F1 colors in crossed tomatoes - summary of info from the Dwarf Project

**nctomatoman** · July 21, 2011

Patty had a post that gave me an idea....the Dwarf Project crossing experts have created over 40 new F1s using some unusually colored parents - we've now ended up with information on color dominance (in the F1), as well as what sort of possibilities (most expected, some just plain weird) in subsequent generations.

I am going to start this and probably come back to it and add to it through edits - Vince, Ray, Patrina, Lee - others who've done crossed feel free to add to this.

So I've started by putting down parent colors and F1 colors - and it is interesting to note how we started using some of our own, not yet stabilized dwarfs as female parents. With quite a few large fruited, colored dwarfs now stable, if we choose, we can go for some really big fruited dwarfs!

Sneezy - yellow X green (clear skinned). F1 is yellow. Offspring color - pale yellow, medium yellow, near white, green (all with clear skin, pale pink blush). Consistently great flavor. 6 named varieties being sold, 3 more on the way, 5 on the backburner. 14 total named varieties!
Grumpy - red X purple. F1 is red. Offspring color - red, pink, brown. (we've not seen purple yet, which surprises me). Great flavor hasn't been easy to find. 4 named varieties to this point, 1 of them high priority.
Happy - pink X brown. F1 is red. Offspring color - red, pink, purple, brown. Some with excellent flavor. 1 named variety being sold, 3 are nearly ready.
Sleepy - red X pink. F1 is red. Offspring color - red, pink, purple. One of the better crosses for excellent flavor. 1 named variety being sold, 1 is very close, 1 on the backburner.
Bashful - yellow X orange (thought to be crossed). F1 is red. Offspring color - red, pink, white, yellow, orange. Flavor hasn't been there.
Dopey - yellow X bicolor. F1 is yellow orange. Offspring color - yellow, orange, red/yellow bicolor. For the most part, flavor isn't there. 1 named variety is quite close
Doc - red X (orange X red, we think). F1 is red. All offspring so far - red. One of the weakest crosses - none with good flavor.
Witty - red X green (yellow skinned). F1 is red. Offspring color - red, yellow, brown, green flesh/yellow skin. Good to very good flavor, generally, not easy to stabilize. 5 named varieties, currently on the backburner.
Dreamy - very pale yellow X white. F1 is white. Offspring - white, pale yellow, green (clear skin). Hard to find great flavor. 1 named variety, on the backburner.
Cheeky - yellow X brown. F1 is red. Offspring color - pink, purple, red, green (yellow skin), brown. Very good flavor in general, not easy to stabilize. 4 named varieties, being developed slowly - on the backburner
Stumpy- pink X pink. F1 is pink. All offspring so far pink. Flavor not memorable. 1 named variety, on the backburner.
Tipsy - yellow X orange. F1 is red. Offspring colors - red, yellow, nearly white, gold, deep orange, perhaps purple (need to confirm). Some outstanding flavor in selections. 3 named varieties, two of which are highest priority, the other a high priority.
Wishful - pink X bicolor (thought to be crossed). F1 is pink. Offspring color - red, pink. One of the worst crosses for good finds.
Sleazy A - pink X purple. F1 is pink. Offspring color - red, pink, purple, brown (maybe - we need to confirm this color). Some with very good flavor. 1 named variety being sold
Sleazy B - pink X purple. F1 is pink. Offspring color - pink, purple. Some with very good flavor - hasn't had much focus.
Eventful - cross of two F1s- orange X red. F1 is unusual - pink/red skin, orange flesh. Offspring, yellow, orange, nearly white. Weak flavors in general.
Dotty - pink X pink. no germination of F1 seed, so no results....dead end at this point.
Grizzly - oink X red. F1 is red. Offspring colors - pink, red. High flavor potential, has been stubborn to find something memorable.
Teary - red X orange. F1 is red. Offspring color so far - orange (not widely explored yet). No good finds yet.
Sneaky - red (but not yet stable) X red. F1 is red. Offspring so far - red, brown (not widely explored yet). No good finds yet.
Nosey - red X yellow. F1 is red. Offspring colors - yellow, red, pink, gold, yellow/red. Lots of colors, but flavor and size not quite there. Good candidates for backcrossing for size and flavor. 5 named varieties at least, being developed more slowly- on the backburner somewhat.
Pesty - pink X red yellow bicolor. F1 is pink. Offspring colors - pink, and yellow/red bicolor. Should get more focus, some real beauties with nice flavor.
Loopy - red (not stable yet) X brown. F1 is red. Offspring colors - red, brown (not yet widely explored). Nothing memorable yet
Plucky - yellow X yellow. F1 is yellow. Offspring - white, yellow (not yet widely explored). Hard to find good flavored selections.
Dizzy - bicolor (not yet stable) X bicolor. F1 is bicolor. Offspring colors - shades of yellow, yellow/red bicolor. Great potential here. 1 named variety is very close and is a high priority.
Dinky - pink (not stabilized) X brown. F1 is pink. Offspring colors - pink, purple. Some really tasty cherry sized fruit, needs more work.
Jaunty - bicolor (not yet stable) X bicolor. F1 is bicolor. Offspring colors - shades of yellow, yellow/red bicolor. Same story as Dizzy. 1 named variety is in development.
Muddy - yellow X purple. F1 is pink. Offspring colors - pink, purple. Same story as Dinky.
Quirky - red (not yet stable) X green stripe. F1 is faintly striped green. Offspring colors - green flesh/amber skin, striped skin/green flesh. Nothing very promising flavor wise yet.
Streaky - pink (not yet stable) X brown/green stripe. F1 is red/gold stripe. Offspring colors - red, bronze, chocolate/green striped. One great selection appearance wise - not outstanding in flavor. 1 named variety is nearly ready for release.
Plentiful - red (not yet stable) X purple. Two different F1s - red and pink. Offspring colors - red, pink, brown, pale orange. One of the most promising for flavorful offspring. 5 named varieties in development, all will be high priority.
Lazy - brown (not yet stable) X purple. F1 is brown. Offspring colors - purple, brown. Hasn't given us much flavor wise yet.
Sunny - yellow (not yet stable) X orange. Two different F1s - pink and orange. Offspring colors - pink, orange, purple. Should be some great ones, has been tough to find the great flavors.
Rosy - purple (not yet stable) X orange. Two different F1s - pink and red. Offspring colors - purple, orange, pink, green/orange blend (odd!). Some really good flavor finds here. 2 named varieties are in progress, and will be high priority.
Snowy - red (not yet stable) X white. Two different F1s - pink and red. Offspring colors - red, pink, white. Flavors haven't been outstanding yet with the exception of one find (still variable). 1 named variety is in progress and a high priority.
Frosty - purple (not yet stable) X purple. F1 is purple. Offspring colors so far - purple. Should yield some great flavors.
Tasty - purple (not yet stable) X pink. F1 is pink. Offspring colors so far - pink. Great flavor potential for selections. 2 named varieties are in development and a high priority.
Porky - purple (not yet stable) X brown. F1 is purple. Offspring so far - purple. Very good potential for size and flavor. 2 named varieties are being worked on and will be a high priority.
Tidy - purple (not yet stable) X purple/green stripe. F1 is purple, faint stripes. Offspring colors - purple, results on the way (work in progress). Should have some good finds - early days yet.
Hazy - purple (not yet stable) X purple. F1 is purple. Offspring colors - work in progress. No idea how this one will work out.
Messy - purple (not yet stable) X purple/green stripe. F1 is purple with faint stripes. Offspring colors - work in progress. No idea how this one will work out. 1 named variety is in development and looks promising.
Beauty - purple (not yet stable) X red/green stripes. F1 is red with faint stripes. Offspring colors - all sorts of stripes and solids - green, purple, chocolate, red. Interesting cross - work in progress. Should produce some lookers - will the flavor be there? 2 named varieties are in development and could be a high priority if the flavor is there - the colors should be something!
Brawny - pink (not yet stable) X red. F1 is red. Offspring colors - red, pink. High potential for size and flavor.

