Soilbuilding in the developing world - Page 2

dice · January 30, 2011

Quote:

Originally Posted by dice

The composting process tends toward neutral
pH, whether the inputs are acidic or alkaline, so that is one
way to use something like seed meal or post-oil-extraction
seed cake without making significant changes to the soil pH.

Apparently rice paddy flooding tends toward neutral pH, too:

Effect of flooding for a rice crop on soil phosphorus and soil pH:
http://msucares.com/crops/college/07...-with-rice.pdf
(Acidic and alkaline inputs via the mulch can be ignored for any
effect on pH for the subsequent rice crop. No need to compost
neem seed cake or any other post-oil-extraction seed cake
before adding it to a mulch on a crop in rotation with rice. I am
assuming that adding inorganic P2O5 is not practical in your
application, so adding phosphorous would happen via the mulch
or manure.)

A document on rice in rotation with sugarcane in the Florida
Everglades ( http://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/ag123 ) mentioned that
the rice crop is usually fertilized with calcium silicate slag
(from some industrial process would be my guess) to raise
silicon levels that boost both rice and sugarcane production.
This would be a positive side-effect of spreading granite dust
(or other rock dust) on top of your mulch when growing
vegetables or other crops in rotation with rice. (It does not
need to be composted first, although adding it to compost
will help the compost itself by raising earthworm populations
in the compost.)

maupin · March 14, 2011

After a lot of helpful feedback, here is our plan,

We have a small biogas digester. We are composting the slurry waste product from the digester with rice straw and banana leaves. This should add plant fibers back into the soil to address our primary concern of compaction.

Thanks to all.

dice · March 16, 2011

Do you grow okra in the off-season? Reputed to have fairly
substantial root systems (would help with soil compaction),
good producer, grows in some poor soils, likes hot weather, etc.

Most of the OP okras are spiny (fine little thorns, so you need
to wear gloves and long sleeves to harvest and work in the
rows).

Here is a link to a historical document on root systems in
various food crops:
http://www.soilandhealth.org/01aglib...010137toc.html

(Check out the chapter on okra, etc.)

maupin · March 27, 2011

We grow a buttload of okra, trouble is, it is hard to sell. White radish is our soil compaction weapon. We can sell that!

Other problem is that not only do we not have any mechanized equipment, we don't have a bull and a plow, meaning that the fields are sod busted by hoe and strong backed men. Accordingly, our tilth is rather shallow.

But Dice, we will still need our rock powders.

dice · March 28, 2011

Maybe you could provide samples of okra already cooked:

Deep South Okra Gumbo [bacon and okra]

3 slices bacon
4 cups diced okra
1 onion, finely chopped
1 clove garlic, finely chopped
1/2 cup green pepper, diced
[This ingredient is a bit exotic for SE Asia; maybe find
some local substitute.]
6 pimento-stuffed olives, sliced
1 tsp. salt
1/4 tsp. pepper
3 tomatoes, peeled and finely chopped
Hot cooked rice
Chopped fresh parsley

Cook bacon until crisp; drain, reserving bacon
drippings. Crumble bacon, and set aside. Cook okra, onion,
garlic, green pepper, olives, salt, and pepper in reserved
bacon drippings until lightly browned. Stir in tomatoes, and
cook over low heat about 30 minutes. Serve gumbo over rice,
and garnish with crumbled bacon and parsley.

Makes about 6 servings.

Feel free to double the pepper. Some mild chiles
in there may enhance it, too.

("Only one large spoonful per customer! Back, back you street
urchins, make way for the paying customers!")

t-ham · May 9, 2011

Maupin,

Just a question, I know I'm late to the thread. Do you do any fish farming on any scale? You said the ditches were a meter deep. I don't know how long they stay viable during the dry season but could you raise any fast growing fish or crustaceans before they dry out? I don't even have a particular species in mind, I'm just wondering. The excrement may be minimal but it would leach in with the compost(which may also partially feed catfish or crayfish) and the trimmings(innards, carcasses, and shells) from processing the meat might be good additives to the compost.

dice · May 9, 2011

If you look under Chemical Composition on this page, you can
find the types of rock that will be high in silicon. These are
what to look for when looking for quarry dust to add to your
compost, mulch, or manures.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Igneous_rock

(Most gumbos use a quart or two of water or stock, depending
on how much you are making. I noticed that recipe posted
above omitted it.)

t-ham · May 9, 2011

Dice,

I received your post(#22) as an email notification but it doesn't really apply to my post. I'm sure you were responding to an earlier comment but since this happened you can help out the new guy.

My question is this;
When you post a comment on a thread here in bucolic T'ville, does it automatically get emailed to the originator of the previous comment?

dice · May 9, 2011

Quote:

Originally Posted by t-ham

My question is this;
When you post a comment on a thread here in bucolic T'ville, does it automatically get emailed to the originator of the previous comment?

I have no idea. I turned that feature (email notification of new
posts to threads where I have posted) off when I first registered
here.

If you click on My Profile at the top of a page, then "Options"
from the menu on the left, you get a page of user options
that includes "Default Thread Subscription Mode". I have
"No email notification" there. (I log in often enough that
I notice within a few days if there are replies to a thread
where I have posted.)

