Brandywine Cowlicks

[b54red]

Carolyn I really believe there is a definite genetic difference between Cowlick's and Sudduth's. I know they are very similar and production and taste are usually neck and neck but I have found two differences that show up year after year and I always plant them side by side in several spots in the garden. The first big difference is when there is heavy rain or too much water or even if the fruits are very large the Sudduth tends to have splits pop up on the bottom of the fruit. The other big difference is the much better ability of Cowlick's to set fruit once the heat sets in down here where the heat really sets in. You might get an occasional fruit set out of a Sudduth once June gets going but Cowlicks keeps on setting; but of course not like when the cooler nights of spring are still here. Of course these are purely anecdotal but these two differences seem to be present every year for me. I usually plant 3 to 5 pairs of the two plants each season but this year I am not planting Sudduth's in my later plantings after the results of the last couple of years because of the negligible fruit set in very hot weather. Cowlick's is not a great fruit setter in the intense heat but it is nowhere near as stingy as Sudduth's.


Bill

[Hudson_WY]

Originally Posted by ddsack

Just got around to reading this thread on a rainy morning. Nice photos as always, Hudson! And I'll be waiting to hear about your taste test results when you've got some ripe from all three. I don't pinch out megablooms either - lots of meat in those big tomatoes to chop up for salsa or tossed salads, how many perfect slices of tomato are you going to need anyway? I'd rather have an early lumpy tomato than a perfect one that is two or three weeks later. Short season for me, so I am not picky.

I agree with you ddsack - I never pinch out megabloooms unless there is a problem with ripening. Thanks for the photo compliments. Here are a few more - can't wait to taste Cowlick's and compare with Brandywine Sudduth and Brandy Boy!!

[SteveP]

Hudson, beautiful pics and tomatoes. I am growing 4 Brandywine for the first time this year, but I have no idea of which strain they are. They were just labeled Brandywine Pink. Is there a visible way to determine the difference?

[Hudson_WY]

Steve, When you buy the seed you need to purchase Brandywine Pink, Brandywine Cowlick's, Brandywine OTV, Brandywine Sudduth etc. depending on which Brandywine variety you want to plant. You have apparently purchased Brandywine Pink seed so that is what you've got.

[Gardeneer]

Originally Posted by SteveP

Hudson, beautiful pics and tomatoes. I am growing 4 Brandywine for the first time this year, but I have no idea of which strain they are. They were just labeled Brandywine Pink. Is there a visible way to determine the difference?

Probably (!) it is Sudduth strain....People would just drop the suffix.
But as Hudson said, try to make sure that it is Sudduth or Cowlick's strain.

[SteveP]

Originally Posted by Hudson_WY

Steve, When you buy the seed you need to purchase Brandywine Pink, Brandywine Cowlick's, Brandywine OTV, Brandywine Sudduth etc. depending on which Brandywine variety you want to plant. You have apparently purchased Brandywine Pink seed so that is what you've got.

I haven't started growing from seed yet. I just buy small 3" plants that come in a 4pk for $1.29. Whatever they are, I am ready! Thanks for the explanation.

[SteveP]

Originally Posted by Gardeneer

Probably (!) it is Sudduth strain....People would just drop the suffix.
But as Hudson said, try to make sure that it is Sudduth or Cowlick's strain.

Thanks Gardeneer, I have much to learn.

[MissS]

Growing just Brandywine is fine. After all Cowlick's and Suddoth are both just Brandywine's that someone has named as a strain. I have grown both and I also have grown "Brandywine". I have a Brandywine that has surpassed both the popular strains in production. Flavor, no. All of them are Brandywine and have the same flavor. So, enjoy those Brandywine plants that you have gotten!

[AKmark]

Originally Posted by MissS

Growing just Brandywine is fine. After all Cowlick's and Suddoth are both just Brandywine's that someone has named as a strain. I have grown both and I also have grown "Brandywine". I have a Brandywine that has surpassed both the popular strains in production. Flavor, no. All of them are Brandywine and have the same flavor. So, enjoy those Brandywine plants that you have gotten!

I think I may have to agree. I have grown about every BW I could get my hands on, the BW Pink, Sudduth's, Cowlick's are very similar. I do give Sudduth's a slight edge in taste consistency year after year, but not always, Cowlick's seems to yield a bit more, but not always.

A good investment in breeding a line, in any given area for years, could slightly alter it from the source, as well as any unmentioned cross in time.

Here is the million dollar question, "how old is the pink BW (anything) we have today? Correct me if I am wrong, but the J.S. original was red, and the seed obtained from Sudduth was not all pure. I am going off of memory with those remarks, and there is a chance I am mixing up my thoughts, but that is how I remember the tale.