I've now put in to the best of my knowledge the colors we are seeing, as well as numbers of named varieties released or in development for each cross.

Amazingly, this project started in 2006....and we have 9 named varieties on the market, and another approx 54 named varieties at various stages of work!

maf · July 21, 2011

One thing to consider here is that when one of the parents is not stabilised, as in some of the listed crosses, there will be segregation in the F1 generation. I know that for some of the crosses to unstable parents you list two possible F1 colours, but it would be interesting to know how many F1 plants were grown in each of these crosses as, if the number was few, some of the potential colour recombinations could have been missed.

(BTW this post is not intended as a criticism, just an observation. I have much respect for the efforts of the individuals who have worked on the dwarf project, and look forward to sampling some of the results one day!)

**nctomatoman** · July 21, 2011

Absolutely! We did realize that we were complicating things by doing so....but since we are in it to learn and have fun - and we have so much material that the need for completeness isn't there (at this point) - and we did end up finding most of the colors we were looking for.

A few real mysteries to me - the F1 color of Tipsy (and red is showing up in some of the offspring)....where the purple came from in the Sleepy line....where the red came from in the Sleazy A line, as well as potato leaf.

Which reminds me - I didn't even go to leaf shape yet. So perhaps this post/thread will end up growing beyond color!

maf · July 21, 2011

Quote:

Originally Posted by nctomatoman

......
A few real mysteries to me - the F1 color of Tipsy (and red is showing up in some of the offspring)

I have never crossed a yellow tomato to an orange one, but as the yellow gene and most of the genes for orange flesh are recessive, it seems posible the red could be dominant in the F1. Did you see something like a 1:1:2 ratio for yellow: orange: Red in the F2?

For the Sleepy line, I suspect the purple came from a bee, but as I was not there at the time I cannot be sure

**Lee** · July 21, 2011

The green/orange blend in the Rosy line is the most unusual. Especially since the seed I saved was from a solid orange in the F2!
The F3 is throwing coloration identical to Uluru Ochre which was found
in the F2......

