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Old October 15, 2016   #166
RJGlew
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Although this post is about a couple of indeterminates, I think most of the folks who are reading this thread will be interested. This past season I grew the CZ hybrid Start S F1 (from Semo) against a couple of my regular US earlies, Fourth of July F1 and Early Treat F1. Start S F1 had caught my eye last year when Vladomir posted a picture of his plant here in TV - & I have included that same picture here. It’s an early, and the plant and fruit struck me as being very similar to FoJ, so I decided to grow them both and do a comparison. The two pictures of fruit are mine, taken about 6 weeks ago with Fourth of July F1 on the left, and Start S F1 on the right. The Start fruit is a bit larger than FoJ, and in general, I would say this is typically the case. The 2 marks on Start are hail damage, and interestingly, the damaged fruit didn't rot - typically not the case.

I was very impressed with the taste of Start, and for me, I would rank it as being much better than FoJ. It is definitely sweeter, and as I ate them side by side, slice by slice, the FoJ began to taste more and more acidic, which I do not like. The skin of FoJ was typically thick, and that is much thicker than Start's. In a different taste test, I found Start was much better tasting than the Saraev varieties too, all of which I find a bit acidic.

In my opinion, Start S F1 is a much better tomato than both Fourth of July F1 and Early Treat F1 and all the Saraevs. This year I grew 2 x FoJ, 2 x ET and 1 x Start, but for next summer I am planning 3 x Start, 1 x FoJ and 1 x ET. I am also looking forward to trying a few more early CZ hybrids in 2017, and will be thrilled if any of them are as good as Start S F1. Highly recommended, and thanks Vlad.
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File Type: jpg Vlad Start.jpg (75.9 KB, 305 views)
File Type: jpg Start vs FoJ.jpg (40.6 KB, 304 views)
File Type: jpg Start vs FoJB.jpg (40.6 KB, 303 views)
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Old October 15, 2016   #167
sjamesNorway
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I also grew Start S F1 outside this year, and while I agree that it is an excellent old-fashioned tasting tomato, it wasn't early for me at 88 dtm. Growing next to it, I had Sakharnyi Pudovichok, which is a compact indeterminate. It ripened a week earlier at 80 dtm, was larger (up to 450 g.), and had outstanding taste.

Steve
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Old October 15, 2016   #168
Lydinge
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Originally Posted by AKmark View Post
I start them after April 15th for a late May garden planting, May 25th or later on average. They are between two and three feet tall, and two- three feet wide.
I will write down the names of the good ones, some are really sweet tomatoes, and the texture is pretty good too, especially since we have had a lot of rain lately. I would say 4-5 of them are early, good, and productive, others are okay. I tried them again and they even seemed sweeter, and one has a full nice tomato flavor.
These are the same planting dates I have for Sweden, except that we often get light frosts around the 13th of June (Iron Nights /Järnnätter). Of course we are probably about the same latitude. Always enjoy your posts because they are relevant for me. Had fantastic luck this year with 0-33 (first tomato on July 12th!!) and yields until late September.

A bit later, but number one in the taste department, as usual, was Siletz. Stupice is my other must-have. Now I am thinking about next year and very curious to hear your experience with the Saraev tomatoes. Would like to try a few myself, but have limited space. So, hope that report card comes in soon!!
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Old October 15, 2016   #169
RJGlew
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sjamesNorway View Post
I also grew Start S F1 outside this year, and while I agree that it is an excellent old-fashioned tasting tomato, it wasn't early for me at 88 dtm. Growing next to it, I had Sakharnyi Pudovichok, which is a compact indeterminate. It ripened a week earlier at 80 dtm, was larger (up to 450 g.), and had outstanding taste.

