get some fruit, but what a pain!!!
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Old July 26, 2015   #33
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Today I decided to start harvesting seeds from my tomatoes.

Descriptions are as follows:

Marble sized red cherry tomatoes from about an F3 cross between domestic tomatoes and a wild tomato (I suspect pimpinellifolium). The fruits dropped off the plant when they ripened. That could be a clever trait, because one of the worst things about picking cherry tomatoes is that it can be hard to detach the stem without damaging the fruit. I like to remove stems to avoid damaging the fruit during transport to market. Imaging a tomato that could be grown on a piece of plywood, and harvest consisted of shaking the plant... A bumblebee was visiting flowers on this plant while I was harvesting fruit.

A 1.5 ounce fruit from a similar cross. The plant is strongly dwarfed. I don't like the dwarf trait for growing in an open field. Doesn't work well for out-competing weeds. The slow growth also means that it doesn't compete well against flea beetles. They're looking quite bedraggled. Might try growing these indoors, in a pot, during the winter.

I have been growing an 'earliest tomato' for some years. It was also earliest this year, but I haven't been saving seeds from it because it's just putting out about 8 fruits and further growth is stalled.

Last year I saved seeds from a plant that I called 'Best of Jagodka' because the fruits were larger and earlier than typical for Jagodka. Today I saved fruits from two of her descendents, because they were likewise larger-fruited and earlier than the others. Fruit size averaged 2 - 4 ounces.

I saved seeds from a plant I call 'fern-like' because of it's wispy foliage. It is a determinate with fruits about 3 - 4 ounces. The green fruits on the same plant are closer to 6 ounces.

I saved seeds from two fruits of about an F4 plant descended from SunGold. They don't have anything going for them other than earliness and being orange. Fruit size is larger than SunGold. Taste is not up to SunGold standards, and the flowers were fully industrialized. A bumblebee was visiting flowers on this plant while I was harvesting fruit.

I saved seeds from another tomato that I have grown for years that is super early and produces about 1.5 ounce red fruits. It is potato leaved and indeterminate, so it produces until killed by frost. Even though I think that I want to move strongly towards growing determinate plants, I keep this indeterminate around because it grows so well for me.

I saved seeds from Chef's Choice Orange Hybrid Tomato. It was the best tasting tomato that I have harvested this year. It got planted in a sunroot weed patch, so it's really suffering. Nevertheless, it produced fruit. It is an indeterminate. If conditions permit later on I'd like to use this as a pollen donor perhaps to something from the [DX52-12 X Jagodka] family. In like manner, I'd like to use something descended from the Sun____ family as a pollen donor.

I've been buying SunGold and SunSugar at the farmer's market and saving seeds from them. I want to more fully explore the range of flower structures the offspring may contain.

I've collected perhaps 800 seeds from the F2 of [Hillbilly X Jagodka]. The children are likely to be yellow or red fruited, indeterminate or determinate, 2 - 12 ounce fruits. Flower type might be open or closed. So many possibilities for selection. Too bad I had so few seeds available this spring when I had to plant them. There are perhaps 20 plants that have survived so far and are growing strongly. Now it's just a race against the fall frosts.

Last edited by joseph; July 26, 2015 at 03:03 AM.
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Old July 27, 2015   #34
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Joseph wrote : Quote:
The fruits dropped off the plant when they ripened. That could be a clever trait
I’m not sure it would be without drawbacks. It could work with Orange Pear (I may be mistaken, I can’t use my main pc now) They only fall when they are very ripe and soft, easily crushed A bunch can be shaken over some kind of dish held just below I must say it’s quite time-wasting but you take it into account when you label prices…
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Old July 27, 2015   #35
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Joseph wrote :

Quote:
The fruits dropped off the plant when they ripened. That could be a clever trait
I’m not sure it would be without drawbacks. It could work with Orange Pear (I may be mistaken, I can’t use my main pc now) They only fall when they are very ripe and soft, easily crushed A bunch can be shaken over some kind of dish held just below I must say it’s quite time-wasting but you take it into account when you label prices…
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Old July 27, 2015   #36
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loulac: The tomatoes were falling off the vine when they were still hard. Some of them were still green. It's a trait to pay attention to. I ain't betting the farm on it just yet.

