What's wrong with my plant stems?

[jflournoy]

Originally Posted by ginger2778

I am confused now. I saw where you said the stems were small as a pencil in diameter, but I didn't read where you said they had a narrower diameter than the rest of that particular plant at the soil level. I also didn't see it in any of your pictures. And you described the broken stems as BRITTLE, not mushy.
What am I missing? Did I misinterpret that it was the whole stem that was as small as a pencil, when it was actually narrowed only at the soil line, and hadn't started out that way due to being leggy and not a strong plant?

Marsha

The whole stem above ground was not small as a pencil when the various plants perished/broke, it was only narrowed right at the soil line. It was almost like from the time the plant was planted, there was no growth below the soil line, only above. Some of the plants that broke had an above ground stem diameter of 3/4", but the plants overall didn't look very healthy, lagging behind others in terms of growth. We're probably to be digging up some more to re-plant today, I will try to remember to take a picture a post it here.

Originally Posted by Heritage

Was the third plant from the bottom-right in the June 7 photo the same plant as in the June 14 photo? Or was the June 14 plant a replacement? The June 7 plant looks pretty well established and on equal footing with the others.

The June 14 plant was a replacement. The plant it replaced (a New Yorker) had been doing well, but all of a sudden it started looking very wilty several days in a row, like some others had done before breaking, and I know it had plenty of soil moisture, so we didn't wait for that one to break, we just went ahead and took it out and replaced it.

Originally Posted by Heritage

Also, it looks like you lost the 4th plant in that (front) row between June 14 and June 20? Was it typical to lose plants grouped together, or were the losses totally random?

Totally random except for one small area of the garden, where there were several plants that looked very similiar in their "sickly" appearance. That is the only place where I think there might be something actually having to do with the soil, everywhere else was random.

[Salsacharley]

Originally Posted by JamesL

JF,
Nice setup and pictures. It would appear you have all the commentary you need so I will only chime in on h2o2.
Salsacharley,
You do mean 3% h2o2 cut in half (50%) to 1.5% right?
I think 50%, if you could get it, is close to rocket fuel...
I have had good success with peroxide and damping off as well. Also works well as a spot spray for various diseases when you don't want or need to spray everything? I generally use a 1% solution or less though and I prefer to buy the 35% food grade version and dilute down from there.
It would get expensive quick to try to treat an entire garden with it though.
Haven't used this product but it is the pro version and designed to be used as a spray or soil drench.
Oxidate -
http://www.arbico-organics.com/produ...rowing-mediums

I did mean a 3% solution diluted 50% with water.

[JamesL]

I knew you did. I was just teasing....
They do use it as rocket fuel, but if I remember right it is closer to 90%.

[Heritage]

jflournoy.

If you get a chance (when you replace the plants today) do the tests to check for bacterial wilt. Bacterial Stream test is halfway down page.

Also, photos would be helpful

Steve

[jflournoy]

Here are some pictures from this morning. These plants hadn't broken/collapsed yet, but they were very floppy at the ground level and you can see why. This is what almost all of the ones that did collapse looked like when we dug them up out of the ground. These 2 particular plants didn't look the greatest for the last few weeks, but when we got an unseasonal heat wave this week with high's in the low 90's, they really went downhill, started to yellow and seriously wilt. I'm guessing the puniness (is that a word?) of their root systems just couldn't handle the heat stress. Keep in mind, these plants had been in the ground for a month.

Some of the plants we replaced today still had enough green on the upper part of the plant that I decided to stick them in a cup of water for a few days and try to root them as was suggested in this thread. I'll report back on that in several days. I haven't seen any signs of "oozing", and where I cut the main stems back, above the callousing at ground level, everything looks pretty healthy.

