Am I doomed to a puny crop this year? Potting soil issue - Page 3

efisakov · July 23, 2013

I was researching fusarium wilt and stumble into kelp. I could not stop reading about it. Now I am searching for the place to purchase it and trying to figure out what is better kelp meal or liquid.

NarnianGarden · July 23, 2013

Quote:

Originally Posted by ubergoober

I think feeding the plants is integral. I have always grown most of my tomatoes in containers and they really do need to be fertilized often. I am trying the Epsom salt this year with good success. It is still early in the season for me and most of my plants are nice and healthy despite some really bad weather issues. I use fish emulsion as well as an organic general fertilizer.

This is the wisdom often given. But I have also seen advice that says otherwise - not to overfeed. How much is enough, how much is too much...?

I have some chickenpoop and seaweed stuff that I added to the soil when I planted my nurselings, and occasionally I have given them some animal based (bone meal etc...) organic fertilizer. Now that I have fruits forming, should I give them something every week - or is the every three weeks schedule enough?
So confusing...

cythaenopsis · July 23, 2013

^ The climate/environment, the variety, the stage of plant growth, and indications of the leaves will have an influence on what kind of fertilizer to apply and its frequency. I wish there was a chart for this! As such, it seems like each gardener is destined to "find their own way". You take whatever advice you can find, but ultimately you'll happen upon what works best for your situation (as long as you're conscientious to take note of what you do and the results). Also keep in mind that (based on what I've read) you can do everything the same one year to the next and still get different results.

The environment is key. For instance, in my case I'd been seeing some slight leaf curl with my Black Krim, but the intense heatwave from last week incurred some serious curling, to the point where some leaves are completely rolled. I lost some blossoms, too. About 6 blossoms had set and are showing thickening stems (which is a good thing), but after a week they've shown no progress. The blossoms may have aborted but can't easily fall off. Didn't matter what I'd have done, the heat was just too intense for too long.

cythaenopsis · August 4, 2013

One other problem I think I brought upon myself was the fear of over-fertilizing. My thought would fall back on nature, that in the wild tomato plants will be dealing with just basic soil and make do with what comes naturally. Adding fertilizer isn't natural, but it's a step towards optimization of nutrient availability. So, better to do less fertilizer than too much, right?

Well, container growing seems to be a very different story. It's not a natural situation for a tomato plant to be growing in an isolated container. Thus, frequent fertilizing is essential. Next time, I'd rather do too much and then be faced with backing it off rather than doing too little. There is that middle ground of not having too much but having "just enough" not to show nutrient deficiency in the leaves. I think it my case I had just enough for a healthy plant but not enough to promote lots of fruit growth. I increased fertilization modestly at plant maturity, but I don't think it has been enough as I suffered yet another round of blossom drop... as for early August that's almost a death sentence on any potential fruit beyond what is currently growing to harvest by the end of the season.

efisakov · August 4, 2013

It is not true. I have tomatoes blooming in September, setting fruits and collecting my latest in October or even November. Enough to say, my Carbon plant last year survived hurricane Sandy (October 31) and had few green tomatoes growing until I picked them a bit pink. Do not get discouraged. Keep on going, girl. You have at least 2 more months, as long as your plants are healthy.

cythaenopsis · August 4, 2013

^ Thanks for the encouragement, Ella.

There is the consideration of the shifting seasons we've witnessed with global warming effects. So... even late October may still permit plants to keep going outdoors.

I'm going to keep at it, but I've definitely suffered a big dent in my resolve. But I guess it's something I need to work on anyway, being able to dispense with regret--learn and move on.

TexasAngel · August 4, 2013

Well they just kept declining so I pulled them. I want to add soil amendments then get a couple of plants for a fall crop. I found the Black Krim at an HEB. You never know what will turn up at those stores. I think every store is different.

Last night I stopped in at an HEB Plus. They had Celebrity, BHN 444 and Solar Flare.

I'm going back to the other HEB to see what they have set out. I've heard Black Krim is better in the spring. I think I'll try cherry tomatoes this time.

For those who don't know HEB it's the national grocery store of Texas!

cythaenopsis · August 15, 2013

The key to a deficient potting medium is to compensate with fertilizer. I've been doing this more diligently now and I see a difference. My Black Krim has 5 fruits set now, two of them near the top of my nearly 6' tall plant. Given how much of the season is left, I feel like this thing will reach over 7' if I don't prune it.

efisakov · August 15, 2013

Quote:

Originally Posted by cythaenopsis

The key to a deficient potting medium is to compensate with fertilizer. I've been doing this more diligently now and I see a difference. My Black Krim has 5 fruits set now, two of them near the top of my nearly 6' tall plant. Given how much of the season is left, I feel like this thing will reach over 7' if I don't prune it.

