Ripping up the backyard lawn and have a few questions - Page 2

KarenO · December 18, 2013

here's another practical option as a renter: weed out the area, landscape fabric mulched over nicely with something organic that looks nice like shredded bark and make yourself a beautiful garden of assorted sized and shaped containers arranged on top of the mulch. It certainly looks like a lovely sheltered and sunny spot and the benefit of that approach is that you can take all of your collected containers filled with good soil you paid for with you when next you move.
Karen

tlintx · December 19, 2013

Quote:

Originally Posted by KarenO

here's another practical option as a renter: weed out the area, landscape fabric mulched over nicely with something organic that looks nice like shredded bark and make yourself a beautiful garden of assorted sized and shaped containers arranged on top of the mulch.

This is a fantastic idea. You can always find pots at garage sales, too. Or you could use black nursery pots or Earthtainers inside a cedar raised bed frame if you like that look. I have a spot I planned to turn into a raised bed this year that I mulched with pine needles and lined 13" SIPs ($10 at Walmart) on in rows for some extra winter crops.

I can say that I found no real difference between double digging under a raised bed and just building a raised bed over grass. But I'm on clay so it's essentially a big container either way.

Oh, and my raised beds are very shallow, about 5.5", because that's the width of the cedar planks. The sunniest place in the backyard is in the easement -- should I need to move them, I can disassemble them very quickly. This year I'm going to be brave and put most of my tomatoes and peppers in the front yard!

Redbaron · December 24, 2013

I would suggest keeping the grass and top few inches of soil. It's the prime part. Just cover it with a paper or cardboard weed barrier and cover that with a heavy mulch several inches thick. Then leave in between rows in sod and simply mow it.

I realize it is unconventional, but I trialed the process last year over virgin sod, and it worked fantastic, WAY less labor as well. But it takes a bit of a different view. I don't have "weeds" per se. I have solar collectors of energy that convert sunlight into food and fertilizer for the soil ecosystem. You can find the details in "gardening in the green" Red Baron Project year one.

habitat_gardener · December 24, 2013

Quote:

Originally Posted by Redbaron

...I realize it is unconventional...

Sheet mulching is standard practice around here. Even landscape contractors use it! (the same ones that use permeable paving and promote low-water-use plants)

Redbaron · December 24, 2013

Quote:

Originally Posted by habitat_gardener

Sheet mulching is standard practice around here. Even landscape contractors use it! (the same ones that use permeable paving and promote low-water-use plants)

Agreed. But most gardens sheet mulch the whole garden and don't leave between the rows in sod. I took what I already knew about sheet mulching from well over 30 years ago, tried and tested methodology, and combined it with what I knew about companion planting and then combined that with some new information I was discovering about grassland biomes and rotational grazing and made a subtle change to the way I was sheet mulching in the past. It worked even better than expected.

OldHondaNut · December 29, 2013

10x20 is fairly small, small enough to use a shovel. I would double dig and remove grass and weeds by hand. When I was done I would top it with compost and composted manure and turn it again. Do a little at a time, maybe 3 or 4 linear feet a day. You will see new growth in the area already done and you can pull that easily since the soil will be loose. In a week or two the bed will be ready. It will also be raised from loosening the soil and from the added compost. That is good cause it will warm a little earlier and drain better. A month into the season, try to get something over it to keep the weeds from growing but if you don't , just pull the weeds before they get out of hand. Repeat next year.

I like to use a spade. Not too big a chunk at a time and easily splits into my black gumbo better than my wider shovels. Good luck.

Doug9345 · January 4, 2014

If I was going to do it by hand I'd use a spading fork and not a spade. I don't think I can drive a spade through my lawn grass easily and there is just enough rocks to make digging miserable.

OldHondaNut · January 4, 2014

Problem with a spading fork is that it will nut cut the grass like a spade will. Cut all sides and then dig section out. But hey, it is your choice.

Like this:

habitat_gardener · January 4, 2014

If I had bermuda grass, I'd either rent a sod cutter or else sift through the top 6 inches of soil to get it all out (or hire someone else to do it).

For any other grass, all it takes is a layer of cardboard or newspaper (free) and some mulch from arborists (free) and a few (depending on how large the area is) hours of work in the fall or winter, and it's ready to plant in the spring.