4h.jpg

4i.jpg

[Cole_Robbie]

Here are two links about damping off with similar pics:
http://www.omafra.gov.on.ca/IPM/engl...mping-off.html (pics on right)
Post-emergence damping-off is characterized by seedlings that wilt and fall over. On larger plants, sunken, dark lesions may develop on the stem or a rot of the feeder roots may occur, resulting in a stunted or wilted plant or plant death.
Pythium generally causes symptoms below the soil line, while Rhizoctonia and Fusarium symptoms are more often at or above the soil surface. Pythium and Phytophthora cause damage in cool, wet soils; Rhizoctonia and Fusarium prefer warmer, drier conditions.


http://4.bp.blogspot.com/--g-ndpbqkG...amping+Off.jpg

[Labradors2]

Good pictures! My problem was very similar and I too tested for oozing, but got none. I rooted the tops with no apparent problem, yet Carolyn suggested somewhere that if it is a damping off problem we shouldn't do that, which I understood to mean that there is disease within the plant which will manifest later. Watching and waiting to see what happens......

Linda

[RayR]

I guess that settles that—root rot pathogen at its most evil work.
A biological imbalance calls for biological remediation and I think the salty Miracle Grow isn't helping the situation one bit.

Vermicompost tea the rhizosphere and the human gut?

Cornell has a lot of good info on this Vermicompost A Living Soil Amendment

Worm Power has links to a lot of interesting info

Inoculating the roots with Mycorrhizae, Trichoderma and beneficial bacteria wouldn't hurt either.

[AKmark]

I hope you figure it out, I can tell by the background of your picture that you take great care of your plants and appear to have a lot of pride in your work.

[Heritage]

It is pretty amazing how much damage a tomato plant can take and still appear healthy! I'm not familiar with that pathogen or if the rot is a secondary cause. Have you dug around the stems of the healthy plants to see if they are showing any early signs of the rot?

The symptoms look pretty distinctive and might be easy to diagnose for someone familiar with them. Maybe contact your county extension agency and send in a sample for diagnosis. I see they charge a small fee but it might be worth it especially if you are planning on planting in the same field next year.

Good luck, please keep us posted.
Steve

[b54red]

Originally Posted by jflournoy

Do you feel like those plants you planted more shallow, were more susceptible to getting real thirsty in the heat of the Summer? Obviously, it doesn't get as hot in southern Ohio as it does in Alabama, but still, I worry a bit about the roots getting too dry. I can water, if necessary, with a drip irrigation set-up I've got set-up there already, but I'd like to leave them alone as much as possible to do their thing naturally.

Yes I did worry about that so I mulched the ground after preparing it and wet it down then a day or so later just pulled the mulch aside and planted the seedlings at the depth they were into the cooler ground. I didn't water for a few day and they did wonderfully. I set out a new tomato bed just two weeks ago and the temps were in the mid 90s as they still are and I did this and had no loses despite the heat. They are now blooming and over two feet tall and a couple have actually set a fruit or two already.

I have a friend who has lost 9 full grown plants to bacterial wilt and he followed my advice about the bleach soak in the spot before replanting. He replanted in those same spots and has not lost a plant and he made sure not to plant deep.

Bill

[ginger2778]

Wow, good pictures. Damping off for sure!

Marsha

[RayR]

Originally Posted by Heritage

It is pretty amazing how much damage a tomato plant can take and still appear healthy! I'm not familiar with that pathogen or if the rot is a secondary cause. Have you dug around the stems of the healthy plants to see if they are showing any early signs of the rot?
Steve

It is amazing that with that much root damage and vascular damage to the stem that the plant is still alive at all.

[jflournoy]

Originally Posted by RayR

I guess that settles that—root rot pathogen at its most evil work.
A biological imbalance calls for biological remediation and I think the salty Miracle Grow isn't helping the situation one bit.

Vermicompost tea the rhizosphere and the human gut?

Cornell has a lot of good info on this Vermicompost A Living Soil Amendment

Worm Power has links to a lot of interesting info

Inoculating the roots with Mycorrhizae, Trichoderma and beneficial bacteria wouldn't hurt either.

Is "root rot pathogen" something entirely separate, not related at all to Damping Off?

[jflournoy]

Just got in from planting 28 new plants picked up at the nursery yesterday, to replace the bad ones.

Not a huge selection, but I got some Mexico, Tangerine, Mortgage Lifter, Rutgers, Brandywine Black, Early Girl, Supersonic, Big Beef and Ball's Beefsteak.