Interesting Read: Ectomycorrhizae vs. Endomycorrhizae Mycorrhizae

rnewste · March 6, 2011

My son just started carrying the new Sunshine Advanced Mix #4 at his store, and he tells me this "blows away the growth pattern of the current Sunshine Mix #4", as reported by his customers.

The New "Advanced" Mix adds in Endomycorrhizae for the first time.

In researching it a bit, the Sun Gro material indicates that Ectomycorrhizae is not effective with growing vegetable plants, but Endomycorrhizae is very useful. Here is an excerpt from their Sunshine Advanced Mix #4 brochure:

"""Mycorrhizae and Sun Gro Mixes

WHAT IS MYCORRHIZAE?

The word mycorrhizae (pronounced My-cor-rye-zay) refers to a group of fungi which form a mutually beneficial relationship with many plants. These fungi grow either inside of a plant's roots or attach to the surface of a root. The fungi benefits from the plant's food and nutrients and in turn send their hyphae (like small roots) out into the surrounding soil to absorb nutrients and water.
So, mycorrhizae actually enhance a plant's ability to take up nutrients and water. Because of this, research has shown that the presence of mycorrhizae also help plants deal with drought and some diseases. Approximately 95% of the world's plants have some form of mycorrhizal dependence. As far as growing is concerned, in many cases, increased root and top growth occurs when plants are treated with mycorrhizae. These benefits are not always evident, especially on short term crops, unless the crop is stressed or planted into a landscape where water and nutrients are less available.

TYPES OF MYCORRHIZAE
There are two main groups of mycorrhizae – Ectomycorrhizae and Endomycorrhizae. Both groups are specific in what plant types they will work with. Ectomycorrhizae forms relationships with birch, oak, spruce, pine and fir, but is not important to most greenhouse growers since the above plant types are not typical greenhouse crops.

The second group of mycorrhizae is endomycorrhizae which are also known as vesicular-arbuscular mycorrhizae or VAM. Roughly, 80% of all the plants in the world form associations with endomycorrhizae, as does nearly every greenhouse plant. So, this is the group of mycorrhizae that is most important to greenhouse growers, and the everyday grower. It is the one that you want.

WHAT INFLUENCES MYCORRHIZAL GROWTH?
It is not difficult to create a good environment for endomycorrhizal (VAM) colonies, all that's needed is a plant that forms a relationship with VAM. After that, the primary factor is the amount of inorganic phosphorus in your growing system. Since the relationship between plant and fungi evolved to help the plants access low levels of phosphorus in the soil, mycorrhizae do not grow and colonize roots when the phosphorus level is high. Phosphorus levels above 10 ppm in the soil solution will negatively impact the growth and establishment of mycorrhizae. A high phosphorus level does not kill the mycorrhizae, it just creates an environment in which the mycorrhizae do not germinate and grow, and this renders them ineffective. As a grower, you should use low phosphorus feeds for the first 30 days to allow the mycorrhizae to grow.

Typical lime rates and medium pH levels of Sun Gro growing medium products do not have a significant positive or negative effect on the growth and colonization of mycorrhizae.

Chemical fungicides should be avoided especially at the start of production and until enough time has elapsed to allow root colonization to occur.

SUN GRO MIXES
The Sun Gro technical team has found excellent colonization results when mycorrhizae is added to Sunshine Natural & Organic formulations. Organic fertilizers release their nutrients slowly over time so the levels of phosphorus remain within a tolerable range for good mycorrhizal growth and colonization. Since we wish to supply our customers with the best performance, we are offering Sunshine Natural & Organic Mixes with mycorrhizae.

COMPETITIVE GROWING MEDIA PRODUCTS
Other media products in the market offer single species of endomycorrhizae or offer a blend of endo and ecto mycorrhizae. Sunshine mixes amended with mycorrhizae use a blend of endo species designed to enhance colonization under a wide range of growing conditions. We do not add ectomycorrhizae since they provide no benefit to most crops."""

Note that the "new" Sunshine Advanced Mix #4 adds Coco-Coir into the ingredients.

