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General discussion regarding the techniques and methods used to successfully grow tomato plants in containers.

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Old June 26, 2013   #1
efaunt86
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Default Will this soil work?

I am completely new to gardening, much less container gardening. I dumped a bunch of garden soil in pots and, lo and behold, it didn't drain and set like concrete. So I tried mixing my own for some different pots I went with a 5:3:3 ratio of peat/top soil/manure compost. It seems to drain pretty well. I have tomatoes in 10 gallon pots with no gravel or anything on the bottom. When my other veggies, the ones in the concrete dirt, sprout big enough I'm going to remove them and mix in peat maybe vermiculite because I'd be really disappointed if I put in this much work only to have the plants die because my lack of knowledge of container needs.

Last edited by efaunt86; June 27, 2013 at 12:59 AM.
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Old June 27, 2013   #2
Ed of Somis
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E...I have studied this subject of container mixes for awhile...and am confident about these facts: Never use native soil in a pot/container. Never put rocks, gravel, or glass on the bottom to help drainage. You raise the level of mucky bottom even higher in the pot. (see my other posts about this). Fine particles in a soil mix (ie. clay or native dirt, fine dust or wood, etc) can never be improved by adding things like perlite, vermiculite, fir bark, granite, etc. The comparison is best answered by this question: how many bb's does it take to improve the drainability of a cup of pudding? You get the idea. A fast draining potting mix is very important. At minimum...a commercial bag of good potting mix will do. Cactus mixes in general drain better than most others. goodluck
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Old June 27, 2013   #3
tlintx
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I use MG, or a mix of bark, peat, and perlite. Still working on the right bark, haven't found the perfect size for vegetables.

It's not really that complicated, though. I think we all know somebody who can grow the most finicky of houseplants in scoops of backyard dirt over pottery shards! The trick is finding a good medium between watering needs, plant needs, and budgetary needs.

If the containers aren't SIP, I'd mix a third what you've got with a third pine bark/soil conditioner and a third perlite. Vermiculite is so pricey!

If cost is no issue, get some really good potting mix like ProMix. Or at least Miracle Grow potting mix (but not the moisture control or soil).


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Old June 27, 2013   #4
efaunt86
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Upon further reading, my post seems kind of jumbled as to what what I wanted to ask.

A) will the stuff I mixed grow my tomatoes since it seems to drain well enough

B) will adding peat moss or vermiculite help the rock hard soil that is in the other pots

And thanks tlint I haven't been able to find perlite yet, but will keep a more vigilant eye out for it. And would peat not achieve the same thing as bark?

Last edited by efaunt86; June 27, 2013 at 12:58 AM. Reason: lack of commas bother me
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Old June 27, 2013   #5
Tania
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perlite, vermiculite, and peat moss are all great additions to your potting mix - they make it light, fluffy, with high porosity and good drainage.

I prefer 3:2:1 mix of peat moss, perlite and vermiculite and then mix it with the same amount of comport or composted manure. This mixture works very well for tomatoes and anything else I grow in pots.

I am sure that addition of peat moss and vermiculite will help you, but I good compost is better than garden soil, as it contains lots of good nutrients to support the plant growth.
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Old June 27, 2013   #6
tlintx
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What a great recipe! Do you think it would drain too fast in an extremely warm, humid area? That's the issue I've been having with the bark-based mix.

Home Depot carries vermiculite ($20) and perlite ($17) in 2 cu ft bags - I think it's a summer thing, because I didn't see them when I looked a few weeks ago, just the small orchid bags. And I had to go to Lowe's for baled peat.

I think I'll pick up some a small bag of each of those ingredients Tania recommended and give it a try!
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Old June 27, 2013   #7
Tania
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tlintx,

The mix will not only drain well but it will also retain moisture well due to vermiculite and perlite. Peat moss also holds on to water very well.

In our PNW area, we usually have a very long dry spell sometime in July/early August with 0 rainfall. The mix works very well, as long as you do not let it dry completely between waterings.
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Old June 27, 2013   #8
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Here's some information on potting mixes that I came across. It includes several recipes.
Attached Files
File Type: txt Potting Mixes for Certified Organic Production.txt (98.5 KB, 18 views)
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Old June 27, 2013   #9
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My local Home Depot doesn't stock the perlite and vermiculite so I turned to a local garden shop. I found 4 cu foot bag of Sunshine Coarse Perlite and Sunshine Coarse Vermiculite for 30 dollars each. If you're lucky enough to live in the right area you can find Promix HP 2 cu ft bag for 15.98 at Lowes now. I found a Farmer's Coop store about a hour's drive that was showing Promix BX on their website.

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Old June 29, 2013   #10
tlintx
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tania View Post
I prefer 3:2:1 mix of peat moss, perlite and vermiculite and then mix it with the same amount of comport or composted manure. This mixture works very well for tomatoes and anything else I grow in pots.
This sounds very much like what I was looking for! Do you add anything else besides the compost? Lime or fertilizer?

I don't have access to good homemade compost this year but I can buy some cow manure. I'm working on my own compost pile!


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Old June 29, 2013   #11
Tania
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tlintx View Post
This sounds very much like what I was looking for! Do you add anything else besides the compost? Lime or fertilizer?

I don't have access to good homemade compost this year but I can buy some cow manure. I'm working on my own compost pile!


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Tl,

I add some alfalfa meal (you can add blood meal instead), a bit of lime, and bone meal to the mix. Later I may also occasionally water with some diluted natural goodies rich in N-P-K and Ca (i.e. alfalfa tea, kelp, liquid fish, diluted yogurt leftovers, etc). Tomatoes love it.
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Old June 29, 2013   #12
Ed of Somis
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not sure if this was mentioned...we always screen things like bark, perlite, etc to rid the mix of fine particles that will clog up our free draining mix. Draining is only as good as the smallest particle. I know you guys are tired of hearing me say "how many bb's do you need to put into a cup of pudding to make it drain?". Insect screen on a 2x4 frame is perfect.
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Old June 29, 2013   #13
tlintx
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ed of Somis View Post
not sure if this was mentioned...we always screen things like bark, perlite, etc to rid the mix of fine particles that will clog up our free draining mix. Draining is only as good as the smallest particle. I know you guys are tired of hearing me say "how many bb's do you need to put into a cup of pudding to make it drain?". Insect screen on a 2x4 frame is perfect.
I'm guessing about ten times as much pudding volume in bbs. But then you have to ask... why are my bbs sticky?

Tania, thank you! This is the first organic recipe I've ever seen that seems achievable on a "local store" level, as opposed to an "I order everything online in 70lb bags" level. Simple, straightforward, proven for vegetables - exactly what I've been looking for for ages. You should put up a thread! I think I will use up the fertilizers I have on hand but transition over as soon as I run out and the compost is ready.

This is a far cry from where I was at the beginning of the season -- poorly made 5:1:1 mix that I couldn't source perlite for! I have no idea why the stores near here don't stock bulk perlite until well after spring planting!
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