Growing Laterals...

[MissS]

I use a mix of cool and warm white florescent bulbs and my plants have done just fine with them. This ought not be a problem at all for you.

[murihikukid]

Patti...I have Copper Sprayed all 5 laterals planted on April 6th ..........Now I think when I lowered the lights down to actually just inside the freezer it basicly created a lid effect and the heat although minimal was not escaping and built up ....How else has some Laterals leaves dried to being crisp ..The Black Tula laterals were badly affected but thats no problem as my priority is the Tasty Tom....I have now given all a liberal spray of copper...and taken photos out of the freezer so the spraying has not made the leaves look good ..I have only two sets of tubes switched on and they have been raised ..I hope the laterals below will be a lot better looking in the morning as they dry out and recover from the spraying.and light watering......Regards Ron

[murihikukid]

Patti ..here I have three March 31st laterals and I am sure two of them are Tasty Tom and they are looking pretty healthy and If they had no root growth I am sure they would not be looking as healthy as I think they are...Regards Ron

[Gardeneer]

I won't root laterals with too many big leave on. They need a lot of energy to stay healthy. I would trim ally but few small leave.

Gardeneer.

[MissS]

Ron, there may be two reasons that your cuttings have browned. The first is if after you sprayed your plants you then put the lights down while the plants were still wet. Thread after thread here in this forum stresses never to spray your plants in direct sunlight or they will burn. The other reason is as you thought that there was excess heat in your grow box which wilted your starts.

It's OK, you are learning this time around. All is not lost.

#1) Remove the lower leaf. Check the stem closely at the soil line. Is it turning dark and soft? It is hard for me to tell.

#2) Is looking great!

#3) Does not look too good. Remove leaf on the left along with the flower bud and hope for the best.

#4) Look'n good!

#5) You could remove the leaf on the left or just leave the whole plant alone and see what happens. Nothing to lose here by leaving it to try to grow on its own.

I think that your last three plants are making some roots. They are thriving nicely. You should be seeing some new growth in the next 7-10 days.

You should be proud of yourself for all that you have learned and accomplished in such a short time.

Take some time and read the pest and disease threads here at T'ville. Check out all of the nooks and crannies here. There is a lot more here for you to learn if you take the time to look.

Regards ~ Patti

[murihikukid]

Hi...This morning after the copper spray had dried I rechecked each individual cutting...Clearly there were leaves and a branch on one that were unlikely to do anything but hold growth back so I trimmed them off ....One question I do have re the Copper Spray ..apparantly I should redo in 4 days ...I do have quite a bit left over from yesterdays mix ..I wonder if it will be alright then or would I need to mix a fresh lot....
Like Patti I am uneasy about the soil that the Garden Nursery whom I got my laterals from advised me to buy...I can see her point..Its a very "Clingy or thick soil ..for want of a better description ....instead of more of a seed raising mix which falls off round the roots when one transplants.....this soil will not "fall off"

Re trimming leaves.. Yes I have read this so of course did trim but I thought the cuttings went backwards so I do not do that now unless the leaves have a problem.....Of course I welcome any opinion pointing out a Lateral photo posted where there is a /any leaves one feels should be clipped off......

All 8 floro lights are back on but in a raised position..

I wonder how many days after applying the Tom a Rite should I wait to apply Seasol....?? There is another fertilizer I have used Called Nitrosol and I have sent an email to the NZ supplier with a question re the benefits for cuttings and would it be better than Seasol..??which they also supply to Garden centers...Thats about all I can do....its just wait and hope... There are still 3 or 4 that are still looking pretty good to my eye....But although looking healthy are they growing...I just do not know?? Regards Ron.

[murihikukid]

Patti..I just had a small accident with I think #1....dropped it (the cup and all ) lifting it out of its tray to have a good look at the discolouring where the stem enters the soil.....now the jolt actually released the plant/soil from the cup so I lifted it out slightly and the soil fell off the stem at the root end ....because its night I could not see properly so I just carefully lowered it back into its cup.....I know the bottom of the stem was exposed but whether there were roots well I do not know..I was careful cause I really do not think any damage was done but this plant is not in good health so my idea is....in the morning in daylight I can carefully take the foam cup off the plant exposing the lower stem ...I will photograph it and put it back together again ....Because the soil fell off I presume there is no rooting system but there could be small roots ....This raises a question in my mind ...the released soil in the cup bottom could be replaced with a seeding mix soil and a small hole put in it for the stem and just put it together...its just an idea ...if there is any semblance of root growth it might like a seedling mix soil and its built in additives to grow in....

