First Time Cover Cropper

peebee · January 26, 2015

I sowed 4 large beds with cover crops for the very first time last fall and they are very tall right now. I'm in zone 10 and while it is technically not Spring yet, it sure is looking like it now. My questions:

When should I cut them down? Do I have to then chop the stalks up in little pieces? What about the roots?
Do I have to turn the stuff under after a week or two of drying? This seems to be a daunting task; the stalks are really quite large at this point and there is no way I can cut all that into bits to make decomposition better.
Can I save seeds from some plants for next year or will this take too long?

I've read online various ways of dealing with cover crops. Some say to leave it in place after cutting, to use as mulch and to just plant under it.

I got a bare root fruit tree earlier than I expected and want to plant it in one of the beds soon. Please advise, I'm new at this! Thanks!

KarenO · January 26, 2015

what cover crop did you grow? Typically the plants are tilled into the soil as young plants. You sure wouldn't want it to go to seed in your beds whatever it is.
Karen

Redbaron · January 26, 2015

I personally just mow down the cover crop in place and lay my paper and mulch right over it. Then plant seedlings through the whole thing.

creister · January 26, 2015

I do the same as Scott except I use shredded native tree trimming mulch

Lorri D · January 26, 2015

When should I cut them down?

I mow and then till 6 weeks prior to planting out.

Do I have to then chop the stalks up in little pieces? What about the roots?

Greatly depends on what you planted on what you are going to plant. I would say if they are big plants with stalks thicker and tougher than what you want to plant, you should chop them. Roots, same thing, how big are they and tough? red clover I would say it isn't necessary, but on a grass/pea/vetch you should.

Do I have to turn the stuff under after a week or two of drying?

I don't let it dry out necessarily. I mow one day and till the next or in a few days. I usually have to work with the weather and get as much done on a good day around 6 weeks prior to planting.

This seems to be a daunting task; the stalks are really quite large at this point and there is no way I can cut all that into bits to make decomposition better.

Mow, and if you've really got a prob, go to your local home depot and rent either a brush trimmer or a huge tiller....should be about 80 bucks for half a day and if you have a jungle, I think it is well worth the 80 bucks.

Can I save seeds from some plants for next year or will this take too long?

Cover crops are generally cheep, I wouldn't waste the time or energy if you are already pressured by the first job you have to do.

I got a bare root fruit tree earlier than I expected and want to plant it in one of the beds soon. Please advise, I'm new at this! Thanks!

Hope that helps, I've done a variety of cover crops over the last few years and that is what I do. Lorri D

peebee · January 27, 2015

Thanks everyone; I got my seeds from Peaceful Valley Farm & Garden Supply here in CA and they have good stuff every season for us here in this part of the US. The mix I got has peas, chickpeas, vetch, oats, among other things and was recommended for a fall/winter planting in my zone. There is a helpful video also and in it, the person says to wait till Spring, or when around half starts flowering, then cut it down, let dry for a week, then turn it in. But she doesn't show how she turns it in.
I can't mow as my beds are raised and not symmetrical and they would be too small for my mower. I have chopped them down and tried to cut most of the tall oats. The stalks are thick. I think I will take everyone's advice and do 2 different methods as a test--#1, lay them down, cover w/ mulch, and plant into it, and #2, I will chop as much as I can, even the roots, and turn in.
The reason I thought of saving seeds was, yes they are very cheap but the shipping was about 3 times the cost of the seeds so I ended up paying 4 X the price. One bed, which I won't use right away, was planted earliest and they are all flowering now w/ some seed heads forming. So I thought, why not? If I left just one plant of each variety to seed, I would have more than enough for 2-3 years. I have only 8 beds, and plan to cover crop only half each year because I can plant year-round in my zone so I would still be able to use half my garden. But I think I will abandon this seed saving idea for now, it sounds like too much time & effort.
I hope I see real results with this cover cropping business this year!

Worth1 · January 27, 2015

How about a line trimmer or grass shears to cut the cover crop?
To get the full benefit of the legumes putting nitrogen in the soil like clover is to cut it before it puts out seed heads.
No need to till it in just put mulch on top.
At least that is what I read from the Texas A&M website.

