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Old 4 Weeks Ago   #1
chlorophile
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Default Need assistance with ID

Hi all,

Three of the four heirlooms I am growing this year are declining due to a disease I can't definitively identify. I am beginning to suspect bacterial canker at this point given the wilting pattern, but there are also foliar lesions that accompany the wilt and are confusing me a bit.

So, here's the pattern - dark spots without yellow halo show up on the foliage; they seem to look similar to images of bacterial spot I've seen. The leaves then wilt without any yellowing at all and almost overnight are crispy and brown, and the lesions seem to have a concentric pattern similar to fungal disease. I have a bit of early blight and septoria in the mix, but I know their effects and this is something much more aggressive.

Other details- no lesions on the fruit, at least nothing more than an odd spot here or there. Lesions on stem as well (could be septoria), and none of the lesions on the leaves or stem aggregate-they have defined margins. There is no yellowing associated with the wilt, so I believe that rules out fusarium and verticillium wilt-correct me if I'm wrong there. Also, there were no signs of illness until well after fruit set.

It has almost totally defoliated my tie dye pink and is having a solid go at my brad's atomic grape (the fruits of which don't look like the images of seen, but that's another topic) . It also took my Paul Robeson out entirely (boo), so I'm pretty bummed.

The hybrids in the same row are not succumbing to the disease, so I'm thinking this is a wilt of sorts for which they have resistance. It hasn't gotten to my black cherry yet, but I'm keeping an eye out for it.

Thoughts?? Thanks everyone.

P. S. The stem pictured below is not yellow - I accidentally had the flash on and it washed out the green.

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Old 4 Weeks Ago   #2
chlorophile
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Old 4 Weeks Ago   #3
chlorophile
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Old 4 Weeks Ago   #4
chlorophile
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Old 4 Weeks Ago   #5
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Old 4 Weeks Ago   #6
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Yes you do have a problem. I find it interesting that the fruits have no damage. It would help diagnose the problem if they did. I think that you have one of three things going on. It could be Bacterial Spot, Bacterial Speck or Tomato Spotted Wilt Virus. All of these diseases are quite similar in their symptoms. It might be best for you to take a sample into your county extension office for an accurate diagnosis.

Tomato Spotted Wilt Virus - http://vegetablemdonline.ppath.corne...pottedWilt.htm

Bacterial Speck - https://pddc.wisc.edu/wp-content/blo...peck_of_Tomato.

Bacterial Spot - http://hort.uwex.edu/articles/bacterial-spot-of-tomato/

Sadly I think that it is the Tomato Spotted Wilt Virus that you have. I do hope that I am wrong.
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Old 4 Weeks Ago   #7
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Can you show the symptoms on anther plant, preferably a non-black? I find Berkley to be hard to diagnose, because no matter what disease it has, it never goes through yellowing stage but directly to black. There are a few other varieties in same category, but not many, it's an atypical type of leaf it seems.
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Old 4 Weeks Ago   #8
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we have bacterial speck this year. I don't think that is what you have. the speck is from leaf tip to sepal. spots on every surface. worst year for tomatoes for me ever. the inside tomatoes look great but everything outside is terrible. All of NE Ohio has it this year.
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Old 4 Weeks Ago   #9
b54red
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It looks like gray mold to me and quite advanced. What you see is only part of the problem if it is gray mold it has moved much further up the plants than what is visible to the naked eye. Seeing the small lesions on the stems could mean it has gotten well into the plant and may be so far along it can't be stopped. I would try the diluted bleach spray but you will lose quite a bit of foliage. The next day after spraying with the diluted bleach you should remove all the shriveling leaves and stems and spray with a copper fungicide to help reduce the spread of GM.

Black tomato varieties are highly susceptible to gray mold and need to be kept sprayed with a copper fungicide. They also need the diseased leaves removed whenever they show up along with some opening up of the plant with pruning to lessen the chance of gray mold by allowing more sunlight and air to circulate in the plant. Most of my black varieties have had some gray mold to one degree or another and I have kept them sprayed with copper but had to use the bleach spray twice. I have kept them pruned and all lower foliage removed. By doing these things I have kept the gray mold well under control so far this year. You could also have some type of speck or spot problems along with the gray mold and the treatment will help with that also.

