Floating flag problems

[Havman]

Must b something to do with your watering system. Pretty new to this but would like to find new ways of watering. I use a gallon jug along the plant base. Water and fertilize threw this container.
Also what is the flag and cork used for? Water depth?
Any help would b appreciated.
Thanks, Jim

[dice]

Can u tell me what this is?

It is a float on the bottom of a stick or wire with a flag on the other
end, meant to sit in the fill tube of a self-watering container. When
the reservoir is dry, the thing sinks to the bottom, and hides the flag
on the end, so that you know it needs water.

(It is probably not compatible with automatic watering systems, which
also put a float in the bottom but have valve hardware, etc, in the fill
tube.)

[SIP Gro-Tubs]

Originally Posted by dice

It is a float on the bottom of a stick or wire with a flag on the other
end, meant to sit in the fill tube of a self-watering container. When
the reservoir is dry, the thing sinks to the bottom, and hides the flag
on the end, so that you know it needs water.

(It is probably not compatible with automatic watering systems, which
also put a float in the bottom but have valve hardware, etc, in the fill
tube.)

Never put a float valve in the bottom of a SWC, or SIP. If you need to adjust it, or it malfunctions, you wouldn't be able to service it.

The big plus to exterior float valves, is that you can interconnect you growing containers also. Simple equipment sold at most box stores, tho HD is the best for this type of equipment. I tho buy all mine at Ewing's.

Terry

[dice]

The automatic watering systems I am most familiar with are for
the Earthbox:
http://earthbox.com/index.php/earthb.../aws-kits.html
http://earthbox.com/index.php/earthb...em-sensor.html
(The sensor goes in the fill tube.)

(Feel free to describe an external float system that autotunes to
the rate of evaporation in containers that have plants growing in
them.)

For the flags themselves, imagine the hole markers on a golf putting
green, only they are sticking out of the fill tubes for self-watering
containers. When they disappear, the container needs water.

[SIP Gro-Tubs]

Originally Posted by dice

The automatic watering systems I am most familiar with are for
the Earthbox:
http://earthbox.com/index.php/earthb.../aws-kits.html
http://earthbox.com/index.php/earthb...em-sensor.html
(The sensor goes in the fill tube.)

(Feel free to describe an external float system that autotunes to
the rate of evaporation in containers that have plants growing in
them.)

For the flags themselves, imagine the hole markers on a golf putting
green, only they are sticking out of the fill tubes for self-watering
containers. When they disappear, the container needs water.

Wrote a description for each picture, explaining the picture, did the submit, and everything I, wrote disappeared, and left the pictures.

Will try agian tommorow.

Terry Layman

[dice]

The water runs out of an external reservoir with the float in it into all
of the containers with plants. At first they are all maxed out and so
is the external reservoir, with the water level the same in all of them.
As the plant containers use up the water, water runs into their
containers from the external reservoir, just to maintain the level
in all of the containers in a connected system like that, and the float
operates a valve that refills the external reservoir. (That would be my
guess.)

So they all have to be on the same level?

[SIP Gro-Tubs]

Originally Posted by dice

The water runs out of an external reservoir with the float in it into all of the containers with plants.

Pretty much true, water seeks it's own level.

At first they are all maxed out and so is the external reservoir, with the water level the same in all of them.

No, all the time each container is kept level with the external valve bucket waters level. No matter if a tub in the chain uses more than the other tubs.


As the plant containers use up the water, water runs into their containers from the external reservoir, just to maintain the level in all of the containers in a connected system like that, and the float operates a valve that refills the external reservoir. (That would be my guess.)

Good quess.

So they all have to be on the same level?

Ideally yes, but what is ideal in this world?

Slopes in land level can be compenstated for with shims, blocks of wood, etc.

Or by setting the valve container at the low end of the slope, the tubs placed up the slope will have a maintained water level of less than the ideal level in thier 6" deep reservoirs.

The only part of this system that is pressurized is the water hose connected to the float valve, after that there isn't any presurrized pipe fitting necessary.

I'll get a picture of all the parts needed to make this system and post them later for you.

Terry

[SIP Gro-Tubs]

I, just made up a album of 5 Pictures, showing all the parts of this system.

SIP's 4 gl Reservoir

Terry

[SIP Gro-Tubs]

NOTE: The only pressurized part of the system is the water hose connection, after the water goes thru the float valve, all the water flows by gravity, being that water seeks its own level. I'm just south of San Antonio, TX. So all of my supplies are from companies in the city, the names of those companies follow the parts bought from them, and are listed in the Sources below.

