Slightly early garlic harvest, what are the consequences?

[fortyonenorth]

I should clarify: you're not sacrificing too much in terms of size unless you fail to remove the scapes altogether.

[tjg911]

are you growing the same varieties using this new method as you grew when using the old method, ie comparing apples to apples?

different varieties of rocambole types may store shorter or longer than other rocamboles.

different varieties of porcelain types may store shorter or longer than other porcelains.

also comparing a rocambole to a porcelain is an apples to oranges comparison. rocambole types do not store as long as porcelain types.

often softneck varieties store longer than hardnecks but not always, some softnecks don't store as long as some hardnecks.

this is an interesting idea you have raised. could you please provide an update in early 2012 as to how your storage was for the varieties by name using the old vs the new method. if this works i'd be happy to cut the scape later and get a longer storage. i harvest so much a decrease in bulb size wouldn't be important so long as it wasn't a huge difference like 50% smaller, i'd be ok with a 33% decrease in size if i could get an extra 4 and especially 6-8 weeks in storage.

tom

[salix]

Interesting discussion - I shall try to remember to remove about two-thirds of the scapes at the usual time, and leave the rest until the scapes straighten before removing them. Wouldn't you know it, this is the year I have 19 different varieties, so it will be a bit of a challenge keeping all of the apples and apples straight, and keeping the oranges out of the mix!

[fortyonenorth]

This conversation inspired me to re-read the section of Ron Engeland's "Growing Great Garlic" that discusses the issue of scape removal. Here are a few pieces of additional info in no particular order:

>> Average decrease in bulb size is about 1/4" for each additional week the scape is left intact after the coil in the flower stalk is first formed.

>> non-Rocambole type ophio garlics suffer more loss in bulb size than Rocamboles

>> If you choose to remove scapes "early" wait at least until the flower stalks curl - otherwise they might grow back

>> When Engeland first experimented with allowing the flower stalks to mature, the control (scapes removed after first curl) were dehydrated by October. Those in which the stalks were allowed to mature were rock hard through the winter

>> Based on his experience in Washington state, he is fairly convinced that allowing the flower stalk to harden (at about the time it uncurls) encourages the bulb to remain dormant longer.

>> He also suggests that climate, soil and other environmental factors could affect the degree of success an individual would have with "late" removal of scapes. His suspicion is that those with poor or moderately fertile soil would do better with "early" removal and those with rich, highly fertile soil would benefit from later removal.

[tjg911]

Originally Posted by fortyonenorth

This conversation inspired me to re-read the section of Ron Engeland's "Growing Great Garlic" that discusses the issue of scape removal. Here are a few pieces of additional info in no particular order:

>> Average decrease in bulb size is about 1/4" for each additional week the scape is left intact after the coil in the flower stalk is first formed. a 1/4" in bulb size per week is no big deal for me. my bulbs tend to be good sized tho some german red or maybe it was german white can be smallish.

>> non-Rocambole type ophio garlics suffer more loss in bulb size than Rocamboles is this referring to just hardnecks? if so are those porcelains or all other hardneck types besides rocambole? can't remember what an ophio is

>> If you choose to remove scapes "early" wait at least until the flower stalks curl - otherwise they might grow back

>> When Engeland first experimented with allowing the flower stalks to mature, the control (scapes removed after first curl) were dehydrated by October. never saw this happen to my garlic and i cut the scapes when they complete 1 full curl. Those in which the stalks were allowed to mature were rock hard through the winter

>> Based on his experience in Washington state, he is fairly convinced that allowing the flower stalk to harden (at about the time it uncurls) encourages the bulb to remain dormant longer. this may be due to his weather in washington? some parts are very wet i think west of the rockies and dry as desert east of the rockies. but this is what we are discussing.

>> He also suggests that climate, soil and other environmental factors could affect the degree of success an individual would have with "late" removal of scapes. His suspicion is that those with poor or moderately fertile soil would do better with "early" removal and those with rich, highly fertile soil would benefit from later removal. climate, soil, weather, type/varieties of garlic may all influence these results.

great info! i commented in red above.

[TomNJ]

Keep in mind that a 1/4 inch loss in the diameter of a garlic bulb translates to a much larger loss in volume (weight). The volume of a sphere is proportional to the cube of its linear dimensions. Therefore if a perfect sphere measuring 2.25" in diameter is reduced to 2.00" in diameter, the volume (and hence weight) of the sphere is reduced by 30%. Garlic bulbs are not perfect spheres, but they are close and the volume/linear ratio is still valid.

TomNJ

[fortyonenorth]

Obviously commercial growers are concerned primarily with size which translates directly to profits. In most cases, they sell their Rocamboles before storage becomes an issue. As TJG pointed out, if you're growing an adequate amount of garlic the size of each individual head is of secondary importance. Much better to have better storage life.

[davespitzer]

Anybody know where Ron Engeland is these days? He doesn't seem to be affiliated with the Filaree Farms site, at least his name isn't there. Just curious. Dave

[TomNJ]

Filaree Farm was owned by Ron Engeland's wife, Watershine Woods. They have now apparently divorced and Watershine has sold the garlic business at the farm to a young farmer named Alley Swiss.

For more details, see: http://okanoganproducers.org/News

TomNJ

[tjg911]

Watershine? whoa! hippy parents strike again?

[davespitzer]

Thanks for the info re: Ron Engeland. I refer to his book constantly, sorry to hear he's not still in the game. Good to hear that the farm has passed into new hands, tho', I have bought their garlic and love the quality. Dave

[Suze]

I have the Engeland book, and have read it cover to cover. It is definitely a good resource if you are into garlic. Did not realize at all that he was at one time affiliated with Filaree.

The person I have been dealing with ever since I've ordered from Filaree for the last few years is Tom Cloud - in any case, he's the fellow that seems to take care of the shipping arrangements and the ordering process. Does a great job.

[salix]

Dug my garlic this evening - good growth, good condition with only 2 or 3 bulbs having a split wrapper. The best/largest varieties of 19 were: Fish Lake, Northern Quebec, Yugoslavian and Majestic. Am looking forward to trying the last 3 as they are new to me; mind you, have never met a garlic I didn't like! They are drying under the walkway, sheltered from rain. I still worry about losing them to a wandering bear, though. In the wild they are very fond of digging up lily bulbs and other tubers...

[tjg911]

Originally Posted by salix

I still worry about losing them to a wandering bear, though. In the wild they are very fond of digging up lily bulbs and other tubers...

that'd be a drag! hopefully no bears.

do like bear grylls does and walk around your garlic saying "yo bear", it always works for him to keep bears away!

tom