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Old 4 Weeks Ago   #10
RayR
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I have the exact same symptoms on my plants as chlorophile, and I'm all too familiar with it over the years. Chalk it all up Septoria which becomes very aggressive when there is rain and humidity. There is no fuzzy mold growth as with Gray Mold, the leaves will just become dry crispy brown. The lesions on the leaves and stems are typical of Septoria. Septoria does not effect the fruit. No variety is immune to Septoria, some will just appear to show better resistance for a time and others will go downhill real fast.
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Old 4 Weeks Ago   #11
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I agree you may have some Septoria or other spot or speck disease going on at the same time; but I still think you have gray mold. There are not always patches of fuzzy spots with gray mold. First you will see some darkening usually on the interior of the plant followed by wilting and shriveling of the leaves that will spread from the lower portions of the plant and keep rising. If left untreated it will eventually affect the fruit.
If Ray is right and it is just Septoria the treatment mentioned in the above post will also help with Septoria. I however believe it is mainly a problem with gray mold and the fact that it is mainly on black varieties is very telling to me.

With either problem the longer you wait to treat those plants the worse they will become. In the future you should spray all black varieties with a copper fungicide weekly to help prevent severe outbreaks of gray mold. I know that is not always possible especially in rainy weather when the only option is the diluted bleach spray which will help a great deal.

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Old 4 Weeks Ago   #12
chlorophile
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Originally Posted by b54red View Post
I agree you may have some Septoria or other spot or speck disease going on at the same time; but I still think you have gray mold. There are not always patches of fuzzy spots with gray mold. First you will see some darkening usually on the interior of the plant followed by wilting and shriveling of the leaves that will spread from the lower portions of the plant and keep rising. If left untreated it will eventually affect the fruit.
If Ray is right and it is just Septoria the treatment mentioned in the above post will also help with Septoria. I however believe it is mainly a problem with gray mold and the fact that it is mainly on black varieties is very telling to me.

With either problem the longer you wait to treat those plants the worse they will become. In the future you should spray all black varieties with a copper fungicide weekly to help prevent severe outbreaks of gray mold. I know that is not always possible especially in rainy weather when the only option is the diluted bleach spray which will help a great deal.

Bill
Thank you all so much for taking the time to reply to me. I learned a few things and it definitely helped me to figure out what it is. I think it is indeed gray mold and septoria throwing a 1/2 punch at these plants. I've dealt with EB and septoria every season but have never seen it move so quickly before. Then again, I have not been keeping up with my preventative sprays this year due to some family tragedies and personal health issues. That coupled with the wet nights and humidity have created the perfect opportunity for fungal diseases to take over.

I did not know that 'black' varieties are more susceptible to gray mold, but it makes sense. Last year I planted a black cherry in a container due to running out of space in the garden, and it was plugging along really well until it was struck with a nasty case of gray mold. It had the obvious symptoms - darkened petioles with girdling and dark/fuzzy leaflets. I was puzzled given my relatively decent upkeep, but I did read in a few places that black cherry seems prone to gray mold.

I assume Paul Robeson is also a 'black' variety (?) As I mentioned previously, the other plants that took a beating were Berkley tie dye, brad's atomic grape, and now I'm seeing it hitting the black cherry. My sungold, better boy, and early girl are all fighting the good fight against septoria and EB, but as has been my experience with hybrids, they seem to be doing much better with it than the heirlooms. They are definitely not happy, but I'm not flat out watching the plants turn to a dried mess in a short time period.

It seems that all these issues arise once the plant is loaded with fruit every year, which is pretty much late July here on the CT shore. Are there any studies regarding the (if any) physiological changes in tomatoes that create the window of opportunity for the fungal diseases to start hitting hard? Is it just the natural cycle of these organisms and unrelated to the plant's cycle? I assume the plants become 'stressed' when trying to ripen dozens of fruits and continuing to put out new foliage, but I'm curious as to the biochemical nature of these changes. It's also possible that it's only been my own experience that the fungal diseases don't show up until this point and hit others much earlier, but in my 4 years of gardening it's the same period, almost like clockwork. N=4 isn't particularly notable but definitely a trending result. I would think the fungal spores are present from day one and the onset of illness is related to either than plant's stress response or particular weather pattern, but I'm really just speculating here. I'm a biologist and need to know these things. Haha.