Let it be, do not prune. The amount of sun exposure is on decline, tomato leafs are the key to a sweet tomatoes. It is a good sign that you have new set of fruits. Congratulations.

cythaenopsis · August 18, 2013

^ It is now taller than me, and I'm 6' tall! What's particularly amusing for me is that there are several tomatoes growing above my eye level. So, I've decided not to prune but I will continue to pull suckers to help divert resources to the tomatoes that have set. And quite a number of them have done so now. I've got about 6-7 going at marble/golf ball size and another 4-5 about pea sized. What's also interesting is that two stalled tomatoes came to life! These are ones that appeared to have set about 4-5 weeks ago, but ended up doing nothing. It'll be interesting to see how large they end up growing.

cythaenopsis · September 2, 2013

Well... the "bounce back" I'd experienced was only temporary. That 6' tall plant has about 70% leaf curl and almost 40% of the tomatoes have suffered from BER.

In contrast, I'm growing a rooted sucker (that came from the parent) in potting mix with Jobe's Tomato Food fertilizer and the contrast is remarkable (lush leaves, earlier fruit production, larger fruit, no BER, etc). At this point I'm tempted to just abort the parent. There's only about 6-7 tomatoes on it that look like they'll make it to the ripening stage without BER. But nothing is guaranteed. I may give it another couple of weeks and decide then.

Anyway, in retrospect I must say that one should NEVER skimp on the potting medium. A reputable and recommended medium is well worth the investment. Sure, tomatoes are hearty and can grow in almost anything, but it's an entirely different story for "healthy and productive"!

NarnianGarden · September 4, 2013

I'm very impressed by the amount of fruit (and their size!) I have seen in my plants. Container plants can easily produce 10 large fruits (I mean large, as from megablooms) and more. The deciding factor seems to be fertilizing - enough and different types. I have been giving my babies some organic bonemeal, some chicken manure and some chemical concoction that's meant for flowers - but it seems to be good for vegetables as well.

Interesting to hear about that more foliage is good late in season. Someone else adviced the opposite: less leaves, more sunlight. Hmmm.... differing methods again.

July 23, 2013	#31
efisakov Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Nov 2012 Location: NJ, zone 7 Posts: 3,162	I was researching fusarium wilt and stumble into kelp. I could not stop reading about it. Now I am searching for the place to purchase it and trying to figure out what is better kelp meal or liquid. __________________ Ella God comes along and says, "I think I'm going to create THE tomato!”

July 23, 2013	#33
cythaenopsis Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jul 2013 Location: Hoboken, NJ USA Posts: 347	^ The climate/environment, the variety, the stage of plant growth, and indications of the leaves will have an influence on what kind of fertilizer to apply and its frequency. I wish there was a chart for this! As such, it seems like each gardener is destined to "find their own way". You take whatever advice you can find, but ultimately you'll happen upon what works best for your situation (as long as you're conscientious to take note of what you do and the results). Also keep in mind that (based on what I've read) you can do everything the same one year to the next and still get different results. The environment is key. For instance, in my case I'd been seeing some slight leaf curl with my Black Krim, but the intense heatwave from last week incurred some serious curling, to the point where some leaves are completely rolled. I lost some blossoms, too. About 6 blossoms had set and are showing thickening stems (which is a good thing), but after a week they've shown no progress. The blossoms may have aborted but can't easily fall off. Didn't matter what I'd have done, the heat was just too intense for too long. __________________ I'm GardeningAloft.blogspot.com (container growing apartment dweller)

August 4, 2013	#34
cythaenopsis Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jul 2013 Location: Hoboken, NJ USA Posts: 347	One other problem I think I brought upon myself was the fear of over-fertilizing. My thought would fall back on nature, that in the wild tomato plants will be dealing with just basic soil and make do with what comes naturally. Adding fertilizer isn't natural, but it's a step towards optimization of nutrient availability. So, better to do less fertilizer than too much, right? Well, container growing seems to be a very different story. It's not a natural situation for a tomato plant to be growing in an isolated container. Thus, frequent fertilizing is essential. Next time, I'd rather do too much and then be faced with backing it off rather than doing too little. There is that middle ground of not having too much but having "just enough" not to show nutrient deficiency in the leaves. I think it my case I had just enough for a healthy plant but not enough to promote lots of fruit growth. I increased fertilization modestly at plant maturity, but I don't think it has been enough as I suffered yet another round of blossom drop... as for early August that's almost a death sentence on any potential fruit beyond what is currently growing to harvest by the end of the season. __________________ I'm GardeningAloft.blogspot.com (container growing apartment dweller)

