Marianna's Heirloom Seeds...

[gixxerific]

Originally Posted by beefyboy

I dont know who the lobbyist is for Marianna's seeds who states having 10 yr. old seed being sold with 2012 dated on it, but I would hardly think that company would be around very long. I mean seriously, get real.

I am real, and I am not a lobbyist for anyone i also did NOT say that Marianna had 10 year old seed, etc, etc. Just sayin it is possible there are shady people out there. That is real.

[remy]

Sherry,
Yes, different seeds have different percents. Seed saved no matter how perfectly will not have all viable seeds. Some plants have a normally high rate as is with most veggies, and some are low. This is especially true with some flower seeds.
Tomato seeds need to be 75%. I make sure mine are above 85%. I prefer 90 or above. One time, I had Cherokee Green at 75% and offered them as an extra bonus upon request. Or one time I had a pepper variety that only had a 60% germ rate, Federal rate is 55% (I think that is really low, but peppers are sometimes finickier than other seed,) so I gave a lot of extra seed with instructions to over sow to compensate.

Kath,
No, seed does not have to be produced the year it is sold. Most companies are reputable. There's a few bad ones out there. Reimer's comes to mind with many complaints of low/no germination. They have tons of complaints on The Garden Watchdog. The recommended list of vendors here is great, but it is limited to companies that specialize in tomatoes and maybe other vegetables.
I recommend that people check out The Garden Watchdog before ordering from other companies.
http://davesgarden.com/products/gwd/
Remy

[carolyn137]

Originally Posted by remy

To clear up the pack date stuff~
It is required by law to have a pack date on seed packets.
The pack date is suppose to be an assurance to the consumer that testing was done for that year that the seed passes federal germination standards. Places can put the actual % on the pack too. I do not, but I make sure my seed is above the standard so as not to run into too many problems even if someone's seed starting practices are not too good.
The pack date also ensures that the seller is not held responsible when a customer complains a year or longer after purchasing the seed. Yes, most seed stored properly will be good for a few subsequent year's sowing. Not everyone stores things properly though.
Remy

http://www.google.com/#sclient=psy-a...iw=757&bih=403

I mentioned in an earlier post that there were germination standards for different kinds of seed and also pointed out that those standards are rarely checked for the smaller seed companies.

In the Geneeral Google link above you might want to check the goverment site as well as the Victory seed site.

And I mention Mike Dunton's Victory Seed site b'c I know two years ago he and his wife and two of his kids came East to attend a conference in Geneva , NY all about seed packing regulations.

Lucky for me after that they drove East towards me on an historical tour stopping at many Fort sites along the Mohawk River then ending up at the Fort in Lake George and then finally Fort Ticonderoga.

They then drove south to my home and and we had several hourts of great talk before they had to leave to drive to the Albany Airpot for the flights back to Oregon.

Remy, Geneva isn't that far from you. Did you attend the same Conference by any chance?

[kath]

Thanks again, Remy- Dave's Garden is indeed a good place to check if unsure when considering a new vendor. My bad lettuce seed was from a place I've ordered from for 25+ years without many problems until the past 3 or 4 years and I had bad packs of peppers and beets from them, too. I should take the time to complain at the time but often haven't bothered. It's not so much the $ as the wasted garden space and sometimes the lack of continuity in succession with a crop that is so annoying when you sow seeds that just never come up or that germinate poorly and leave you with a spotty row that you're not sure to just leave or rip out and try again. I've also had miserable results with watermelon, peas, sweet corn, spinach, onions and tomatoes before from various other vendors. I've been gardening since the 70's and every year I usually plant several varieties of a crop to trial and the problem has always been with just one pack, so I know it's the seed.

You're right that most companies are reputable, and when I think of all the packs of seed I've bought in all these years, most have been just fine. Maybe it's that only recently have there been any problems that it bothers me so much. That and the fact that now you pay so much for some of the packets! I think this year not getting a single plant after 3 sowings and using the entire new packet of tomato seeds was the proverbial straw... Ok, rant over.