I can't imagine any reason why I'd ever use a spade or a digging fork to get rid of a lawn! It's so easy to just smother it and let it compost.

OldHondaNut · January 4, 2014

Quote:

Originally Posted by habitat_gardener

If I had bermuda grass, I'd either rent a sod cutter or else sift through the top 6 inches of soil to get it all out (or hire someone else to do it).

I can't imagine any reason why I'd ever use a spade or a digging fork to get rid of a lawn! It's so easy to just smother it and let it compost.

Clay and $$$.

Doug9345 · January 4, 2014

Ad about 2 1/2" of stolons, ground ivy and other weeds with underground stems and you have the fields around here. It's murder on a tiller but plows and discs fine if you can get it dry enough. That means the one or two days in the spring when it's just right you had better plow.

kevinrs · March 17, 2014

I have a similar situation, in Palmdale CA. We've mowed and tilled in the weedy side yard, and since it's not fall now, no time for a cover crop. Trying to find what is going to be the best value for the money in fertilizer. I don't want to add anything with sludge, but am open to organic or not. Everything I look at gives different amounts of different rated fertilizers to use. The plan is to plant popcorn on that side, while everything else will be planted in the same area I've been using for 3 years. I'd like to find what fertilizer or combo of fertilizers I can use for the corn mainly, as well at the rest of the garden with the tomatoes peppers etc.
So far I've looked at the big orange store, and little matches up with what I've read in recommendations online. That and the big blue store are the main local options besides some greenhouse shops.
Anyone got any specific recommendations on what I should get and how much to use per foot of corn row and per tomato plant etc?

Redbaron · March 17, 2014

Quote:

Originally Posted by kevinrs

I have a similar situation, in Palmdale CA. We've mowed and tilled in the weedy side yard, and since it's not fall now, no time for a cover crop. Trying to find what is going to be the best value for the money in fertilizer. I don't want to add anything with sludge, but am open to organic or not. Everything I look at gives different amounts of different rated fertilizers to use. The plan is to plant popcorn on that side, while everything else will be planted in the same area I've been using for 3 years. I'd like to find what fertilizer or combo of fertilizers I can use for the corn mainly, as well at the rest of the garden with the tomatoes peppers etc.
So far I've looked at the big orange store, and little matches up with what I've read in recommendations online. That and the big blue store are the main local options besides some greenhouse shops.
Anyone got any specific recommendations on what I should get and how much to use per foot of corn row and per tomato plant etc?

You will have a difficult time getting specific recommendations without a soil test. But in general corn is a heavy nitrogen feeder. The manure highest in nitrogen is chicken I believe..if you go organic.

nnjjohn · March 17, 2014

yard may be contaminated with heavy metals if some previous owner parked a car and dumped who know in the yard. If tests prove fine for gardening,, i would rent or buy a cheap electric tiller,, bought mine on amazon years ago and it is tough little green earth tiller. Saved my back for third year .. tilling is recommended because you will likely need lots of soil amendments and also may need to loosen hard earth and rock.. mine works dislodging small rocks and stones around 4 inches.. than you rake and shovel and add miracle grow peat or whatever top soil you might think you need. I try to loosen soil to about 12 inches. from there you learn and hope you have a green thumb and enjoy

kevinrs · March 18, 2014

I'm not worried much about dumped toxins, house was built in the 80s, the side yard is a little narrow for parking, and I'm still working on getting some stumps out of it. Besides I've had some trouble finding good affordable soil testing, there doesn't seem to be an university agricultural extension in California that does that kind of thing.

December 24, 2013	#18
Redbaron Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Sep 2012 Location: Oklahoma Posts: 4,488	I would suggest keeping the grass and top few inches of soil. It's the prime part. Just cover it with a paper or cardboard weed barrier and cover that with a heavy mulch several inches thick. Then leave in between rows in sod and simply mow it. I realize it is unconventional, but I trialed the process last year over virgin sod, and it worked fantastic, WAY less labor as well. But it takes a bit of a different view. I don't have "weeds" per se. I have solar collectors of energy that convert sunlight into food and fertilizer for the soil ecosystem. You can find the details in "gardening in the green" Red Baron Project year one. __________________ Scott AKA The Redbaron "Permaculture is a philosophy of working with, rather than against nature; of protracted & thoughtful observation rather than protracted & thoughtless labour; & of looking at plants & animals in all their functions, rather than treating any area as a single-product system." Bill Mollison co-founder of permaculture