Worth

peebee · January 28, 2015

Yes I'm using grass shears and a loper both to cut the stuff down. I've done 2 of the 4 beds so far. Just the cutting, that is. This is the first time I've done solarizing, cover cropping, and now I'm going to try my hand at grafting.
Hoping to see improved harvests this year, so excited!

peebee · May 18, 2015

Just wanted to update the results of my cover cropping: the tomatoes in all 4 beds are huge and lush compared to the ones in the beds that did not get this treatment. I am a believer

. This fall, I will cover crop the other beds.
Question: should I be doing this every year then? Or perhaps alternate years?

bjbebs · May 18, 2015

I don't think you can over due cover crops. If you have fallow ground put down some seed. I till in my cover crops so i'm working with a prepared seed bed.
It might be different seeding into a mat of decayed plant material.
The NRCS offers much information for large scale cover cropping http://www.nrcs.usda.gov/

Redbaron · May 18, 2015

Quote:

Originally Posted by peebee

Just wanted to update the results of my cover cropping: the tomatoes in all 4 beds are huge and lush compared to the ones in the beds that did not get this treatment. I am a believer

. This fall, I will cover crop the other beds.
Question: should I be doing this every year then? Or perhaps alternate years?

One of the most important principles of soil health is to have a diversity of living plants (and their roots) in the soil at all times, or as much as possible. So yes, every year. It keeps the soil food web vigorous.

A healthy soil means healthy crops.

PS Congratz on your results.

zeroma · June 12, 2015

Redbaron,

Amen to your statement!!! Where is a good reference of what cover crop to plant after tomatoes, or after peas and beans, all the different families of plants? Or do you plant a mix of cover crops that grow the best in your area? I thought Lupines would be beautiful as eye candy and as a legume, add the N to the soil. But the Co-ordinate at our Master Gardener Program told me Lupines don't grow well here. I'm going to guess it is because we have a high pH due to all the limestone. But don't really know for sure.

Redbaron · June 12, 2015

Quote:

Originally Posted by zeroma

Redbaron,

Amen to your statement!!! Where is a good reference of what cover crop to plant after tomatoes, or after peas and beans, all the different families of plants? Or do you plant a mix of cover crops that grow the best in your area? I thought Lupines would be beautiful as eye candy and as a legume, add the N to the soil. But the Co-ordinate at our Master Gardener Program told me Lupines don't grow well here. I'm going to guess it is because we have a high pH due to all the limestone. But don't really know for sure.

They claim that at minimum you need a grass and a forb in your cover crop mix. And since tomatoes is a warm weather crop, that means in the off season a cool season grass mixed with a cool season forb.....minimum.

Now having said that, it also is apparent (from people more experienced at covers than me) that the more species in your mix, the better. So my personal opinion would be a cool season grass paired with two cool season forbs, one forb a brassica and one a legume. But I haven't tested this myself yet.

As for which? I guess you need to check with your local growers what works best in your soils.

Then I guess you have to just try a few combinations to see what works for you personally.

zeroma · June 12, 2015

Thanks so much Redbaron. Experiments are fun along with some sound advise never hurts.

Redbaron · June 12, 2015

Quote:

Originally Posted by zeroma

Thanks so much Redbaron. Experiments are fun along with some sound advise never hurts.

There is a tomatovillian active on this forum with much more experience in cover crops. And actually they are from Ohio! Barbee. She's the one that grew the State record watermelon!

January 26, 2015	#3
Redbaron Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Sep 2012 Location: Oklahoma Posts: 4,488	I personally just mow down the cover crop in place and lay my paper and mulch right over it. Then plant seedlings through the whole thing. __________________ Scott AKA The Redbaron "Permaculture is a philosophy of working with, rather than against nature; of protracted & thoughtful observation rather than protracted & thoughtless labour; & of looking at plants & animals in all their functions, rather than treating any area as a single-product system." Bill Mollison co-founder of permaculture

January 26, 2015	#5
Lorri D Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: NorthWest Posts: 267	When should I cut them down? I mow and then till 6 weeks prior to planting out. Do I have to then chop the stalks up in little pieces? What about the roots? Greatly depends on what you planted on what you are going to plant. I would say if they are big plants with stalks thicker and tougher than what you want to plant, you should chop them. Roots, same thing, how big are they and tough? red clover I would say it isn't necessary, but on a grass/pea/vetch you should. Do I have to turn the stuff under after a week or two of drying? I don't let it dry out necessarily. I mow one day and till the next or in a few days. I usually have to work with the weather and get as much done on a good day around 6 weeks prior to planting. This seems to be a daunting task; the stalks are really quite large at this point and there is no way I can cut all that into bits to make decomposition better. Mow, and if you've really got a prob, go to your local home depot and rent either a brush trimmer or a huge tiller....should be about 80 bucks for half a day and if you have a jungle, I think it is well worth the 80 bucks. Can I save seeds from some plants for next year or will this take too long? Cover crops are generally cheep, I wouldn't waste the time or energy if you are already pressured by the first job you have to do. I got a bare root fruit tree earlier than I expected and want to plant it in one of the beds soon. Please advise, I'm new at this! Thanks! Hope that helps, I've done a variety of cover crops over the last few years and that is what I do. Lorri D Last edited by Lorri D; January 26, 2015 at 10:28 PM.