Your other comments were exactly as I was thinking in fact I had already clipped # 3 and # 5....Of course I have an advantage...I can lightly touch the leaves and clearly the leaves I clipped off were dead or close to it..I really need better glasses cause I never recognised the flower bud in #3 Now the lower 3 are all March 31st laterals and they are retaining strength and colour ..my problem is finding out which two are the Tasty Tom's but if I study early photographs I am sure I can work it out... The fertilizer agents have as yet not responded to my enquiry re the use of Seasol and Nitrosol.. Getting off the subject today I visited my greenhouse ...where I have a Russian Rose plant ..There is two large fruit on it with a beautiful Pink colour ..Clearly the most striking of anything in the greenhouse ...I can only hope they can fully ripen and taste as good as they look..Regards Ron

[MissS]

Well since the soil is nice and loose, pull it out and take a look and see if there are any roots. Just be gentle with it. When you re-pot it go right ahead and use your seed starting mix to fill in around it. What a good idea you have had!

As far as telling which two of the three are your Tasty Toms, can you distinguish any differences between the leaves of the 3 plants? If 2 are alike and 1 is different, then you will know who is whom. If you can not tell right now, perhaps they will show some differences as they start to get some new growth on them.

For your next plant feeding, your instructions said every 2 weeks (if I am recalling correctly). When it is time to feed them again I would choose to use the Seasol. That was a seaweed based food which would perhaps contain some growth hormones to assist with rooting and plant vigor. Your Nitrosol says that it has extra potassium which would be good to use at fruit set. You could choose to wait 10 days instead of the 14, but remember to use it a 1/2 strength.

I hope that you enjoy your Russian Rose. My favorite tomatoes are most often pink. In fact I don't remember a pink one that was a spitter for me. If you like it, remember to save yourself some seeds. (Look up Seed Saving, you want to ferment them.)

[murihikukid]

Patti...I took photos of #3 ...I just cannot tell if there is any semblance of root growth there at all ..with the plant out of its pottle ..I did blow on the stem trying to get rid of any loose soil...took the photos and then I put some Seed Raising mix in the bottom of the pottle to replace soil that had fallen off...........applied water ..poked a hole in the centre and gently put the plant back in ......I then loosened up the soil round the inside of the pottle to try and ensure there was no air cavity and lightly pushed the soil down ....and watered......

It did occur to me that maybe putting it in a water solution for a few days could be the way to go ??
As you will see in photo is looking very droopy but it may gather strength from somewhere??
Regards Ron

Sorry about the blurred photo in the centre ...I retook the photo and are they the start of roots ??there is certainly something growing on the stems ...You will see its not planted as deep ..the black on the stem ? is that a soil stain as the stem to me shows no sign of rotting....I am glad you liked my idea of resoiling.....Of course I am wondering if I should have tried it in water with a couple of drops of Seasol for a few days ..refreshing every day ....Of course this could still be done ???

Now I just realised this...The top photo has dirt on the stem which I blew off by simply blowing on it ...This indicates to me that there is something growing all be it slowly that the earth is clinging too...and of course I think can be seen in the other photos...

[murihikukid]

Patti...This is nearly a full time job for me...Yesterday I got my Rootstock Seeds for a try at grafting... I am still working on the Hatches to put on my compost system and then there is the redesigning of my greenhouse roof for next season to offset the wind factor here...So I have a lot of plans its just getting them to work out ...After seeing the magnificent Tasty Tom And another (Sweet 150 ) and how huge they were and the tomatoes on them at a Garden centre ...I realised that it does not make sense planting 50 - 60 plants producing a limited amount of fruit when with better management one can grow a few plants .look after them and get a lot more fruit..PLUS better tasting fruit...Of course it has not been a good season for me...although some locals tell me their tomatoes have been great ..others not so great....
I am learning so much now and I always have "tomatoville) for advice....I am afraid that I was told not to spray when my crop was young and that was bad advice ....If I had sprayed I may never have had the problems I had....also I have never mentioned this but I had an underneath watering system which I now regard as a hazard for spreading diseases and will have to be changed...Regards Ron

[murihikukid]

Patti..I can already see the leaf difference on one of the three which would indicate its not a Tasty Tom...I now remember why the Tasty Tom (that has failed) was put in a larger container ....I used an extra long stem ( thinking it would grow roots along the whole stem ) instead of trimming it and it failed ..Lesson learnt // and of course the original experimental one that I grew a great root system on in Seasol and water has now been put to rest simply because I failed to put it in soil at the proper time and it rotted .So this knowledge will come in handy later cause I could well be using laterals off one of the cuttings that I am now working on ..for next seasons crop ( along with some Bona Fide Tasty Toms that I will purchase from one of the gardening centers..Regards Ron

[MissS]

Ron, you are learning fast that gardening is a full-time job. It is never ending, but quite rewarding. There is something to learn every day with this hobby. It is good for the soul and keep your mind and hands busy.