Some additional Links to study:

http://sunshineadvanced.com/products...nics.html#mix4

http://sunshineadvanced.com/brochure...-Talk-Mix4.pdf

Raybo

amideutch · March 7, 2011

Good read Ray and roger on the VAM. If you look at the MycoGrow Vegetable you will notice that the ingredients are only Endomycorrhoizae. Ami

rnewste · March 7, 2011

Quote:

Originally Posted by amideutch

Good read Ray and roger on the VAM. If you look at the MycoGrow Vegetable you will notice that the ingredients are only Endomycorrhoizae. Ami

Ami,

So the Ecto ingredients are of no value in the MycoGrow when growing tomatoes???

How does this square with the composition of the Biota Max?

Raybo

les matzek · March 7, 2011

i will be trailing sunshine advanced mix #4 and sunshine advanced
super hydro mix in my minitainers this spring to see if either one of
them gives me better results than the regular sunshine # 4 mix
have given me for the past 3 years, they say super hydro mix is
the fastest draining mix they make (indoor use),good luck.

les

RayR · March 7, 2011

Raybo, ECTO-mycorrhizal fungi are of no value to Tomatoes or much else that we grow in a vegetable garden.

Here's a list of Endomycorrhizal, Ectomycorrhizal, and Non-mycorrhizal plants.

rnewste · March 7, 2011

Quote:

Originally Posted by les matzek

i will be trailing sunshine advanced mix #4 and sunshine advanced
super hydro mix in my minitainers this spring to see if either one of
them gives me better results than the regular sunshine # 4 mix
have given me for the past 3 years, they say super hydro mix is
the fastest draining mix they make (indoor use),good luck.

les

les,

Please keep us posted on your comparison trial of the new Sunshine Advanced Mix #4. Are you also planning on adding in either Biota Max or MycoGrow to the "old" Sunshine Mix to see if you can get similar growth results vs. the "new" Sunshine Advanced Mix which contains the endos?

As I've got 11 bales of the "old" Sunshine Mix #4 sitting in the backyard at the moment, I am hoping I can replicate the addition of endos to get a similar growth result - - rather than chucking 11 bales and having to spring for the new Advanced Mix.

Also, was there a price difference when you bought the Advanced Mix, or are they phasing out the old Mix in favor of their new formulation at the same price?

Raybo

rnewste · March 7, 2011

Ami,

My post to you above was meant more as a "declarative statement", rather than a question - - sorry for the confusion.

So to your point, I conclude that we are wasting money buying the Soluble MycoGrow at $5.95, when all the tomato plants will benefit from are just the Endos that are in the $4.95 Vegetable formulation. So rather than getting a half-ounce of each Ecto and Endo in the pouch, I would rather have a full ounce of the Endo contained in the "Vegetable" version:

MycoGrow™ For Vegetables

A blend of endomycorrhizal species selected specifically for vegetables, 1 ounce of MycoGrow™ For Vegetables is mixed with 1 gallon of water for a water drench. This product can also be banded in rows or side dressed before plantings, or mixed directly in pots and trays. Sold in one pound and one ounce increments.
One ounce HMVG1O $4.95

One pound HMVG1P $59.95

Note: this product cannot be shipped to Hawaii.

Contains concentrated spore mass of the following:

Endomycorrhizal fungi Glomus intraradices, Glomus mosseae, Glomus aggregatum, Glomus etunicatum

I'm not "cheap", to save a Dollar, but it would appear according to the Sunchine Mix folks as well as the links Ray posted that all we really need are the Endos in the Vegetable product. Right??

Raybo

EDIT: Just noticed there are 9 Glomus / Gigaspora ingredients in the MycoGrow Soluble, yet only 4 Glomus ingredients in the "Vegetable" version. Question is, are the missing 5 not in the Vegetable formulation important for tomato production - - or not?

