Starting 25+ year old 'Walter' Seed

[carolyn137]

Originally Posted by Wi-sunflower

From what I read when I first got it about 15 years ago --

Walter is a U of Florida variety and was "reselected" at a field station named Villemaire. I think in Florida. At least that has been my understanding all these years.

Now what or why a "reselection" I have no idea.

Which may bring us back to why the OP wants to revive "original" seed. Walter seed may have varied over the years.

If he can get some going I'll gladly send some of my seed for him to compare it with.

carol

Carol, if you look at post 6 in this thread you'll see why Bill wanted to work with those original seeds that he got from the grand daughter, I think it was, of the original breeder of Walter.

SInce this is original seed that he has it wouldn't have changed at all from what it was bred as and when first introduced.

[Wi-sunflower]

Yes, that's what I said - original vs what is out now.

Carol

[carolyn137]

Originally Posted by Wi-sunflower

Yes, that's what I said - original vs what is out now.

Carol

Carol, it must be the Holiday season, ahem, but what I was answering in my above post is what you posted above:

(Which may bring us back to why the OP wants to revive "original" seed. Walter seed may have varied over the years.)

You asked why the Original Poster wanted to revive original seeds, which they were as given to him, well, as described above.

That's why I pointed you to post #6 I think it was where he explains why he does want to try to wake up those original seeds.

And in the parens above you said that Walter seed may have varied over the years, and that could well be true, but as I posted above, he HAS original seeds so no chance of variation with those seeds.

He knows he can get Walter seed elsewhere now, but wants to try and wake up those original Walter seeds.

And I hope that he or Sir Tanon or others can do so b'c then a comparison with later versions of that variety can be done to see how the original might vary from those later versions.

And now to spend the next several days in the backroom, cleaning off my tomato seed packing table, taking the seeds sent in and putting them in the labelled envelopes, inventorying what I have and can offer or reoffer of have to delete for my seed offer, and then organizing those by year......oh heck, I'm in the middle of a good book, I don't want to start doing all of that, so I won't.

[Wi-sunflower]

Carolyn,

I wasn't asking WHY, just commenting that that may BE why.

I understood all along that he may feel that the current Walter seed may be different from the original Walter that he has.



I'm a "lefty" and as such often my brain seems to work differently than most of the "righties" in the world. What seems perfectly clear and obvious to me, can be clear as mud to other people. I'm sorry if I don't always make myself understood.

Carol

[sirtanon]

I can't speak for the OP, but I find the possibility of re-awakening these seeds fascinating for two reasons, neither of which are the fact that it would be most true-to-form. Granted, that's a good reason, too

1 - These seeds may as well have been the original 'ready-for-sharing' generation. Heck, they may have actually been earlier than that. The fact that these were 'in the family' just makes them 'heritage' so to speak. I find it very cool that these could very well have been the 'Adam' of this variety.

2 - Given that the exact age of these seeds is unknown, we could very well be looking at 40-year-old seed. Personally, I don't get my hands on seed this old.. ever. Considering I was born in '72, this seed could even be older than I am. If I'm able to awaken even one of them, I think this would be pretty amazing.

and, of course.. I've never grown Walter, so there's that

[zeroma]

Just curious, but did any one wake Walter up?

[Redbaron]

Originally Posted by zeroma

Just curious, but did any one wake Walter up?

I don't know but this is the method I will be using for the variety Red Baron

[zeroma]

Since I don't have a chicken incubator, does a growing heating pad with a temp. control work as well, with or without a cover?

I have a few seeds from 2002 and 2004 that I'm going to give a try with using this method!

[wpmoorej]

Hello everyone. I had no luck trying to awake these seeds. I have not heard back from anyone who had success waking them either. Glad to see some people are still interested over a year later!

[Fusion_power]

Do you still have some seed?

DarJones

[zeroma]

Sorry you had no luck with Walter. I love having the time to read many of the older posts so I keep learning tomato stuff! As I've said before, this site is the best for picking other gardener's brains!!! Others experience and experimentation keeps me thinking my tomatoes will be great this year! Thanks everyone.