You were told correctly not to spray your tomato seedlings at a young age. If you do make sure that it is very dilute. Most people wait until plant out and just before rains start. When the plants are large enough to plant out, they can handle the treatment much better. I had you do this because these starts came from older plants which most likely already were carrying some pathogens of some sort. I just did not want any disease to get a stronghold before your cuttings had a chance to grow.

#3 Does appear to have little nubs forming some roots. While it is quite wilted hopefully it will perk up for you. I would not place it in water, just leave it be. I would keep it shaded until the leaves perk up, but do not keep it in the dark. Just use something to shade it from your lights.

I forgot to answer your question about using the copper spray again. I would wait at least another 2 weeks on that unless you see some problems. Your plants are not actively growing and you are not experiencing any rain in your living room. I would read your bottle to see what it says about using stored product before using it again. It may well be better to just make new next time.

Well you certainly are ambitious. Already you are jumping into grafting. We have a couple of people on the forum that do a lot of grafting, B4red and Delirium. You should read some of their threads on the subject. I find it fascinating. I myself just have no reason to do it. AKMark has a great thread on his tomatoes that he grows in his greenhouse. There is a lot of stuff here that is so very interesting.

[murihikukid]

Patti..There is a terrible amount of reading at Tomatoville but I have a small black fly type insect flying around my freezer...only a few but they land on my laterals so I am wondering if they are doing any harm and is there a spray that I can use specificly for these that will not harm my laterals..I do have a couple of leaves with black tips....By the way I went to see my Doctor today and he is from Wisconsin..I must ask him what part when I visit him next ...
#3 does look weak but I presume it could take a few days to get over loosing its lower soil and having it replaced ......Its only 5 days since I applied the Tom a Rite ....I am pinning my hopes on Seasol when a lite solution is applied in 5 days time....
Keeping the laterals in shade without keeping it in the dark ...I am unsure how I can do that when the tubes are directly above and I can only adjust the height I could block (with a piece of alloy plastic) the light on one side of the freezer and move the pottles under the block ....But this I think would be similar to switching 2 or 4 tubes off ... there are 4 holders with 2 tubes in each...Regards Ron

[MissS]

I hope that your Doctors visit went well and that he found you to be in perfect health.

I suspect that your little black flies are 'fungus gnats'. They can cause problems for the roots of your new plants. They like to feed on organic matter and live in your soil. I use water made with Bt-israelensis (Bt-i). The name of the product that I use is Mosquito Dunks or EcoSmart Mosquito Control Tablets. This is an organic control method that contains a bacteria lethal to the gnats. Perhaps you have something similar over there. If not you can also try putting some sand on the top of your growing medium to cover the organic matter. In addition you could try adding some hydrogen peroxide to your water when you water the plants. Use the search function here on the forum for "fungus gnats", there a a few very good threads on this topic. (Yes, more reading....)

To keep your lateral partially shaded, put it in the corner of your grow box and find something to put a white piece of paper over the top of it without touching the leaves. Your plastic in the corner sounds good. I know that you will think of something. You do seem to be quite clever.

Best Wishes,

Patti

[murihikukid]

Patti..I think the "Gnats" are coming from banana skins I left lying around...I must be more Tidy...
OK this is where I am at .....I think my two photos of the freezer will show what I have done..All my cuttings are basicly shaded...
Now to three cuttings ..Two photos taken from different sides...
#1 and 1a is the one that fell over ..Its not looking well ? If it does not improve I think that maybe removing it and blowing all the soil from it and putting it in a water/seasol solution for a few days ...but of course that could mean certain death..
#2 and 2a....This is the one with the fruit buds on it..(I finally saw them) ..The leaves look too yellow for my liking plus they have the Black tip on the end branch leaves (circled) and this is the same black tip on fully grown plants in my greenhouse and this actually spread from branch too branch there...
#3 and 3a....Another that does not look right with yellow leaves ..If I recall the end leaves were cut off either because they were dead or were affected with the same black tip as #2.....

Everything else is looking reasonably healthy ...the 3 cuttings planted March 31st are still looking good and of course its 15 days since the planting of the second lot....

I do know I will have at least 4 Tasty Tom plants and hopefully more that will keep me working into Winter.... providing the proper environment for success...
As usual I look forward to your comments on what next...Later I will post the three cuttings planted March 6th ..They are looking great although not looking like tomato plants but they may need pruned...

Regards Ron