MycoGrow Soluble:

Endomycorrhizal fungi Glomus intraradices, Glomus mosseae, Glomus aggregatum, Glomus monosporum, Glomus clarum, Glomus deserticola, Gigaspora margarita, Gigaspora brasilianum, Gigaspora etunicatum

les matzek · March 7, 2011

hi ray

i get near wholesale priceing from a friend, i will still be useing regular
sunshine # 4 mix mostly because it has been working super for me in
my minitainers for the past 3 years, i am just hopeing maybe i can
get a little better results from one of them ??.

my priceing for super hydro mix is $ 18.00 for the 2 cubic foot bag,
my price for the 2.2 cu. ft. is 25.00, the price for the 3.8 cu. ft.
regular # 4 mix is $ 29.00 per bale.

what i will be trailing this spring will be to use folage pro and pro
tekt at 1/4 teaspoon per gallon,in each minitainer i have a 11 inch
air stone that runs 24/7 in each minitainer, for an extra boost this
year i will use g.h. rapid start along with the above.

this year i will use actinovate as a drench at plant out and then
1 week later use exel l g as a foliar feed one week later i will use
serenade as a foliar spray and then stare all over again,regards.

les

Dutch · March 7, 2011

Quote:

Originally Posted by RayR

Raybo, ECTO-mycorrhizal fungi are of no value to Tomatoes or much else that we grow in a vegetable garden.

Artificial infestation of a milled pine bark-sewage sludge growing medium produced the best ectomycorrhizal development.
http://www.srs.fs.usda.gov/pubs/650

amideutch · March 7, 2011

Quote:

So to your point, I conclude that we are wasting money buying the Soluble MycoGrow at $5.95

Negative. The original post dealt with Endo and Ecto Mycorrhizae exclusively. The other Bacteria and fungi that come with MycoGrow Soluable are indeed players to plants of the vegetable varieties and the same is true for Biota Max. As stated above Ecto has no real value to vegetables. Ami

March 6, 2011	#1
rnewste Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Campbell, CA Posts: 4,064	Interesting Read: Ectomycorrhizae vs. Endomycorrhizae Mycorrhizae My son just started carrying the new Sunshine Advanced Mix #4 at his store, and he tells me this "blows away the growth pattern of the current Sunshine Mix #4", as reported by his customers. The New "Advanced" Mix adds in Endomycorrhizae for the first time. In researching it a bit, the Sun Gro material indicates that Ectomycorrhizae is not effective with growing vegetable plants, but Endomycorrhizae is very useful. Here is an excerpt from their Sunshine Advanced Mix #4 brochure: """Mycorrhizae and Sun Gro Mixes WHAT IS MYCORRHIZAE? The word mycorrhizae (pronounced My-cor-rye-zay) refers to a group of fungi which form a mutually beneficial relationship with many plants. These fungi grow either inside of a plant's roots or attach to the surface of a root. The fungi benefits from the plant's food and nutrients and in turn send their hyphae (like small roots) out into the surrounding soil to absorb nutrients and water. So, mycorrhizae actually enhance a plant's ability to take up nutrients and water. Because of this, research has shown that the presence of mycorrhizae also help plants deal with drought and some diseases. Approximately 95% of the world's plants have some form of mycorrhizal dependence. As far as growing is concerned, in many cases, increased root and top growth occurs when plants are treated with mycorrhizae. These benefits are not always evident, especially on short term crops, unless the crop is stressed or planted into a landscape where water and nutrients are less available. TYPES OF MYCORRHIZAE There are two main groups of mycorrhizae – Ectomycorrhizae and Endomycorrhizae. Both groups are specific in what plant types they will work with. Ectomycorrhizae forms relationships with birch, oak, spruce, pine and fir, but is not important to most greenhouse growers since the above plant types are not typical greenhouse crops. The second group of mycorrhizae is endomycorrhizae which are also known as vesicular-arbuscular mycorrhizae or VAM. Roughly, 80% of all the plants in the world form associations with endomycorrhizae, as does nearly every greenhouse plant. So, this is the group of mycorrhizae that is most important to greenhouse growers, and the everyday grower. It is the one that you want. WHAT INFLUENCES MYCORRHIZAL GROWTH? It is not difficult to create a good environment for endomycorrhizal (VAM) colonies, all that's needed is a plant that forms a relationship with VAM. After that, the primary factor is the amount of inorganic phosphorus in your growing system. Since the relationship between plant and fungi evolved to help the plants access low levels of phosphorus in the soil, mycorrhizae do not grow and colonize roots when the phosphorus level is high. Phosphorus levels above 10 ppm in the soil solution will negatively impact the growth and establishment of mycorrhizae. A high phosphorus level does not kill the mycorrhizae, it just creates an environment in which the mycorrhizae do not germinate and grow, and this renders them ineffective. As a grower, you should use low phosphorus feeds for the first 30 days to allow the mycorrhizae to grow. Typical lime rates and medium pH levels of Sun Gro growing medium products do not have a significant positive or negative effect on the growth and colonization of mycorrhizae. Chemical fungicides should be avoided especially at the start of production and until enough time has elapsed to allow root colonization to occur. SUN GRO MIXES The Sun Gro technical team has found excellent colonization results when mycorrhizae is added to Sunshine Natural & Organic formulations. Organic fertilizers release their nutrients slowly over time so the levels of phosphorus remain within a tolerable range for good mycorrhizal growth and colonization. Since we wish to supply our customers with the best performance, we are offering Sunshine Natural & Organic Mixes with mycorrhizae. COMPETITIVE GROWING MEDIA PRODUCTS Other media products in the market offer single species of endomycorrhizae or offer a blend of endo and ecto mycorrhizae. Sunshine mixes amended with mycorrhizae use a blend of endo species designed to enhance colonization under a wide range of growing conditions. We do not add ectomycorrhizae since they provide no benefit to most crops.""" Note that the "new" Sunshine Advanced Mix #4 adds Coco-Coir into the ingredients. Some additional Links to study: http://sunshineadvanced.com/products...nics.html#mix4 http://sunshineadvanced.com/brochure...-Talk-Mix4.pdf Raybo