December 29, 2013	#21
OldHondaNut Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: Zone 8a Posts: 120	10x20 is fairly small, small enough to use a shovel. I would double dig and remove grass and weeds by hand. When I was done I would top it with compost and composted manure and turn it again. Do a little at a time, maybe 3 or 4 linear feet a day. You will see new growth in the area already done and you can pull that easily since the soil will be loose. In a week or two the bed will be ready. It will also be raised from loosening the soil and from the added compost. That is good cause it will warm a little earlier and drain better. A month into the season, try to get something over it to keep the weeds from growing but if you don't , just pull the weeds before they get out of hand. Repeat next year. I like to use a spade. Not too big a chunk at a time and easily splits into my black gumbo better than my wider shovels. Good luck. Last edited by OldHondaNut; December 29, 2013 at 02:54 PM.

March 17, 2014	#29
nnjjohn Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Mar 2013 Location: northern new jersey Posts: 683	I would test soil first yard may be contaminated with heavy metals if some previous owner parked a car and dumped who know in the yard. If tests prove fine for gardening,, i would rent or buy a cheap electric tiller,, bought mine on amazon years ago and it is tough little green earth tiller. Saved my back for third year .. tilling is recommended because you will likely need lots of soil amendments and also may need to loosen hard earth and rock.. mine works dislodging small rocks and stones around 4 inches.. than you rake and shovel and add miracle grow peat or whatever top soil you might think you need. I try to loosen soil to about 12 inches. from there you learn and hope you have a green thumb and enjoy __________________ john

December 18, 2013	#16
KarenO Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Oct 2012 Location: Vancouver Island Posts: 5,922	here's another practical option as a renter: weed out the area, landscape fabric mulched over nicely with something organic that looks nice like shredded bark and make yourself a beautiful garden of assorted sized and shaped containers arranged on top of the mulch. It certainly looks like a lovely sheltered and sunny spot and the benefit of that approach is that you can take all of your collected containers filled with good soil you paid for with you when next you move. Karen

January 4, 2014	#22
Doug9345 Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Oct 2011 Location: Durhamville,NY Posts: 2,706	If I was going to do it by hand I'd use a spading fork and not a spade. I don't think I can drive a spade through my lawn grass easily and there is just enough rocks to make digging miserable.

January 4, 2014	#24
habitat_gardener Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: California Central Valley Posts: 2,540	If I had bermuda grass, I'd either rent a sod cutter or else sift through the top 6 inches of soil to get it all out (or hire someone else to do it). For any other grass, all it takes is a layer of cardboard or newspaper (free) and some mulch from arborists (free) and a few (depending on how large the area is) hours of work in the fall or winter, and it's ready to plant in the spring. I can't imagine any reason why I'd ever use a spade or a digging fork to get rid of a lawn! It's so easy to just smother it and let it compost.

March 17, 2014	#27
kevinrs Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: Littlerock, CA Posts: 218	I have a similar situation, in Palmdale CA. We've mowed and tilled in the weedy side yard, and since it's not fall now, no time for a cover crop. Trying to find what is going to be the best value for the money in fertilizer. I don't want to add anything with sludge, but am open to organic or not. Everything I look at gives different amounts of different rated fertilizers to use. The plan is to plant popcorn on that side, while everything else will be planted in the same area I've been using for 3 years. I'd like to find what fertilizer or combo of fertilizers I can use for the corn mainly, as well at the rest of the garden with the tomatoes peppers etc. So far I've looked at the big orange store, and little matches up with what I've read in recommendations online. That and the big blue store are the main local options besides some greenhouse shops. Anyone got any specific recommendations on what I should get and how much to use per foot of corn row and per tomato plant etc?

March 18, 2014	#30
kevinrs Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: Littlerock, CA Posts: 218	I'm not worried much about dumped toxins, house was built in the 80s, the side yard is a little narrow for parking, and I'm still working on getting some stumps out of it. Besides I've had some trouble finding good affordable soil testing, there doesn't seem to be an university agricultural extension in California that does that kind of thing.