Steve
Interesting, and funny that Start F1 was so slow for you. I grew Sakharnyi Pudovichok in 2015 - it ripened in 81 days, about 20 days after my early indeterminates that year. My notes say "2015 - Big fruit with good taste. Lots of cracking and no reason to grow over the good hybrids." Here is a picture of one from 2015, close to 1.5 pounds.

rg
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Last edited by RJGlew; October 16, 2016 at 03:19 AM.
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Old October 15, 2016   #170
RJGlew
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This past season I grew Saraev 0-33, Saraev Druzhnya, Saraev Gruntovye, Saraev I-2, Saraev M-22, Saraev Otbor 1, Saraev Shtambovyi and Saraev Stoikiy. I found most of them quite average, except for Saraev 0-33 and Saraev Druzhnya which I will continue with. This was my 2nd year with 0-33 and it produces a big crop of small to medium sized fruit with a nice taste. Druzhnya grows and produces pretty much the same way, and imho, the taste is similar. Plants are about 3' tall and are easily contained in a standard cage. The rest of them produced smaller fruit, and for me, in the same size class and earliness, I prefer Stupice and Bloody Butcher. All managed to ripen fruit in my Zone 3a garden. I found all the Saraev tomatoes a bit acidic for me.

I'll continue with 0-33 and Druzhnya as my earliest medium sized determinates, and they will replace my two long standing go to varieties, Kalinka and Polbig F1. In 2017 my early determinate plans include Jagodka, Krainiy Sever, Lyana, Sanka, Saraev 0-33, Saraev Druzhnya and Sophie's Choice.

In the picture the 3 bigger tomatoes from left to right are 0-33 (4.94 oz), Big Beef F1 (6.74 oz) and 0-33 (4.97oz). The smaller tomatoes to the left are mixed Saraev varieties, Start S F1 and Early Treat F1, 1.31 to 1.94 oz. There are no Saraev Druzhnya shown, but the typical ones are the same size as the medium O-33 and just a bit flatter.
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Last edited by RJGlew; October 16, 2016 at 05:01 PM. Reason: Add picture & text.
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Old October 16, 2016   #171
MrBig46
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I do not check DTM in my garden, because at the beginning of the season I do not have time to watch when which flower on the plant opens. I only know that the earliest tomatoes Stupické are with me. In 2014, matured for me Tomato F1 Start at 29.07. A few pictures to compare ripening Stupices
Vladimír
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File Type: jpg MoDi 19072014 2.JPG (44.7 KB, 274 views)
File Type: jpg Stup 19072014 5.JPG (39.1 KB, 273 views)
File Type: jpg StPr 19072014 1.JPG (47.4 KB, 273 views)
File Type: jpg StSk 27072014 2.JPG (46.0 KB, 273 views)
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Old October 16, 2016   #172
RJGlew
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MrBig46 View Post
I do not check DTM in my garden, because at the beginning of the season I do not have time to watch when which flower on the plant opens. I only know that the earliest tomatoes Stupické are with me. In 2014, matured for me Tomato F1 Start at 29.07. A few pictures to compare ripening Stupices
Vladimír
Vladimir,

Thank you for posting the pictures. I am ready for my 2017 Zone 3a Stupice comparison which will include:

Stupice (Tatiana/West Coast Seeds)
Stupice (unknown NA source)
Stupické Polní Rané (Moravo)
Stupické Polní Rané (Semo)
Stupické Polní Rané (Tatiana/Seva)
Stupické Skleníkové (Tatiana/Vladimir)

I am not going to grow Moravsky Div since it remains unclear to me what it actually is. I believe I recall you mentioning that it is simply CZ sourced Morava Stupické Polní Rané seed marketed & sold in Russia under a different name.

In 2016 I grew Stupice (unknown NA source), Stupické Polní Rané (Moravo) & Stupické Polní Rané (Semo). I don't want to report on them yet, but there certainly were differences in plant size and vigour.

rg

Last edited by RJGlew; October 16, 2016 at 12:58 PM.
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Old October 17, 2016   #173
Gardeneer
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RJGlew View Post
Vladimir,

Thank you for posting the pictures. I am ready for my 2017 Zone 3a Stupice comparison which will include:

Stupice (Tatiana/West Coast Seeds)
Stupice (unknown NA source)
Stupické Polní Rané (Moravo)
Stupické Polní Rané (Semo)
Stupické Polní Rané (Tatiana/Seva)
Stupické Skleníkové (Tatiana/Vladimir)

I am not going to grow Moravsky Div since it remains unclear to me what it actually is. I believe I recall you mentioning that it is simply CZ sourced Morava Stupické Polní Rané seed marketed & sold in Russia under a different name.