You won't need a in-line pressure reducer, or a backflow preventer since the float valve won't backflow, and a water filter as what you need in a 1/4" micro drip system. All of the parts in my system are 1/2" ID

Going from the male end of a water hose into the bucket

1. 1 ea. Adjustable Float Valve, Ewing Irrigation
2. 1 ea. PVC connector for hooking a Water Hose HPT to the float valve's MIPT, HomeDepot
3. 1 ea. 3-5 gl bucket, Free, or if I, have to buy one not more than 50 cents ea.

Coming out of the bucket to the first Tee in the Header Line

4. 1 ea. of one half of a 1/2" Sch. 80 PVC Coupling FIPT x FIPT, Ewing Irrigation. I, take the coupling and chop saw 1/2'' from each end of the coupling, then I, take those pc's and chase the FIPT with a 1/2'' MIPT bottom tap.)
5. 1 ea. 7/8" I/D Buna Neoprene Washer, S.A. Belt and Pulley. A Buna washer used inside a high pressure Quik Disconnect coupling air hose.
6. 1 ea. 1/2" x Close Sch 80 pipe nipple ( close means 1" to 1 1/4" in lenght, depends on the manufacture ) Ewing Irrigation
7. 1 ea. 1/2" PVC, Sch 40, 90 Degree Elbow, FIPT x FIPT, Ewing Irrigation
8. 1 ea. 1/2" x 12" Cobra Connector, these are a flexible hose, with each end having a FIPT Compression fitting. these are used in irrigation systems, AMC Irrigation Co.
9. 1 ea. 1/2" PVC, Sch 40, Tee, Slip x Slip x FIPT, Ewing Irrigation

Alternate to #4 above, if you can find them. 1/2" FIPT plastic lock nut with a washer face. They are costly as much as $3 ea. but with my way I can reduce it to 20 cents ea.


10. Coming from the first Tee in the Header Line, to the second Tee, then into the 1/st SIP Tub

You will need Line items 4 thru 9, plus 2 pcs of 1/2" x 6'' PVC pipe, and a 1/2" PVC Cap, Ewing Irrigation


11. For each additional SIP Tub, Add Line items 4 thru 9, determine the centers of your containers and that will be the length of 1/2" PVC pipe you will need, Ewing Irrigation

At the end of the 1/2" header line, its a good idea to add a 1/2" PVC Ball Valve, so you can drain most of the water in each SIP at the end of the growing season or adding more SIP's

Additional items you need
a. PVC cement
b. PFE plumbers goop, for a water sealer between the buna washer and the inside of the SIP.
c. A 7/8'' hole saw
d. Cordless drill.
e. This isn't Rocket Science, my 10 year old granddaughter can do it, you can to.


My sources:

Ewing Irrigation
AMC Irrigation
or order from Cobra Connectors http://www.cobraconnector.com same product as I buy from AMC but don't have to pay S/H charges.
San Antonio Belt and Pulley
Home Depot handles Orbit Irrigation supplies Line Item #2

My Costs using my Sources above.

Line items 1 thru 3 $11.60
Line items 4 thru 9 $3.36
Line item 10 $3.86
Line item 11 $4.26

[dice]

What is that stuff they use in RV plumbing, PEX? That might work
for this kind of setup. (If someone steps on it or falls on it, it does
not necessarily break.)

[SIP Gro-Tubs]

Originally Posted by dice

What is that stuff they use in RV plumbing, PEX? That might work
for this kind of setup. (If someone steps on it or falls on it, it does
not necessarily break.)

PEX would be OK to use but the cost of it is about 2.5 times what regular 1/2" tubing costs.

Then check the prices on the fittings, they arn't cheap.

And they are Brass, and will corrode with fertilizer salts.

Testing was done in South Africa on the in-destructible qualities for it. They set up a system, laid it on the ground and them stampeded a bunch of drunk elephants over it, some of them fell and rolled over the material, that didn't do anything to destroy it, nothing will.

Terry

[elight]

Hi Terry, I actually do use a float valve to maintain the water level across my system. The problem is that water does not always flow through the tubing as expected. Things can get clogged up. So I like to know that each container's water level is as expected.

[SIP Gro-Tubs]

Originally Posted by elight

Hi Terry, I actually do use a float valve to maintain the water level across my system. The problem is that water does not always flow through the tubing as expected. Things can get clogged up. So I like to know that each container's water level is as expected.

What size tubing are you using?

Whats your water source?

Are you using a manifold system, or running from pot to pot?

Is there any place in the tubing that is higher than the water level in the control box?

With very small tubing, the sun heat can twist it so that the tubing actually gets higher than the water level, causing a air bubble to form in the tubing, which will stop water siphoning.

