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Old March 2, 2018   #16
mensplace
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I would be very surprised if you could not find vendors in your own state or region.

Too, you may well find local associations or others with shared interests.

Fall is actually best for planting. Up there it is probably not too late to meet someone and learn to graft. Most county agents have limited experience.

http://www.newenglandapples.org/tag/...irloom-apples/

Check in your state on the web. I found very many links re New England. Up there you can grow apples that would never do well here. Never had luck with apples grown for a year or two far away...different conditions, soils, and micro-organisms. The hair-like roots of dwarfs almost always died in our heavy clay.

Last edited by mensplace; March 2, 2018 at 07:36 PM.
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Old March 2, 2018   #17
NewWestGardener
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I would like to grow more fruit trees as well, I have room to squeeze in 6 more dwarf trees, but no idea what varieties. I would like to hear more if people could comment on some of their favorites. Apples, pears, cherries, etc.

Has anyone tried Flavor Queen plumcot?
http://www.davewilson.com/product-in...rspecific-plum

The longer harvest season looks attractive. Plums grow super easily in my yard.
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Old March 2, 2018   #18
mensplace
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I would like to grow more fruit trees as well, I have room to squeeze in 6 more dwarf trees, but no idea what varieties. I would like to hear more if people could comment on some of their favorites. Apples, pears, cherries, etc.

Has anyone tried Flavor Queen plumcot?
http://www.davewilson.com/product-in...rspecific-plum

The longer harvest season looks attractive. Plums grow super easily in my yard.
You should be in heaven for fruit growing. Have you called a county agent for a local brochure? Read the previous posts for considerations.
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Old March 2, 2018   #19
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... If you have clay, do NOT get trees on dwarf rootstock. ...
Mensplace, can you explain the problem with clay and dwarf apple rootstock?

Nan
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Old March 3, 2018   #20
mensplace
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Several issues with dwarf rootstock. They tend to have very fibrous roots that cannot go deeply into the compaction found in most clay soils. Even in good soil most need support both to keep them from falling over and to support the branches.

In being a very fibrous root systems they can get neither the oxygen nor the nutrients they need and they cannot penetrate the hardpan to go deeply so they often die early.

They are also subject to insects and disease in the root system when they weaken.

There may be newer dwarfing rootstocks that resist some of these issues, but in being dwarfs, the limbs are thinner and more prone to breakage.

In clay, I always had more success with 106 and 111, but, there may be newcomers. Both Treco and Rutgers could help with new info. Even with semi-dwarfs the proper rootstock is important with clay.
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Old March 3, 2018   #21
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nan, dwarf rootstock does not anchor well. clay will make for a poorly rooted and anchored tree. we actually are growing ours on a trellis wire to keep them from leaning. each one has a stake next to it, too. we have no clay in that area to deal with. we live on shale. My dear husband couldn't have a real pond if his life depended on it (and he builds ponds for other people). dwarf's are notorious for blowing over in a big storm.
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Old March 3, 2018   #22
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No idea if there are royalty surcharges. I never asked. I ordered and paid and then they shipped it to us. order now for next year. when we ordered we ordered dwarf stock with "spray-less" scion cultivars.. Williams pride, crimson crisp, goldrush... which is my favorite yellow apple but very late in the season to ripen, red free, pristine.... etc. You can order pretty much anything Starks sells... I think. liberty, freedom... my favorite red apple, gingergold... and MANY more are "spray-less" tree. they produce more/better quality if they are sprayed but still produce without spray.
Sprayless scions fit what I am looking for, so Libery was a possibility, otherwise fireblight has become a problem in recent years. That is when the Geneva stock became more important. The demand for G stock is sky high, and the originator of it has very few cultivars of it available now.
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Old March 3, 2018   #23
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There are many people who have smaller nurseries. It is good to get apples suited to your region. have you ever consider grafting some for later? It is simple...and fun. Too it really opens your choices with over 4000 varieties. Too, be sure to get at least one good pollinator such as golden delicious. Scion wood is readily available. If you have clay, do NOT get trees on dwarf rootstock. Match your rootstock to your type of soil. Too, do not get full sized tree unless you have a lot of space and many years to wait. That leaves those among the medium rootstocks as the best all around size. Consider your cold winters. You don't want blossoms when it is still freezing. Do not fertilize the first year or too much later. Too much fertilizer and you will not get fruit.
Too much too soon and you can burn the roots. Low nitrogen. Consider your anticipated use and harvest date. Some of the old varieties are no longer used for good reason, they were like biting into wood with no flavor. Others are wonderful. If you anticipate cider making, that opens up a whole new game. Do you want fresh eating, canning, cooking, drying, or cider? Space? Soil type? Drainage? Bees?
Yes, we tried grafting 25 pears, none took. Willing to try again.

I have lots of space IF we continue clearing the less valuable trees for firewood. Primary use will be fresh eating, cooking and storage. Oh and drying. I know my boys are getting old enough to be interested in hard cider, lol.

I grew up with many "wild" apple trees of unnamed varieties but I knew every tree. When it ripened, the flavor, etc. A ready snack when playing out side.

10--20 varieties sprinkled around the farm would be good, but makes sparying and management more difficult. sigh. Those old types thrived despite lack of care. GUess depends on the disease pressure in a specific areal
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Old March 3, 2018   #24
Black Krim
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Originally Posted by mensplace View Post
I would be very surprised if you could not find vendors in your own state or region.