[remy]

Carolyn,
No, I know they have conferences in Geneva, but I've never been. Well I've been to Geneva many a time just not the conferences. I've also been to Lake George many times. I went there ever year as a kid!
It is so nice that Mike stopped to see you. Maybe if Hilde is in the US next summer, we can make a road trip to visit like we wanted to a couple years ago.
You're right about them probably not checking small companies, but I would like to think most small companies care about what they are selling and do the right thing. Then again rip off artists come in all sizes.

Kath,
You should complain. I know I want to know if someone had a problem. Most good places will try to fix the problem one way or another. Of course sometimes companies change owners and things go downhill.
Sometimes weird things can happen with germination. For example, I started Red and White Fall beans last year with all my other beans, none germinated. I probably started oh about 10 seeds. This year, being the eternal optimist sowed them again, and I over sowed. Well, every single one of them came up!
No seeds out a whole pack of tomatoes in 3 sowings though is bad.
Remy

[Sherry_AK]

Thanks, Remy. This is interesting information.

Sherry

[poypoyking]

I know that at Marianna's all seeds are fresh and none are over 2 years old. Also, when growing that many tomatoes sometimes an off one may occur (we are all guilty of this). It does say right on her page money back if not satisfied and to allow 4-6 weeks for delivery in the off season. This past spring I ordered Dixie Wine, Cherokee Green, Moldovan Green, and Everett's Rusty Oxheart from Marianna's. Granted it was only 4 varieties but everything came up true to type. Dixie Wine and Cherokee Green made it on to my must grow list. Give her a little time, she will make it right.

[greyghost]

I've always had great results with her seeds. I'm hoping everyone's issues
get worked out-I know it's a very busy and stressful season for most seed vendors right now. Darlene

[gixxerific]

Originally Posted by poypoyking

I know that at Marianna's all seeds are fresh and none are over 2 years old. Also, when growing that many tomatoes sometimes an off one may occur (we are all guilty of this). It does say right on her page money back if not satisfied and to allow 4-6 weeks for delivery in the off season. This past spring I ordered Dixie Wine, Cherokee Green, Moldovan Green, and Everett's Rusty Oxheart from Marianna's. Granted it was only 4 varieties but everything came up true to type. Dixie Wine and Cherokee Green made it on to my must grow list. Give her a little time, she will make it right.

I was coming in here to say that same thing almost word for word. I am in contact with Mariseeds. I can gurantee her seeds are fresh and as Poypoy said less that two years old. We are in the off season and she has been very busy, you wouldn't belive the amount of seeding that is going on. Yes, seeding which means fresh seed. There will be some very cool new variety's and new twist to the site as well.

If anyone is having problems still you can PM me and I will personally see to it that is get's resolved one way or another.

As far as removing Marianna's site from your seed vendors list, that is a bad move. I understand you have a beef with a certain indvidual she is working with. But keep that beef with him, you are harming the business of someone to get back at someone else. To be quite honest business picked up considerably after this thread surfaced. Lets move forward not backwards, that gets you nowhere. It will only hurt the tomato world and what is possible if we are seperate. Just think of what we could do if we put all this behind us an joined togther as one.

You can ban me now since I am in cohorts with the enemy or we can move on and I can be one of the best contributors on this forum.

Thanks for you time

God Bless

Dono

[kurt]

All well and good accolades for the site.But when you call as I have and get a answering machine(and a computer generated)not a personel identifying response.The site it seems will take your money but judging from posts no product.Now a third party input and response.Nobody is that busy not to answer the phone or respond to emails.It is not good business practice and I myself am wary of it.

[Sun City Linda]

I think all the family seed vendors deal with similar problems, seasonal demands and personal issues. Its called life. Vendors who ignore their customers too often will pay the price. TV Management has every right to remove Mariseed or any other vendor they chose from the list of approved vendors. Those who dont agree are free to post elsewhere, or start their own forum.

