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Old June 30, 2017   #16
decherdt
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If you get a 30x pocket microscope you can see them and their perfectly spherical eggs. Sometimes other scary stuff too. I'm not sure how they feel when I use mine to check plants at the garden center

Ewi8lbXAxuXUAhUH5oMKHQcIDfEQ_AUIBigB&biw=1829&bih= 998

https://www.google.com/search?q=spid...=1498825075868
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Old June 30, 2017   #17
Scooty
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Originally Posted by b54red View Post
I have found spider mites just covering some weeds and so now I keep them killed down regularly with a bit of Roundup; but that doesn't help with what my neighbors have growing. I don't think it is possible to remove all the surrounding sources of spider mites and they are so small I just know instinctively that they must blow in with the wind or rain. The best option is to remain vigilant and react quickly and decisively when you first see signs of them appearing. Most people around here just give up on their tomatoes around the first of July so there are plenty of host plants for them to breed uncontrollably on. Usually they aren't a big problem until after July and I am one of the few people I know around here that continues to grow through the heat of the summer so I just have to keep fighting them when they show up and they usually do.

Bill
If you're treating with spinosad, it should be a systemic treatment so it should "last" beyond just the initial knockdown effect.
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Old June 30, 2017   #18
clkeiper
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Originally Posted by Scooty View Post
If you're treating with spinosad, it should be a systemic treatment so it should "last" beyond just the initial knockdown effect.
Spinosad is not a systemic. it will not enter the plant and have residual effects on insects. it is applied to the plant and sunlight breaks it down rather quickly so a spreader sticker should be used when applying it.

As per a spinosad fact sheet..... "Spinosad is a natural substance made by a soil bacterium that can be toxic to insects. It is a mixture of two chemicals called spinosyn A and spinosyn D. It is used to control a wide variety of pests. These include thrips, leafminers, spider mites, mosquitoes, ants, fruit flies and others". no where does it say it is a systemic or can be used as a systemic.
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Old June 30, 2017   #19
HoustonHeat
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Bill I want to try your spray but what is DE?

I am new to this and have tried Neem oil and Organicide 3 in 1 Sesame Oil trying to avoid a pesticide and frankly it helps some but they come back...
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Old June 30, 2017   #20
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I keep all weeds out of my beds... however behind my boxes are some grass that gets taller since I cannot cut it. Does rain or water help get rid of them? Also has anyone used Dill, Cilantro, etc that I read is a good companion plant deterrent?
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Old July 1, 2017   #21
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Bill I want to try your spray but what is DE?

I am new to this and have tried Neem oil and Organicide 3 in 1 Sesame Oil trying to avoid a pesticide and frankly it helps some but they come back...
DE is diatomaceous earth. You also need to use the food grade quality DE. I also use the 10% Permethrin at stronger than the label recommends for both spider mites and stink bugs because they are so hard to kill. Make sure you get the livestock and vegetable grade Permethrin and not the one used for termites. I would not mind using the natural pyretrin but the cost is ridiculous now that so many people have gone organic. When I was young it was very cheap but now it is like buying gold.

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Old July 2, 2017   #22
Scooty
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Originally Posted by clkeiper View Post
Spinosad is not a systemic. it will not enter the plant and have residual effects on insects. it is applied to the plant and sunlight breaks it down rather quickly so a spreader sticker should be used when applying it.

As per a spinosad fact sheet..... "Spinosad is a natural substance made by a soil bacterium that can be toxic to insects. It is a mixture of two chemicals called spinosyn A and spinosyn D. It is used to control a wide variety of pests. These include thrips, leafminers, spider mites, mosquitoes, ants, fruit flies and others". no where does it say it is a systemic or can be used as a systemic.
That was my initial understanding until I stumbled on the following. Try it hydroponically. It works.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16180075

"Surprisingly, when spinosad was applied to the roots of tomato plants in rock wool, excellent control of spider mites was obtained. Apparently, spinosad has systemic properties and quantities as low as 1 mg/plant could protect tomato plants from mite infestation."
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Old July 2, 2017   #23
RayR
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Originally Posted by decherdt View Post
If you get a 30x pocket microscope you can see them and their perfectly spherical eggs. Sometimes other scary stuff too. I'm not sure how they feel when I use mine to check plants at the garden center