In 2016 I grew Stupice (unknown NA source), Stupické Polní Rané (Moravo) & Stupické Polní Rané (Semo). I don't want to report on them yet, but there certainly were differences in plant size and vigour.

rg
Couple of years ago I planted one Stupice. Don't know which strain was it. I had potato top and tomatoes grew on big clusters. I did not like the size and production. This year I bought some stupice from farmers market and saved seeds from, that I liked. So I will plant some next year.
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Happy Gardening !
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Old December 17, 2016   #174
MrBig46
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In 2017, I will continue to experiment with very early derminante tomatoes
I will launch sowing the seeds of determinante tomatoes in winter solstice which is on Wednesday, December 21, 2016. I've prepared seeds of these bush varieties:
Urbikany
Sophie´s choice
Kalinka
Latah
Mountain Pricess
0-33
M-22
I-2
Sarayev Druzhnyi
Sarayev Shtambovyi
Maglia Rosa
Twelve plants I will then grow in hotbed and another eight in cold frame (like this year).
Vladimír
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Old December 17, 2016   #175
RJGlew
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MrBig46 View Post
In 2017, I will continue to experiment with very early derminante tomatoes
I will launch sowing the seeds of determinante tomatoes in winter solstice which is on Wednesday, December 21, 2016. I've prepared seeds of these bush varieties:
Urbikany
Sophie´s choice
Kalinka
Latah
Mountain Pricess
0-33
M-22
I-2
Sarayev Druzhnyi
Sarayev Shtambovyi
Maglia Rosa
Twelve plants I will then grow in hotbed and another eight in cold frame (like this year).
Vladimír

Hi Vladimir,

Merry Christmas, and I hope you and your family have an enjoyable holiday. Your list looks interesting, and I have a couple of questions.

1) You have only listed 5 Saraev varieties from the 8 you tried last year. How did you eliminate 3?

2) If you start your seeds on Dec 21st, will you be able to put them out in your hotbed or cold frame 6 or 8 weeks after that (late Feb)? Have you shown us the design of your hotbed?

Good luck with your experiment,

rg
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Old December 18, 2016   #176
MrBig46
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Hi Robert,
I wish you and your family happy and cheerful Christmas and New Year!
I wrote June 25, 2016
„Slowly begin to ripen some fruit, but only the smaller (Stupice, Sarayev I-2, ..). It's too late for me- disappointment. Next season I will have sown the determinate varieties around the December 20. In early April I will planting seedlings with nine leaves into cold frame (not like this year when I planted a small seedling only with four to five leaves). I expect the first harvest (not just individual berries) will be the beginning of June“.
I want to plant seedlings into hotbed (also into cold frame ) like this year sometime in late March. Already now I have to sow, because in my domestic conditions (17-18 ° C and short days)I am not able to grow large enough seedlings in less time.
I had to do a choice:
Sarayev Stoikyi - blossomed late and had a late ripe fruit
Sarayev Otbor 1 - plant this variety has been for me a source of infection - bacterial spot. Next year, I do not want to risk anything
Sarayev Gruntovyi- for me was the worst of the remaining six
Frame for warm greenhouses now I've put down 15 cm below the level of the surrounding terrain. At this level (- 15 cm) I will plant tomatoes. When the seedlings grow up, I pick up the frame at the ground level, to have more room for growth.
To warm up I will use horse manure and leaves with the addition of nitrate fertilizer, which will give on the bottom of the trench.
Vladimír
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Old December 22, 2016   #177
MrBig46
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Yesterday I has sown eleven varieties of cherry tomatoes for this program.
Vladimír
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Old December 26, 2016   #178
RJGlew
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Yesterday I has sown eleven varieties of cherry tomatoes for this program.
Vladimír
Fantastic news, and I look forward to hearing about your progress. Thank you for reposting about your hot bed, I had missed it originally. Interesting that Otbor 1 was a disease problem for you; it was not for me, but the production was not high. It is -21 C here today, and predictions are for a cold January too.
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Old December 26, 2016   #179
RJGlew
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Duplicate

Last edited by RJGlew; December 26, 2016 at 03:29 AM. Reason: Duplicate
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Old December 26, 2016   #180
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Vladimir,
So glad to see you are persevering in these trials, not only of varieties but also methods.
I think the hotbed idea is a very good one! Looking forward to your results.
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