[Redbaron]

Originally Posted by gixxerific

I am in cohorts with the enemy

Thanks for you time

God Bless

Dono

I don't think it is so much a question of "enemy" as much as it is simply removing a recommendation. If the customer service side of the business improves in future years I am sure Marianna will be back on the "A" list.

Park seeds is a well respected old and large company that probably has filled literally millions of seed orders. Yet they are not on the recommended list either. And quite frankly they are going through turmoil too. Gleckler's went completely out of business and is now started back up again and is recommended. So large or small, these things happen.

Just figure out a way to do better next and future years. Sometimes nothing more than a disclaimer stating all orders will be shipped later such as, "We are processing next years seed right now so all orders will be delayed until such and such a date" is enough. Some companies simply put "sold out" or "coming soon" and won't take any orders on that variety at all. (even though everyone knows they probably have a few seeds lying around)

I haven't ever ordered from Marianna before, but by the looks of the posts it seems more of an organizational and business practices issue than anything else.

[Sherry_AK]

Originally Posted by gixxerific

If anyone is having problems still you can PM me and I will personally see to it that is get's resolved one way or another.

To be quite honest business picked up considerably after this thread surfaced.

Dono

Dono - Could you pls tell me what is your connection to this business that puts you in a position of being able to ensure problems are resolved? I'm just curious.

I suspect it's quite likely that the uptick in business is more closely related to the fact that there are a good number of posts on another gardening forum which advertise this business, rave about new releases, etc. So many in fact, I'm not sure why it's allowed. Could that be it?

I have no particular beef with Marianna's other than the only time I ordered from her (years ago) she substituted a variety not appropriate for my growing conditions. And once I requested a sample from her via SSE yearbook which was clearly not the correct variety. I e-mailed her, not asking for anything, but just to let her know. I received no response at all.

Sherry

[Fusion_power]

First a general statement that I have ordered at least 100 varieties of tomatoes from Marianne over the last 10 years and of those, I have had 3 that were not true to type. Carol Chyko's Paste was one I had this year that turned out to be a mix of red, orange, and varying size fruits. Am I worried about 3 out of 100? no, I will just mention it to her the next time I order and she will send me replacements or an acceptable alternate.

Now to address the issue that is far more important to me. There are three dates that are needed on a pack of seed.

1. (grown in 2012) The year seed are grown is significant because it tells you how old the seed are and therefore how long they are likely to take to germinate. As a general rule, 1 year old tomato seed germinate in less than 10 days, 5 year old seed in 10 to 14 days, 10 year old seed in 12 to 21 days. I have grown 18 year old seed with up to 30 percent germination though the seedlings were weak and took a lot of babying to get healthy transplants. I also like to see the place of origin on the seed because that tells me the climate which can affect seed vigor.

2. (Germinated tested on 2012/08/14) The germination test date tells when the seed were verified for viability. It is an absolutely critical date in my opinion for commercially sourced seed. The percentage germination should closely match my results. The only special note I would put on this is that some seed such as beans can have very good germination test results but very poor results when planted in my garden under springtime conditions. Use the germination test result as a standard, but it is NOT a magic bullet.

3. (Date Packed) this date is important for multiple reasons, but it is useful not for what it tells you on fresh seed, but rather what it tells you if you store seed and attempt to grow them in future seasons. The packed by date prevents old seed from being sold at retail. The seed buyer can look at a pack and tell immediately if it contains old seed. This date also tells you how old seed are if you have stored them. As an example, if i buy lettuce seed that were packed in 2011 and attempt to plant them in my 2013 garden, I anticipate that germination will have dropped by roughly 50%. Onion seed are even worse, they rarely germinate if over 2 years old.

So how many companies label their seed with all three dates? None to my knowledge.

DarJones