If your getting clogged up, thats a dirty water problem, and the smaller the tubing, that is more prevalent of a problem.

1/4" ID tubing is the smallest you should go with, thats if you don't use the connector fittings, the hole inside the connector is way less than 1/4", more like 1/8".

Water flowing into the bell end of a pipe, doesn't have any friction loss so the pressure stays the same, but if the flow of water goes into the other end, the flat face of that end of the pipe will create friction which will decrease the waters pressure, and the bell end will leak.

So with tubing connectors inserted into the tubing, will also trap small particles, and if you have a any disolved solids in the water supply that is were they will accumlate and cut the water flow off over time.

Using the system I've designed will elimanate all your problems if installed correctly.

Terry

[elight]

Originally Posted by SIP Gro-Tubs

What size tubing are you using?

1/4" ID.

Originally Posted by SIP Gro-Tubs

Whats your water source?

A large plastic garbage can that holds 31 gallons of water.

Originally Posted by SIP Gro-Tubs

Are you using a manifold system, or running from pot to pot?

No manifold. This year, I have two EarthTainers, so I am running one tube from the reservoir, and there's a T connection to split the line.

Originally Posted by SIP Gro-Tubs

Is there any place in the tubing that is higher than the water level in the control box?

No. Last year, when my containers were on grass, I used garden staples to hold them down. This year, I am on a patio and use tape.

Originally Posted by SIP Gro-Tubs

If your getting clogged up, thats a dirty water problem, and the smaller the tubing, that is more prevalent of a problem.

Yes, I think part of it was a dirt problem last year. There are a handful of shut-off valve in the chain (so I can take one container or the reservoir offline easily), and they got clogged - a few twists on the valve cleaned things up.

Another problem I had was root penetration. Despite the double layer of landscape fabric, roots got into the EarthTainer reservoirs, and eventually made they way up the drip tubing!

This has been a very informative thread for many people!

[SIP Gro-Tubs]

Originally Posted by elight

1/4" ID.



A large plastic garbage can that holds 31 gallons of water.

Is there any algae growing on the inside of the garbage can, even tho by looking you don't see any, try this, submerge you hand under water and rub along the isdide side of the can, if it feels slimy or oily, that algae growing. True it's not green, but not all algae's are green. This will bind with undisolved solids in your water, which will stick to the inside of your tubing when all gravity flow stops during periods of non-flow, such as at night or cool days when the plants arn't transpiring.


No manifold. This year, I have two EarthTainers, so I am running one tube from the reservoir, and there's a T connection to split the line.

Your water flowing thru you 1/4" tubing when it comes to the face of the connector with its 1/8" opening is being reduced by a factor of 4, or 25%. Its also the point were most clogs start



No. Last year, when my containers were on grass, I used garden staples to hold them down. This year, I am on a patio and use tape.

Since 1/4" tubing is not made for high pressure systems, if in the grass someone steps on the staple, the tubing can compress makeing a restriction in the line. Same is true on your patio

Yes, I think part of it was a dirt problem last year. There are a handful of shut-off valve in the chain (so I can take one container or the reservoir offline easily), and they got clogged - a few twists on the valve cleaned things up.

I, wouldn't use shut-off valves in such a small watering system, they are nice to have, and the manufactures arn't as accurate to specs for manufacturing them. I, tried them one year in the greenhouse growing baskets, they were too much of a pain. Got rid of them and went back to 3/4 poly tube manifolds, with inserts for the small drip emitters, the 1/4" tubing valves were replaced with 3/4" ball valves.

Another problem I had was root penetration. Despite the double layer of landscape fabric, roots got into the EarthTainer reservoirs, and eventually made they way up the drip tubing!

Landscape fabric wasn't designed to stop root penetrations from the top, or bottom. They are design for weed seeds below the fabric from growing thru the fabric after they sprout.
The weeds are restricted from sunlight getting thru the fabric, so the die post haste.

But if you get a small amount of soil on top of the fabric that will support a seed to sprout the roots will grow right thru the fabric. Even commercial growers that use the commercial type of weedblock, keep the top of that fabric cleaned of any leaves, dirt, etc, so weeds don't have a place to sprout.

You need to re-read his instructions in Chapter 3. Step 8

"Top water the plants sparingly each week during the first 4 weeks. This will help establish the root system in encouraging growth down into the more moist area."

In my type of system, you don't have to do this since I bring the moisture up to were the new plants root ball is after planting. That also insures the plant has a steady supply of moisture during the growing season.

Terry Layman

This has been a very informative thread for many people!