Ewi8lbXAxuXUAhUH5oMKHQcIDfEQ_AUIBigB&biw=1829&bih= 998

https://www.google.com/search?q=spid...=1498825075868
I agree, a 30X magnifier is great for that.
Another very useful tool for looking for mites is a good digital camera or smart phone camera that can take some clear closeup shots. I did this today after I noticed some funny looking yellowing on some lower leaves of some tomato plants. Yep, there are mites there.
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Old July 2, 2017   #24
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This year I planted marigolds around my tomatoes in containers. Then I read that they attract spider mites. I almost yanked them up but I decided to leave them. Maybe the spider mites will leave the tomatoes alone? I had to thin the marigolds out a few days ago and saw no signs of mites.
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Old July 2, 2017   #25
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Originally Posted by RayR View Post
I agree, a 30X magnifier is great for that.
Another very useful tool for looking for mites is a good digital camera or smart phone camera that can take some clear closeup shots. I did this today after I noticed some funny looking yellowing on some lower leaves of some tomato plants. Yep, there are mites there.
Ray I am pretty sure those are aphids. Typical green tear drop shaped body, no spots, only 6 legs.
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Old July 2, 2017   #26
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Originally Posted by Scooty View Post
That was my initial understanding until I stumbled on the following. Try it hydroponically. It works.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16180075

"Surprisingly, when spinosad was applied to the roots of tomato plants in rock wool, excellent control of spider mites was obtained. Apparently, spinosad has systemic properties and quantities as low as 1 mg/plant could protect tomato plants from mite infestation."
so, even if this works hydroponically it is still only working in rockwool growing media. "Different substrates with varying percentage of clay and organic matter were tested in comparison with rockwool and showed that sufficient control was restricted to the rockwool substrate." I would venture to guess most of us here aren't growing hydroponically?
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Old July 2, 2017   #27
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Ray I am pretty sure those are aphids. Typical green tear drop shaped body, no spots, only 6 legs.
Good eye Marsha! These aphid nymphs are so tiny that they can't be seen with the naked eye, but the camera easily exposes them. I know a lot of people would be fooled by the spotting and yellowing of the leaves into thinking it was a fungal problem like Septoria or bacterial spot or speck.

In the case of spider mites, my camera may not be able to pick up details of the mites body but probably show the black spots on the two spotted mites. We'll see, it's not hot and dry enough yet up here for spider mites to thrive but I'll be checking often because you never know.
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Old July 4, 2017   #28
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so, even if this works hydroponically it is still only working in rockwool growing media. "Different substrates with varying percentage of clay and organic matter were tested in comparison with rockwool and showed that sufficient control was restricted to the rockwool substrate." I would venture to guess most of us here aren't growing hydroponically?
I think we're getting hung up on the definition of systemic. By systemic I mean kill by ingestion. Spinosad does both. Contact and ingestion.

Dow Chemical was the one who first introduced spinosad products to the US back in 1997. They use to hand out a pamphlet and it's on their current Conserve product "Spinosad works by contact and by ingestion. Contact occurs either by direct application to the insect or by movement of the insect onto a treated surface. Ingestion occurs as insects feed on treated substrate (such as foliage). While control via contact is highly effective, control via ingestion is 5 - 10 times more effective."

"However it is comparatively non-toxic to mammals and beneficial insects. Only insects that actually ingest the plant material that was treated, such as leaf matter, are affected. Spinosad is partly taken up by leaf tissue and this enhances its effectiveness over time. Dry surface residues do little harm to non-plant feeding insects." (Saunders and Brett 1997).

As far as nutrient uptake. It's not exactly new practice. http://web.pppmb.cals.cornell.edu/re...management.pdf It's currently used as seed treatment for onions. I don't see why one can't also do the same for 'maters, especially if you're in an area where you're constantly battling thrips, spider mites, hornworms, etc.. etc..
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Old July 6, 2017   #29
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I have been using this and it has worked great on my heirloom plants. However, something is still munching on my basil. I've tried EVERYTHING! I have my earthboxes on a balcony in the city. I put beer out as a last resort to see if it was slugs even though I've never seen one here my entire life. No luck. The potting mix is new and I used a new earthbox for the basil. The only thing I see hanging around are flys and things that look like little flying gnats. I have mulch covers on but that doesn't seem to deter what ever this invisible monster is.....any suggestions would greatly be appreciated. Btw this is the first year that I've experienced this thank you
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Old July 8, 2017   #30
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I just learned the other day that Spinosad is highly toxic to bees.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spinosad

Being systemic, I wonder how much ends up in the pollen? Not sure if that has been studied yet. Most sources say it's less toxic to bees when dried.
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