Lee

July 21, 2011	#1
nctomatoman Tomatoville® Moderator Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Hendersonville, NC zone 7 Posts: 10,385	F1 colors in crossed tomatoes - summary of info from the Dwarf Project Patty had a post that gave me an idea....the Dwarf Project crossing experts have created over 40 new F1s using some unusually colored parents - we've now ended up with information on color dominance (in the F1), as well as what sort of possibilities (most expected, some just plain weird) in subsequent generations. I am going to start this and probably come back to it and add to it through edits - Vince, Ray, Patrina, Lee - others who've done crossed feel free to add to this. So I've started by putting down parent colors and F1 colors - and it is interesting to note how we started using some of our own, not yet stabilized dwarfs as female parents. With quite a few large fruited, colored dwarfs now stable, if we choose, we can go for some really big fruited dwarfs! Sneezy - yellow X green (clear skinned). F1 is yellow. Offspring color - pale yellow, medium yellow, near white, green (all with clear skin, pale pink blush). Consistently great flavor. 6 named varieties being sold, 3 more on the way, 5 on the backburner. 14 total named varieties! Grumpy - red X purple. F1 is red. Offspring color - red, pink, brown. (we've not seen purple yet, which surprises me). Great flavor hasn't been easy to find. 4 named varieties to this point, 1 of them high priority. Happy - pink X brown. F1 is red. Offspring color - red, pink, purple, brown. Some with excellent flavor. 1 named variety being sold, 3 are nearly ready. Sleepy - red X pink. F1 is red. Offspring color - red, pink, purple. One of the better crosses for excellent flavor. 1 named variety being sold, 1 is very close, 1 on the backburner. Bashful - yellow X orange (thought to be crossed). F1 is red. Offspring color - red, pink, white, yellow, orange. Flavor hasn't been there. Dopey - yellow X bicolor. F1 is yellow orange. Offspring color - yellow, orange, red/yellow bicolor. For the most part, flavor isn't there. 1 named variety is quite close Doc - red X (orange X red, we think). F1 is red. All offspring so far - red. One of the weakest crosses - none with good flavor. Witty - red X green (yellow skinned). F1 is red. Offspring color - red, yellow, brown, green flesh/yellow skin. Good to very good flavor, generally, not easy to stabilize. 5 named varieties, currently on the backburner. Dreamy - very pale yellow X white. F1 is white. Offspring - white, pale yellow, green (clear skin). Hard to find great flavor. 1 named variety, on the backburner. Cheeky - yellow X brown. F1 is red. Offspring color - pink, purple, red, green (yellow skin), brown. Very good flavor in general, not easy to stabilize. 4 named varieties, being developed slowly - on the backburner Stumpy- pink X pink. F1 is pink. All offspring so far pink. Flavor not memorable. 1 named variety, on the backburner. Tipsy - yellow X orange. F1 is red. Offspring colors - red, yellow, nearly white, gold, deep orange, perhaps purple (need to confirm). Some outstanding flavor in selections. 3 named varieties, two of which are highest priority, the other a high priority. Wishful - pink X bicolor (thought to be crossed). F1 is pink. Offspring color - red, pink. One of the worst crosses for good finds. Sleazy A - pink X purple. F1 is pink. Offspring color - red, pink, purple, brown (maybe - we need to confirm this color). Some with very good flavor. 1 named variety being sold Sleazy B - pink X purple. F1 is pink. Offspring color - pink, purple. Some with very good flavor - hasn't had much focus. Eventful - cross of two F1s- orange X red. F1 is unusual - pink/red skin, orange flesh. Offspring, yellow, orange, nearly white. Weak flavors in general. Dotty - pink X pink. no germination of F1 seed, so no results....dead end at this point. Grizzly - oink X red. F1 is red. Offspring colors - pink, red. High flavor potential, has been stubborn to find something memorable. Teary - red X orange. F1 is red. Offspring color so far - orange (not widely explored yet). No good finds yet. Sneaky - red (but not yet stable) X red. F1 is red. Offspring so far - red, brown (not widely explored yet). No good finds yet. Nosey - red X yellow. F1 is red. Offspring colors - yellow, red, pink, gold, yellow/red. Lots of colors, but flavor and size not quite there. Good candidates for backcrossing for size and flavor. 