Again, thanks for all of your input. Bill-special thanks to you for your bleach spray thread-I used it last year to save a precious charatenais melon vine

I hope you're all having a great season.

Dave

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Old 4 Weeks Ago   #13
chlorophile
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Disregard the font color/size change in there-not sure what happened. Haha.

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Old 3 Weeks Ago   #14
b54red
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Originally Posted by chlorophile View Post
Thank you all so much for taking the time to reply to me. I learned a few things and it definitely helped me to figure out what it is. I think it is indeed gray mold and septoria throwing a 1/2 punch at these plants. I've dealt with EB and septoria every season but have never seen it move so quickly before. Then again, I have not been keeping up with my preventative sprays this year due to some family tragedies and personal health issues. That coupled with the wet nights and humidity have created the perfect opportunity for fungal diseases to take over.

I did not know that 'black' varieties are more susceptible to gray mold, but it makes sense. Last year I planted a black cherry in a container due to running out of space in the garden, and it was plugging along really well until it was struck with a nasty case of gray mold. It had the obvious symptoms - darkened petioles with girdling and dark/fuzzy leaflets. I was puzzled given my relatively decent upkeep, but I did read in a few places that black cherry seems prone to gray mold.

I assume Paul Robeson is also a 'black' variety (?) As I mentioned previously, the other plants that took a beating were Berkley tie dye, brad's atomic grape, and now I'm seeing it hitting the black cherry. My sungold, better boy, and early girl are all fighting the good fight against septoria and EB, but as has been my experience with hybrids, they seem to be doing much better with it than the heirlooms. They are definitely not happy, but I'm not flat out watching the plants turn to a dried mess in a short time period.

It seems that all these issues arise once the plant is loaded with fruit every year, which is pretty much late July here on the CT shore. Are there any studies regarding the (if any) physiological changes in tomatoes that create the window of opportunity for the fungal diseases to start hitting hard? Is it just the natural cycle of these organisms and unrelated to the plant's cycle? I assume the plants become 'stressed' when trying to ripen dozens of fruits and continuing to put out new foliage, but I'm curious as to the biochemical nature of these changes. It's also possible that it's only been my own experience that the fungal diseases don't show up until this point and hit others much earlier, but in my 4 years of gardening it's the same period, almost like clockwork. N=4 isn't particularly notable but definitely a trending result. I would think the fungal spores are present from day one and the onset of illness is related to either than plant's stress response or particular weather pattern, but I'm really just speculating here. I'm a biologist and need to know these things. Haha.

Again, thanks for all of your input. Bill-special thanks to you for your bleach spray thread-I used it last year to save a precious charatenais melon vine

I hope you're all having a great season.

Dave

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I agree that most diseases make the most dramatic appearance when the plants are fruiting and I would guess that the plants are stressed by that and the added heat. Throw in some rain and humid weather and you are ripe for diseases. That is one of the reasons that I like using a liquid fertilizer through a hose end applicator. It allows me to keep feeding the plants during that time when they are most stressed and I think it helps strengthen the plants and it also aids in them setting more fruit further up the plants.

I have some plants that I set out the 6th of August that have already had their first bleach spray due to gray mold showing up on a few of the lower leaves on the black varieties and they certainly don't have any fruit set yet. I find it is far better to react quickly to the first signs of gray mold and not wait. If you hit it as soon as it shows up with the bleach spray and keep the plants sprayed with a copper spray every week it can be controlled unless you get some really extended rain. Even then gray mold can be controlled if you go out between rains and spray the bleach spray every few days. Doing that as opposed to waiting for the rains to stop will greatly reduce the damage that you will have when they finally do stop. That also helps with Septoria which can spread like wildfire during those rainy wet periods.

Good luck.

Bill
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