August 4, 2013	#35
efisakov Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Nov 2012 Location: NJ, zone 7 Posts: 3,162	It is not true. I have tomatoes blooming in September, setting fruits and collecting my latest in October or even November. Enough to say, my Carbon plant last year survived hurricane Sandy (October 31) and had few green tomatoes growing until I picked them a bit pink. Do not get discouraged. Keep on going, girl. You have at least 2 more months, as long as your plants are healthy. __________________ Ella God comes along and says, "I think I'm going to create THE tomato!”

August 4, 2013	#36
cythaenopsis Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jul 2013 Location: Hoboken, NJ USA Posts: 347	^ Thanks for the encouragement, Ella. There is the consideration of the shifting seasons we've witnessed with global warming effects. So... even late October may still permit plants to keep going outdoors. I'm going to keep at it, but I've definitely suffered a big dent in my resolve. But I guess it's something I need to work on anyway, being able to dispense with regret--learn and move on. __________________ I'm GardeningAloft.blogspot.com (container growing apartment dweller)

August 4, 2013	#37
TexasAngel Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jun 2013 Location: Zone 8b Posts: 39	Well they just kept declining so I pulled them. I want to add soil amendments then get a couple of plants for a fall crop. I found the Black Krim at an HEB. You never know what will turn up at those stores. I think every store is different. Last night I stopped in at an HEB Plus. They had Celebrity, BHN 444 and Solar Flare. I'm going back to the other HEB to see what they have set out. I've heard Black Krim is better in the spring. I think I'll try cherry tomatoes this time. For those who don't know HEB it's the national grocery store of Texas!

August 15, 2013	#38
cythaenopsis Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jul 2013 Location: Hoboken, NJ USA Posts: 347	The key to a deficient potting medium is to compensate with fertilizer. I've been doing this more diligently now and I see a difference. My Black Krim has 5 fruits set now, two of them near the top of my nearly 6' tall plant. Given how much of the season is left, I feel like this thing will reach over 7' if I don't prune it. __________________ I'm GardeningAloft.blogspot.com (container growing apartment dweller)

August 18, 2013	#40
cythaenopsis Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jul 2013 Location: Hoboken, NJ USA Posts: 347	^ It is now taller than me, and I'm 6' tall! What's particularly amusing for me is that there are several tomatoes growing above my eye level. So, I've decided not to prune but I will continue to pull suckers to help divert resources to the tomatoes that have set. And quite a number of them have done so now. I've got about 6-7 going at marble/golf ball size and another 4-5 about pea sized. What's also interesting is that two stalled tomatoes came to life! These are ones that appeared to have set about 4-5 weeks ago, but ended up doing nothing. It'll be interesting to see how large they end up growing. __________________ I'm GardeningAloft.blogspot.com (container growing apartment dweller)

September 2, 2013	#41
cythaenopsis Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jul 2013 Location: Hoboken, NJ USA Posts: 347	Well... the "bounce back" I'd experienced was only temporary. That 6' tall plant has about 70% leaf curl and almost 40% of the tomatoes have suffered from BER. In contrast, I'm growing a rooted sucker (that came from the parent) in potting mix with Jobe's Tomato Food fertilizer and the contrast is remarkable (lush leaves, earlier fruit production, larger fruit, no BER, etc). At this point I'm tempted to just abort the parent. There's only about 6-7 tomatoes on it that look like they'll make it to the ripening stage without BER. But nothing is guaranteed. I may give it another couple of weeks and decide then. Anyway, in retrospect I must say that one should NEVER skimp on the potting medium. A reputable and recommended medium is well worth the investment. Sure, tomatoes are hearty and can grow in almost anything, but it's an entirely different story for "healthy and productive"! __________________ I'm GardeningAloft.blogspot.com (container growing apartment dweller)

September 4, 2013	#42
NarnianGarden Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jun 2013 Location: Finland, EU Posts: 2,550	I'm very impressed by the amount of fruit (and their size!) I have seen in my plants. Container plants can easily produce 10 large fruits (I mean large, as from megablooms) and more. The deciding factor seems to be fertilizing - enough and different types. I have been giving my babies some organic bonemeal, some chicken manure and some chemical concoction that's meant for flowers - but it seems to be good for vegetables as well. Interesting to hear about that more foliage is good late in season. Someone else adviced the opposite: less leaves, more sunlight. Hmmm.... differing methods again.