5 named varieties at least, being developed more slowly- on the backburner somewhat. Pesty - pink X red yellow bicolor. F1 is pink. Offspring colors - pink, and yellow/red bicolor. Should get more focus, some real beauties with nice flavor. Loopy - red (not stable yet) X brown. F1 is red. Offspring colors - red, brown (not yet widely explored). Nothing memorable yet Plucky - yellow X yellow. F1 is yellow. Offspring - white, yellow (not yet widely explored). Hard to find good flavored selections. Dizzy - bicolor (not yet stable) X bicolor. F1 is bicolor. Offspring colors - shades of yellow, yellow/red bicolor. Great potential here. 1 named variety is very close and is a high priority. Dinky - pink (not stabilized) X brown. F1 is pink. Offspring colors - pink, purple. Some really tasty cherry sized fruit, needs more work. Jaunty - bicolor (not yet stable) X bicolor. F1 is bicolor. Offspring colors - shades of yellow, yellow/red bicolor. Same story as Dizzy. 1 named variety is in development. Muddy - yellow X purple. F1 is pink. Offspring colors - pink, purple. Same story as Dinky. Quirky - red (not yet stable) X green stripe. F1 is faintly striped green. Offspring colors - green flesh/amber skin, striped skin/green flesh. Nothing very promising flavor wise yet. Streaky - pink (not yet stable) X brown/green stripe. F1 is red/gold stripe. Offspring colors - red, bronze, chocolate/green striped. One great selection appearance wise - not outstanding in flavor. 1 named variety is nearly ready for release. Plentiful - red (not yet stable) X purple. Two different F1s - red and pink. Offspring colors - red, pink, brown, pale orange. One of the most promising for flavorful offspring. 5 named varieties in development, all will be high priority. Lazy - brown (not yet stable) X purple. F1 is brown. Offspring colors - purple, brown. Hasn't given us much flavor wise yet. Sunny - yellow (not yet stable) X orange. Two different F1s - pink and orange. Offspring colors - pink, orange, purple. Should be some great ones, has been tough to find the great flavors. Rosy - purple (not yet stable) X orange. Two different F1s - pink and red. Offspring colors - purple, orange, pink, green/orange blend (odd!). Some really good flavor finds here. 2 named varieties are in progress, and will be high priority. Snowy - red (not yet stable) X white. Two different F1s - pink and red. Offspring colors - red, pink, white. Flavors haven't been outstanding yet with the exception of one find (still variable). 1 named variety is in progress and a high priority. Frosty - purple (not yet stable) X purple. F1 is purple. Offspring colors so far - purple. Should yield some great flavors. Tasty - purple (not yet stable) X pink. F1 is pink. Offspring colors so far - pink. Great flavor potential for selections. 2 named varieties are in development and a high priority. Porky - purple (not yet stable) X brown. F1 is purple. Offspring so far - purple. Very good potential for size and flavor. 2 named varieties are being worked on and will be a high priority. Tidy - purple (not yet stable) X purple/green stripe. F1 is purple, faint stripes. Offspring colors - purple, results on the way (work in progress). Should have some good finds - early days yet. Hazy - purple (not yet stable) X purple. F1 is purple. Offspring colors - work in progress. No idea how this one will work out. Messy - purple (not yet stable) X purple/green stripe. F1 is purple with faint stripes. Offspring colors - work in progress. No idea how this one will work out. 1 named variety is in development and looks promising. Beauty - purple (not yet stable) X red/green stripes. F1 is red with faint stripes. Offspring colors - all sorts of stripes and solids - green, purple, chocolate, red. Interesting cross - work in progress. Should produce some lookers - will the flavor be there? 2 named varieties are in development and could be a high priority if the flavor is there - the colors should be something! Brawny - pink (not yet stable) X red. F1 is red. Offspring colors - red, pink. High potential for size and flavor. I've now put in to the best of my knowledge the colors we are seeing, as well as numbers of named varieties released or in development for each cross. Amazingly, this project started in 2006....and we have 9 named varieties on the market, and another approx 54 named varieties at various stages of work! __________________ Craig