Nowadays, I think BW makes better breeding stock than just growing it. IMHO

[Dewayne mater]

I can tell you that the possum that has been ravaging my tomatoes has a clear preference for Cowlicks over BW Sudd.

They are growing side by side. Each have lots of low hanging fruit, but this little S*#! has been taste testing Cowlicks nightly and seems to like JD's Spec CTex just as much as Cowlicks. He's not touched Brandywine Sudd. for reasons I can't imagine.

He won't be getting any more though because I put the remaining 85% of a one pound or so BW Cow in the have a heart trap last night and I came out this morning to find the trap set, the culprit caught and the entire tomato I put in there consumed! Vengeance at last!

This has been my best year for using a string method of double stems and leaning down the plants and I could not tolerate this little bugger any more! Over the last week, he got about 20 tomatoes that were probably a day from starting to blush. I guess they are able to tell by smell before the first signs of color appear.

Dewayne Mater

[Hudson_WY]

And the winner of the taste test is...................Brandy Boy - without question!!! As tested by both myself and my wife. Maybe it is our soil or the sulfur - who knows. I know tomatoes will taste different grown in different locations. Brandy Boy has a stronger flavor and zingy kick than any tomato we have tried. It is in the class of the best Heirlooms we have grown - in our opinion!!

[carolyn137]

Originally Posted by MissS

Growing just Brandywine is fine. After all Cowlick's and Suddoth are both just Brandywine's that someone has named as a strain. I have grown both and I also have grown "Brandywine". I have a Brandywine that has surpassed both the popular strains in production. Flavor, no. All of them are Brandywine and have the same flavor. So, enjoy those Brandywine plants that you have gotten!

I couldn't find the link I wanted to so no,I don't agree with you that Sudduth is the same as Cowlicks or could be. Yes, Cowlicks was named by Camo,Mike Henry since he bought the plant at Cowlicks Nursery so it could have been any ole pink brandywine.

But the Sudduth/Quisenberry one is quite a different story.

http://t.tatianastomatobase.com:88/w...e,_Sudduth%27s

Carolyn

[MissS]

Carolyn, a few times you have stated that Brandywine is a Pink PL most likely what is known as Brandywine Suddoth's strain from Ben Quisenberry. Brandywine Pink is the same as Brandywine and Brandywine Cowlick's is a strain of Brandywine. All from which were bred by Ben Quisenberry with the name of Brandywine Suddoth. Ben himself referred to the tomato as "Brandywine" as shown in his own handwriting on a piece of paper posted by his grandson, LQberry, here on the forum in this thread. http://www.tomatoville.com/showthread.php?t=7544

In a thread titled "Brandywine's", you yourself state, that you believe that they are the same.

[carolyn137]

Originally Posted by MissS

Carolyn, a few times you have stated that Brandywine is a Pink PL most likely what is known as Brandywine Suddoth's strain from Ben Quisenberry. Brandywine Pink is the same as Brandywine and Brandywine Cowlick's is a strain of Brandywine. All from which were bred by Ben Quisenberry with the name of Brandywine Suddoth. Ben himself referred to the tomato as "Brandywine" as shown in his own handwriting on a piece of paper posted by his grandson, LQberry, here on the forum in this thread. http://www.tomatoville.com/showthread.php?t=7544

In a thread titled "Brandywine's", you yourself state, that you believe that they are the same.

Patti,let me try again.

Ben Quisenberry bred nothing at all,he collected varieties from many places,all by writing letters since few had computers back then.

And yes, I should have linked to Ben's grandson in that long thread in the Legacy Forum,I know it well as you can see all the questions that we asked him.

If you check out Ken Ettlinger web site,well here, I'll link to it about Ben Quisenberry

http://www.liseed.org/brandy.html

You can read his interesting story in that link.

Another person who was sent seeds by Ben was Kees Sahin,of Sahin Seeds in the Netherlands.Kees followed a lot that was happening in the US. Kees died several years ago and his superb website was bought by others.

Another place you can look to document what I've said is Amy Goldman's tomato book
about the Sudduth one since she interviewed Doris Sudduth Hill's grand children about it.

Carolyn, who hopes the above clarifies this issue for you and you can also grab the article at Victory Seeds that Craig Le Houllier wrote about the history of the Brandywines, if you want to..There's also an interesting thread here at Tville where I defined what a strain is,I think I did a pretty darn good job of it,since there are two meanings of the word strain in reference to tomatoes.

[Hudson_WY]

Brandywine Cowlick's
July 5, 2017