Too, you may well find local associations or others with shared interests.

Fall is actually best for planting. Up there it is probably not too late to meet someone and learn to graft. Most county agents have limited experience.

http://www.newenglandapples.org/tag/...irloom-apples/

Check in your state on the web. I found very many links re New England. Up there you can grow apples that would never do well here. Never had luck with apples grown for a year or two far away...different conditions, soils, and micro-organisms. The hair-like roots of dwarfs almost always died in our heavy clay.

yes, each reagion has its demands that need to be met to have a successful stand, or orchard. I cannot grow blueberries, but all the wild do well. THat is probably me.

I do know my terrain pretty well, and where the water drains, leaving drier areas or wetter areas. That sort of thing. THere is a New England collection of apple trees call the Davenport COllection about 1 hour away. THat orchard was hit with fireblight so scions are not offered for sale anymore but I have the original list of trees so there are a huge number of varieties that will do well here climate wise

The fireblight though is a new issue and most cant handle it.
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Old March 3, 2018   #25
Black Krim
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Originally Posted by NewWestGardener View Post
I would like to grow more fruit trees as well, I have room to squeeze in 6 more dwarf trees, but no idea what varieties. I would like to hear more if people could comment on some of their favorites. Apples, pears, cherries, etc.

Has anyone tried Flavor Queen plumcot?
http://www.davewilson.com/product-in...rspecific-plum

The longer harvest season looks attractive. Plums grow super easily in my yard.
If I remember my geography, you are in the pacific northwest, aka PNW.

Rootstock that does well here,performs differently in Washington state studies, specifically the Geneva rootstock. The climate is great for growing apples, but I am betting the varieties favored there are different than here. Commercial growers have a different need so as home growers we have different requirements. Like, a lower producing tree or a biennial is ok for me.

I like to look at Orange Pippin website; Fedco and others for information. Most catalogs that fous on backyard customers do NOT have the pros and cons of each vatieiy--just the sales pitch.
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Old March 3, 2018   #26
Black Krim
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Mensplace, can you explain the problem with clay and dwarf apple rootstock?
Nan
Nan, to add to Mensplace's ver good information, every rootstock has specific characteristics to help commercial growers select the best option for there growing conditions.

Lots on utube by nurserymen and universitys. One I watched yesterday showed about 10 different rootstock for peach, cherry and apple and the roots are NOT like a standard tree. Only one dwarf rootstock had a good central root. All others have a thin fine mat of roots so staking is a MUST.

The semi-dwarf stock is better and some do not need staking, or might need staking in its early years, but not later.

I am still searching the web for a list I once saw that provided details like staking or not staking, leaning or other quirks.

One nuseryman suggests building a raised bed to plant dwarf in areas that are clay. Because IMO the rootsystem is only a few inches deep.

Hope that helps.
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Old March 3, 2018   #27
Black Krim
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For those interested, I watched a utube where a professional nursery man showed that any rootstock can be keep small with pruning, and in his opionion this allowed for selection of rootstock for other issues rather than height. BUT regular pruning would be required.

Nan, Dwarfs look nice in a whiskey barrel, with a stake, IMO.
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Old March 3, 2018   #28
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I once saw over 200 trees destroyed by one insect in a month. Just read about a field trial of a Geneva stock where there was heavy snapping at the graft due to storm. Have seen OLD trees snap at the graft due to rootstock/scion incompatibility. Even back in the 1700's trees were sprayed. I have yet to see a totally spray free approach not have some problems over time.
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Old March 3, 2018   #29
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Care to list out 1-5 ?

The Cummings site has decreased its offerings significantly, or the site removes varieties with zero stock.
The list was alphabetical, and all over the USA - so here are some listed in the New England area-ish: I omitted a few with just berry bushes offered. But of course may have changed (if still existing..) Google may get you more about these, or if not try yellow pages for local ones.

Bigelow Nurseries Northboro Mass
Congdon and Weller Nursery Inc North Collins NY
Country Heritage Nursery Hartford Michigan * a lot of large nurseries listed in MI at the time
John Gordon Nursery North Tonawanda NY
Kelly Nurseries Dansville NY
Lennilia Farm Nursery Alburtis PA
Henry Leuthardt Nurseries, Long Island NY
Miller Nursery Canandaigua NY
New York State Fruit Testing, Geneva NY (this described as a nonprofit co-op nursery)
Pikes Peak Nurseries Penn Run PA
FW Schumacher Co. Sandwich MA (tree seed by the pound, I bought from them)
St. Lawrence Nurseries, Potsdam NY
Tripple Brook Farm Southampton MA
Wafler Nurseries Wolcott NY
Weston Nurseries Hopkinton MA
M Worley Nursery York Springs PA

My apple trees came from New Brunswick - Corn hill nursery and at the time offered Antanovka and Beautiful Arcade rootstocks as well as dwarf. Mine were on BA so one day my 'apple bushes' could even produce edible apples. That is iff the snowshoe hare goes into deep decline...
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Old March 3, 2018   #30
Nan_PA_6b
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...dwarf's are notorious for blowing over in a big storm.
That explains what happened to my semi-dwarf apple tree this summer. It fell over after a very windy storm. It was about 16 years old, growing in pure clay. It's now held up with ropes, wires and a board, with about 75% of its branches cut away. Maybe we should put up more support boards & expect them to be permanent.

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