July 21, 2011	#3
nctomatoman Tomatoville® Moderator Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Hendersonville, NC zone 7 Posts: 10,385	Absolutely! We did realize that we were complicating things by doing so....but since we are in it to learn and have fun - and we have so much material that the need for completeness isn't there (at this point) - and we did end up finding most of the colors we were looking for. A few real mysteries to me - the F1 color of Tipsy (and red is showing up in some of the offspring)....where the purple came from in the Sleepy line....where the red came from in the Sleazy A line, as well as potato leaf. Which reminds me - I didn't even go to leaf shape yet. So perhaps this post/thread will end up growing beyond color! __________________ Craig

July 21, 2011	#5
Lee Tomatopalooza™ Moderator Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: NC-Zone 7 Posts: 2,188	The green/orange blend in the Rosy line is the most unusual. Especially since the seed I saved was from a solid orange in the F2! The F3 is throwing coloration identical to Uluru Ochre which was found in the F2...... Lee __________________ Intelligence is knowing a tomato is a fruit. Wisdom is knowing not to put one in a fruit salad. Cuostralee - The best thing on sliced bread.

July 21, 2011	#2
maf Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: England Posts: 512	One thing to consider here is that when one of the parents is not stabilised, as in some of the listed crosses, there will be segregation in the F1 generation. I know that for some of the crosses to unstable parents you list two possible F1 colours, but it would be interesting to know how many F1 plants were grown in each of these crosses as, if the number was few, some of the potential colour recombinations could have been missed. (BTW this post is not intended as a criticism, just an observation. I have much respect for the efforts of the individuals who have worked on the dwarf project, and look forward to sampling some of the results one day!)