March 7, 2011	#2
amideutch Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Germany 49°26"N 07°36"E Posts: 5,041	Good read Ray and roger on the VAM. If you look at the MycoGrow Vegetable you will notice that the ingredients are only Endomycorrhoizae. Ami __________________ Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out, shouting ‘...Holy Crap .....What a ride!'

March 7, 2011	#7
rnewste Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Campbell, CA Posts: 4,064	Ami, My post to you above was meant more as a "declarative statement", rather than a question - - sorry for the confusion. So to your point, I conclude that we are wasting money buying the Soluble MycoGrow at $5.95, when all the tomato plants will benefit from are just the Endos that are in the $4.95 Vegetable formulation. So rather than getting a half-ounce of each Ecto and Endo in the pouch, I would rather have a full ounce of the Endo contained in the "Vegetable" version: MycoGrow™ For Vegetables A blend of endomycorrhizal species selected specifically for vegetables, 1 ounce of MycoGrow™ For Vegetables is mixed with 1 gallon of water for a water drench. This product can also be banded in rows or side dressed before plantings, or mixed directly in pots and trays. Sold in one pound and one ounce increments. One ounce HMVG1O $4.95 One pound HMVG1P $59.95 Note: this product cannot be shipped to Hawaii. Contains concentrated spore mass of the following: Endomycorrhizal fungi Glomus intraradices, Glomus mosseae, Glomus aggregatum, Glomus etunicatum I'm not "cheap", to save a Dollar, but it would appear according to the Sunchine Mix folks as well as the links Ray posted that all we really need are the Endos in the Vegetable product. Right?? Raybo EDIT: Just noticed there are 9 Glomus / Gigaspora ingredients in the MycoGrow Soluble, yet only 4 Glomus ingredients in the "Vegetable" version. Question is, are the missing 5 not in the Vegetable formulation important for tomato production - - or not? MycoGrow Soluble: Endomycorrhizal fungi Glomus intraradices, Glomus mosseae, Glomus aggregatum, Glomus monosporum, Glomus clarum, Glomus deserticola, Gigaspora margarita, Gigaspora brasilianum, Gigaspora etunicatum Last edited by rnewste; March 7, 2011 at 02:15 PM.

March 7, 2011	#4
les matzek Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Landers, CA Posts: 191	i will be trailing sunshine advanced mix #4 and sunshine advanced super hydro mix in my minitainers this spring to see if either one of them gives me better results than the regular sunshine # 4 mix have given me for the past 3 years, they say super hydro mix is the fastest draining mix they make (indoor use),good luck. les

March 7, 2011	#5
RayR Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: Cheektowaga, NY Posts: 2,466	Raybo, ECTO-mycorrhizal fungi are of no value to Tomatoes or much else that we grow in a vegetable garden. Here's a list of Endomycorrhizal, Ectomycorrhizal, and Non-mycorrhizal plants.