I really like picking tomatillos after they fall off the vine. It's the simplest way, in my current world view, to tell that they are ripe.
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Old July 28, 2015   #37
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Your technique is worth exploring. Plum growers in my area spread a film on the ground, shake the tree and gather the fruit quickly. Can I suggest cutting up a circle, adding a cut along a radius to be able to slip it under the plant right to its center, then shaking – gently - the plant, blowing away dead leaves if any. I’m far from home now and can’t test with tomatoes, but it works nicely with lettuce seeds.
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Old July 31, 2015   #38
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I did a frost tolerance test this spring. I planted lots of tomatoes into a flat and exposed it to frost/cold, and then planted them out 6 weeks earlier than normal, and culled anything that got too damaged by the frosts or cold. Some of the plants had ripe fruit on them yesterday. Two of the plants are descended from SunGold. We suspect that one of the ancestors of SunGold is Solanum habrochaites which is known to have more frost/cold tolerance than domesticated tomatoes. So I might be able to achieve four goals with this line:

-Orange Fruits
-Frost Tolerance
-Open Flowers
-Early Productivity

Two things missing from my wish list would be larger fruits, and determinate growth habit.

So I definitely aught to try to cross pollinate something descended from SunGold with something descended from the [DX52-12 X Jagodka] family. Jagodka is moderately frost sensitive. DX52-12 is tolerant of light frosts. DX52-12 is the closest thing my valley has to a local heirloom. Fruit size is about 10 ounces. Jagodka is my main early season production tomato.

Here's what the most precocious plants in the [DX52-12 X Jagodka] family looked like yesterday:







Last edited by joseph; July 31, 2015 at 02:31 AM.
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Old August 1, 2015   #39
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I’m quite impressed by Joseph’s research. His latest post reminds me of Andrei, an active member of Tomatoville. I copied and pasted some of his posts about cold resisting tomatoes, unfortunately without the address of the page. Here are some excerpts. Some of these varieties may be described and sold by Tatiana. We all wish we could help Joseph but I’m aware he knows lots of things that I don’t and that I may be of no help t all !

Andrei wrote :
“Actually there are a plenty Russian amateur and commercial tomato varieties to survive at -7C (19,4F) and even lower at -14C (7F). The most popular (in Russia) extreme cold tolerant amateur tomato varieties were bred by Saraev P. from Russian town Orenburg: Stepnyak, О-33, I-3 or Iyunskiy-3, Gruntovyi, Limonchik, Sibiryak, Orenburzhets, Kemerovets, Spiridonovskiy etc. I've tried Spiridonovskiy, Kemerovets and I-3. They were really cold tolerant at least at about 0C.

Most hardy varieties
Spiridonovskaya. Undersized, standard, precocious. The fruits are small, up to 60 g, red, suitable for canning. From germination to early maturation under favorable conditions, is 80-90 days. Resistance to low temperatures was confirmed by the Institute of Biology, Karelian Branch of the RAS. When tested in young seedlings survived four frozen to -14 °C.

Orenburzhets. Undersized, standard. Red fruits, weighing 80-100 g, good taste, universal purpose. Endured three consecutive freeze: -5 °, -7 °, -10 °C.

Kemerovets. Undersized. Pink fruits weighing up to 100 g, high commodity and taste, universal purpose. Withstood freezing -7 °, -10 °, -13 °.

0-33. Srednerosloe. The fruits are large, up to 200 g, flat-round, red. Beginning maturity - Mid-July, the yield per bush - more than 6 kg. When tested survived two freezing and one -9 ° -7 °.

Stepniak 50. Srednerosloe. Red fruits, weighing 30-50 g, rounded, smooth, multi-purpose. Is resistant to temperature variations. Went through five freezing to -10 °C.

I-3. Average height, very early, in good years the fruits ripen in late June. High-yielding. Fruits are flat-round, red, weighing 100-200 g when tested went through five frost from -6 ° to -11 C

Siberian. Srednerosloe. Fruits are flat-round, red, large, fleshy, high taste. Variety is very crop. When tested withstood seven frozen to -10 °C.

Lemon. Tall, late-maturing. The fruit shape and color to its name, weighing 70-80 g, hang huge brushes, very harvest. The fruits are fleshy, well-kept, suitable for canning. Through three freeze to -10 °C.

M-16. Tall, late-maturing. Fruits are very beautiful shape, good presentation. Weighing 200-300 g, fleshy, good taste, well kept. Tests: one frost -3 °, two - on -10 °C.