Yes, I was replying to earlier posts, for the next time the original
poster logged in. I posted the link to the document that
mentioned silicon supplementation to boost rice yields and
I recalled the long ago research (1930s) that found higher
earthworm populations in compost to which granite dust had
been added.

I also posted the "stockless" gumbo recipe in reply to his
comment about having trouble moving okra in SE Asia.
("Hey, just eat it if necessary. Prepared well, it makes a fine
soup/stew ingredient.")

dice · March 28, 2012

[soil compaction]
It looks like peas would help with this, too:
http://www.soilandhealth.org/01aglib...10137ch19.html

You could probably plant a pea that sprouts early, some early maturing
snow pea variety, in rotation between draining of the fields and later summer crops, and still get the benefit of the extensive root system that
peas produce. The article mentioned an experiment where scientists
crossed a dwarf pea with a taller pea, and testing found that the dwarf
peas produced an extensive root system comparable to the taller peas,
even though the above ground plants were much smaller. It also
mentioned an experiment that found that "field peas" (like Austrian winter
peas, maybe) produced a smaller root system for the size of the plant
than the kinds of peas that are planted for human consumption.

If you could find an OP pea that survived in their conditions growing on
paddy land in Thailand, they could let part of the production of each
crop mature to dry pods and save their own seeds.

March 16, 2011	#18
dice Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: PNW Posts: 4,743	Do you grow okra in the off-season? Reputed to have fairly substantial root systems (would help with soil compaction), good producer, grows in some poor soils, likes hot weather, etc. Most of the OP okras are spiny (fine little thorns, so you need to wear gloves and long sleeves to harvest and work in the rows). Here is a link to a historical document on root systems in various food crops: http://www.soilandhealth.org/01aglib...010137toc.html (Check out the chapter on okra, etc.) __________________ -- alias

March 28, 2011	#20
dice Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: PNW Posts: 4,743	Maybe you could provide samples of okra already cooked: Deep South Okra Gumbo [bacon and okra] 3 slices bacon 4 cups diced okra 1 onion, finely chopped 1 clove garlic, finely chopped 1/2 cup green pepper, diced [This ingredient is a bit exotic for SE Asia; maybe find some local substitute.] 6 pimento-stuffed olives, sliced 1 tsp. salt 1/4 tsp. pepper 3 tomatoes, peeled and finely chopped Hot cooked rice Chopped fresh parsley Cook bacon until crisp; drain, reserving bacon drippings. Crumble bacon, and set aside. Cook okra, onion, garlic, green pepper, olives, salt, and pepper in reserved bacon drippings until lightly browned. Stir in tomatoes, and cook over low heat about 30 minutes. Serve gumbo over rice, and garnish with crumbled bacon and parsley. Makes about 6 servings. Feel free to double the pepper. Some mild chiles in there may enhance it, too. ("Only one large spoonful per customer! Back, back you street urchins, make way for the paying customers!") __________________ -- alias Last edited by dice; March 28, 2011 at 04:57 PM. Reason: how much green pepper

March 28, 2012	#25
dice Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: PNW Posts: 4,743	[soil compaction] It looks like peas would help with this, too: http://www.soilandhealth.org/01aglib...10137ch19.html You could probably plant a pea that sprouts early, some early maturing snow pea variety, in rotation between draining of the fields and later summer crops, and still get the benefit of the extensive root system that peas produce. The article mentioned an experiment where scientists crossed a dwarf pea with a taller pea, and testing found that the dwarf peas produced an extensive root system comparable to the taller peas, even though the above ground plants were much smaller. It also mentioned an experiment that found that "field peas" (like Austrian winter peas, maybe) produced a smaller root system for the size of the plant than the kinds of peas that are planted for human consumption. If you could find an OP pea that survived in their conditions growing on paddy land in Thailand, they could let part of the production of each crop mature to dry pods and save their own seeds. __________________ -- alias

March 14, 2011	#17
maupin Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Northern Thailand Posts: 77	After a lot of helpful feedback, here is our plan, We have a small biogas digester. We are composting the slurry waste product from the digester with rice straw and banana leaves. This should add plant fibers back into the soil to address our primary concern of compaction. Thanks to all.

March 27, 2011	#19
maupin Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Northern Thailand Posts: 77	We grow a buttload of okra, trouble is, it is hard to sell. White radish is our soil compaction weapon. We can sell that! Other problem is that not only do we not have any mechanized equipment, we don't have a bull and a plow, meaning that the fields are sod busted by hoe and strong backed men. Accordingly, our tilth is rather shallow. But Dice, we will still need our rock powders.

May 9, 2011	#21
t-ham Tomatovillian™ Join Date: May 2011 Location: rockland county, ny, usa Posts: 36	Maupin, Just a question, I know I'm late to the thread. Do you do any fish farming on any scale? You said the ditches were a meter deep. I don't know how long they stay viable during the dry season but could you raise any fast growing fish or crustaceans before they dry out? I don't even have a particular species in mind, I'm just wondering. The excrement may be minimal but it would leach in with the compost(which may also partially feed catfish or crayfish) and the trimmings(innards, carcasses, and shells) from processing the meat might be good additives to the compost.