[Rideau Rambler]

I am too inexperienced to really comment in this thread, but I think it would be really neat, since you mentioned that you had a large quantity, if you sent 10 seeds/packet, enough packets for everyone who participates in Heather's annual Fall tomato swap and is interested - to send out a challenge and see if anyone can revive them. As someone said, if a seeds dead, it's dead, but it would cost almost nothing (due to large group distribution) and might be interesting. After all how often do any of us get to try something like that? So very neat that you took on this challenge and tried. I have greatly enjoyed reading and learning in this thread.

[Sun City Linda]

Dar is lonely. He doesnt have enough tomato babies.

[carolyn137]

Originally Posted by Rideau Rambler

I am too inexperienced to really comment in this thread, but I think it would be really neat, since you mentioned that you had a large quantity, if you sent 10 seeds/packet, enough packets for everyone who participates in Heather's annual Fall tomato swap and is interested - to send out a challenge and see if anyone can revive them. As someone said, if a seeds dead, it's dead, but it would cost almost nothing (due to large group distribution) and might be interesting. After all how often do any of us get to try something like that? So very neat that you took on this challenge and tried. I have greatly enjoyed reading and learning in this thread.

10 seeds/packet is not going to do it IMO even if spread out with quite a few growers and they'd have to be told what the odds were, and I've given some of that info below, and then what the best way to try is and explain that it would be best if they'd had at least some experience in waking up old seeds, at least 12-15 yo or older..

I know from my seed offers which started back in the 80's that I can have fresh seeds,lets say 2012 produced seeds for my recent 2013 offer here and the range of percent germination for ONE variety can range from 100% to zero, yes, zero %

Years ago when it was possible to get seeds out of the USDA Craig ( nctomatoman) and I were sent many varieties where the seeds were almost all dead. We were sent LOTS of seeds and so tried everything we could to wake them up , I won't go into the details here.

But well I remember working with seeds of Magnus, which was a Livingston variety on the cover of their 1900 catalog.

I got ONE seed up out of 200 seeds treated and sowed.

So I don't think working with just 10 seeds is going to be useful.

This past season I sent some 1994 seeds of Tadesse to 4 folks who had volunteered to try to wake them up and everyone got some some up. And I just sent Red Baron lots of seed for some saved 1995 Red Baron seeds. And I'd sent 1994 seed of a rin mutant to Frogsleapfarm and he got them up as well.

My own puny record is waking up seeds of September Dawn that were 22 yo.

The world documented record for waking up old seeds were some varieties that were moved from Cheyenne WY where a precurser to the USDA had a station, to Ames IA and they were able to wake up 50 yo seed that had been stored in a filing cabinet in WY.

I never explained what I do to wake up old seeds, and it has varied thru the years. but I wouldn't be that encouraged about waking up 46 yo seeds.

For seeds less than 4-5 yo i do nothing,. over about 5 yo I'll double sow. For seeds over about 10-12 years I'll do my soaking routine and cross my fingers, but it also depends very much on how someone has stored the seeds in the intervening years as to how dehydrated and/or destroyed they are.,

Carolyn

[sirtanon]

I know I'm resurrecting a 4 1/2 year old thread here, but I figured I'd chime in and provide a little update, in case anyone is interested.

I still have LOTS of the Walter seeds that the OP provided, and I went ahead and took another shot at trying to revive them. A few days ago, I took out approximately 50 or so seeds and let them soak for a few hours in a dilute Miracle Gro solution. I then set them into some carefully prepared seed starting mix of Coco coir, peat, vermiculite and perlite, and covered them and set the up on a shelf in a warm spot in my office.

It's only been a few days, so it's far too early to provide any results, but we'll see.

I can say, however, that I also started a ton of other seeds at the same time, including some 10-year-old Rocket/Arugula seed, and some 7-year-old Basil seed, and both of those have sprouted. I'm counting those as a good omen.