However, speaking of Sarajevo resistance varieties to frost, you should know that this is only possible at low humidity (dry air) and windless weather. For a long time scientists advised growers evening and night watering as effective against frost but this is false. Wet surface gives four times more heat than dry.”
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Old August 1, 2015   #40
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I'm so excited to read joseph's posts. I live in Alliance NE and perhaps have maybe more days, but I got those early and late freezes that mess up tomatoes and severely slow them down. I need some of Joseph's landrace seeds to try.

It was 50 degrees this week at night with a high of 94.

Must get in contact with Joseph for seeds to grow in my redneck greenhouse next year. Which is a clothesline with plastic so it's like a redneck high tunnel. Plants in 5 gallon buckets.

So far Bush Early Girl is thriving in this spur of the moment greenhouse build.

Joseph I need seeds.
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Old August 1, 2015   #41
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What is DX52-12?

Interested in a 10 ouncer from that environment also.

Joseph thinks like I do...except he is actually doing it. Grew up raising landrace pigs in Florida and seen stellar results.

My neighbors have volunteer tomatoes that they have put in their seed mix since the early 60's. My neighbor is Greek and he has a tomato that grows to 10 foot and puts out 2 pounders easy. I made a youtube video of last year and I got seeds. Doubtful that would be useful to Joseph as it is Indeterminate but I have seen the vigor of landraces first hand in particular environments.

I'm liking Joseph's "mad scientist" approach.

Seeing that Joseph was selling plants made me think. Joseph we gotta talk I will pay shipping or whatever seeds and/or plants.
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Old August 2, 2015   #42
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My spring frosts that cause the most damage are generally radiant frosts... The cold of outer-space freezes the leaves on clear nights, even when the air temperature is as high as 40F. This can be reduced if the plant orients it's leaves towards the horizon at night.

I have grown I-3, Spiridonovskie Red, and Siberian.

I didn't like spiridonovkie because it is a dwarf and can't compete well considering my weeding habits. It sailed through the frosts. I scored it a medium on the ability to grow in cold weather.

I-3 was more susceptible to cold/frost. I scored it as low on the ability to grow in cold weather. It flowered super late, so was eliminated from further consideration.

Siberian did fine with the cold/frost. I scored it as low on the ability to grow in cold weather. It was another dwarf so eliminated from further consideration.

Jagodka, another Russian variety, was quite susceptible to frost, but grew very well in cold weather. It is currently my main early season production tomato.

Nevskiy Red, was more tolerant of frost/cold, and grew great in cold weather the first time I grew it, but didn't grow well the second year when it was a wetter/cooler season, so I dropped it.

I scored F1 Sungold as susceptible to frost/cold, and gave it a medium score for ability to grow in cold weather. It is usually among the first fruits to ripen in my garden. If I had been scoring the F3/F4 sungold plants this year for frost tolerance I would have given them a high score.
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Old August 2, 2015   #43
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DX52-12 tomato was developed for the Campbell's soup company by Alvin Hamson. Alvin taught me to prune apple trees when I was a teenager. DX52-12 was derived from Moscow tomatoes, which we think were derived from an off type found in a field of Marglobe. The Moscow type tomatoes were the most widely planted tomatoes in Utah when my daddy was a child. By the time I was a teenager, DX52-12 was being grown commercially in huge fields around here. They were grown sprawling. I remember picking them to make tomato juice for the family. It is still available from Mountain Valley Seed.

I typically ask a silver dime (1964 or earlier) and a postage stamp for tomato seeds.

Or I'd swap for inter-species hybrids, or wild tomato species, or...

Last edited by joseph; August 2, 2015 at 02:41 PM.
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Old August 2, 2015   #44
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"..However, speaking of Sarajevo resistance varieties to frost, you should know that this is only possible at low humidity (dry air) and windless weather. For a long time scientists advised growers evening and night watering as effective against frost but this is false. Wet surface gives four times more heat than dry.”

I saw this for myself this year... tomatoes in dry soil sailed through the frosty nights with no damage. When I watered them in the afternoon before a cold night, the leaves were a mess by morning.
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Old August 2, 2015   #45
CamuMahubah
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lel a 1964 dime or earlier! K i'll be on the lookout in my pocket change..

I've made some hybrids by accident...

gave a girl a cherry this year that turned out to be a giant potato leaf pink..

either I mixed my seeds up or the bumblebees got crazy last year!
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