January 26, 2015	#1
peebee Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Southern CA Posts: 1,714	First Time Cover Cropper I sowed 4 large beds with cover crops for the very first time last fall and they are very tall right now. I'm in zone 10 and while it is technically not Spring yet, it sure is looking like it now. My questions: When should I cut them down? Do I have to then chop the stalks up in little pieces? What about the roots? Do I have to turn the stuff under after a week or two of drying? This seems to be a daunting task; the stalks are really quite large at this point and there is no way I can cut all that into bits to make decomposition better. Can I save seeds from some plants for next year or will this take too long? I've read online various ways of dealing with cover crops. Some say to leave it in place after cutting, to use as mulch and to just plant under it. I got a bare root fruit tree earlier than I expected and want to plant it in one of the beds soon. Please advise, I'm new at this! Thanks!

January 26, 2015	#2
KarenO Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Oct 2012 Location: Vancouver Island Posts: 5,922	what cover crop did you grow? Typically the plants are tilled into the soil as young plants. You sure wouldn't want it to go to seed in your beds whatever it is. Karen

January 26, 2015	#4
creister Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Abilene, TX zone 7 Posts: 1,478	I do the same as Scott except I use shredded native tree trimming mulch

January 27, 2015	#6
peebee Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Southern CA Posts: 1,714	Thanks everyone; I got my seeds from Peaceful Valley Farm & Garden Supply here in CA and they have good stuff every season for us here in this part of the US. The mix I got has peas, chickpeas, vetch, oats, among other things and was recommended for a fall/winter planting in my zone. There is a helpful video also and in it, the person says to wait till Spring, or when around half starts flowering, then cut it down, let dry for a week, then turn it in. But she doesn't show how she turns it in. I can't mow as my beds are raised and not symmetrical and they would be too small for my mower. I have chopped them down and tried to cut most of the tall oats. The stalks are thick. I think I will take everyone's advice and do 2 different methods as a test--#1, lay them down, cover w/ mulch, and plant into it, and #2, I will chop as much as I can, even the roots, and turn in. The reason I thought of saving seeds was, yes they are very cheap but the shipping was about 3 times the cost of the seeds so I ended up paying 4 X the price. One bed, which I won't use right away, was planted earliest and they are all flowering now w/ some seed heads forming. So I thought, why not? If I left just one plant of each variety to seed, I would have more than enough for 2-3 years. I have only 8 beds, and plan to cover crop only half each year because I can plant year-round in my zone so I would still be able to use half my garden. But I think I will abandon this seed saving idea for now, it sounds like too much time & effort. I hope I see real results with this cover cropping business this year!

January 27, 2015	#7
Worth1 Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Den of Drunken Fools Posts: 38,539	How about a line trimmer or grass shears to cut the cover crop? To get the full benefit of the legumes putting nitrogen in the soil like clover is to cut it before it puts out seed heads. No need to till it in just put mulch on top. At least that is what I read from the Texas A&M website. Worth

January 28, 2015	#8
peebee Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Southern CA Posts: 1,714	Yes I'm using grass shears and a loper both to cut the stuff down. I've done 2 of the 4 beds so far. Just the cutting, that is. This is the first time I've done solarizing, cover cropping, and now I'm going to try my hand at grafting. Hoping to see improved harvests this year, so excited!

May 18, 2015	#9
peebee Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Southern CA Posts: 1,714	Just wanted to update the results of my cover cropping: the tomatoes in all 4 beds are huge and lush compared to the ones in the beds that did not get this treatment. I am a believer . This fall, I will cover crop the other beds. Question: should I be doing this every year then? Or perhaps alternate years?

May 18, 2015	#10
bjbebs Tomatovillian™ Join Date: May 2014 Location: illinois Posts: 281	I don't think you can over due cover crops. If you have fallow ground put down some seed. I till in my cover crops so i'm working with a prepared seed bed. It might be different seeding into a mat of decayed plant material. The NRCS offers much information for large scale cover cropping http://www.nrcs.usda.gov/

June 12, 2015	#12
zeroma Tomatovillian™ Join Date: May 2012 Location: SW Ohio Posts: 637	Redbaron, Amen to your statement!!! Where is a good reference of what cover crop to plant after tomatoes, or after peas and beans, all the different families of plants? Or do you plant a mix of cover crops that grow the best in your area? I thought Lupines would be beautiful as eye candy and as a legume, add the N to the soil. But the Co-ordinate at our Master Gardener Program told me Lupines don't grow well here. I'm going to guess it is because we have a high pH due to all the limestone. But don't really know for sure.