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Old August 14, 2015   #1
AlittleSalt
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Default Tomato And Citrus

In my age of age of using tomatoes for something other than slicing and adding a little salt - I haven't reached the crawling stage yet.

I've read so much about adding citric acid to tomato canning/sauces/salsas. I did make some sauce for pasta and squeezed in a lemon. It tasted pretty good too. Years ago, we tried to make salsa (Before we knew to use citric acid) and the salsa was so sweet that it got fed to the compost bin.

I'm curious as to why adding some lemon or lime juice makes tomato salsa/sauce taste so much better? Is using citric acid something we need to do when we break out the 23 quart Presto Pressure Canner?

I hope this thread eventually helps a lot of people.
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Old August 14, 2015   #2
Worth1
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AlittleSalt View Post
In my age of age of using tomatoes for something other than slicing and adding a little salt - I haven't reached the crawling stage yet.

I've read so much about adding citric acid to tomato canning/sauces/salsas. I did make some sauce for pasta and squeezed in a lemon. It tasted pretty good too. Years ago, we tried to make salsa (Before we knew to use citric acid) and the salsa was so sweet that it got fed to the compost bin.

I'm curious as to why adding some lemon or lime juice makes tomato salsa/sauce taste so much better? Is using citric acid something we need to do when we break out the 23 quart Presto Pressure Canner?

I hope this thread eventually helps a lot of people.
I wont comment on the lemon making the tomato taste better My taste is on the sweet side.

Adding citric acid to tomatoes while canning them is another story.To water bath can something the PH has to be 4.6 or below for it to be safe.
Tomatoes are just under that and to be safe many people add citric acid.
You can by a bottle at the store and it will treat about 77 quarts of tomatoes.
You have purchased a pressure canner and if you pressure can then there is no need to worry about that 4.6 acidity.
But you can also use that same canner to water bath also.

Here is the link I use for processing times.
I simply cant remember everything.
http://nchfp.uga.edu/how/can3_tomato.html
What you will find out is the processing time is longer for water bath in all cases.
Plus the amount of salt is up to you.

Lemon or lime juice from a bottle never from the fruit is what you would want to use but it will add the taste to it.
Citric acid has no taste but is tart.

Worth
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Old August 15, 2015   #3
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Worth, keep in mind that the times determined for pressure canning tomatoes includes using lemon juice/citric acid for safety. Without it, the processing times could be longer.

I prefer the simplicity of water bath canning when that is an option, compared to pressure canning - watching for steady stream of steam, venting 10 mins, bringing up to pressure, maintaining the proper pressure for the complete amt of time, allowing pressure canner to drop to zero pressure, etc.
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Old August 15, 2015   #4
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Worth, keep in mind that the times determined for pressure canning tomatoes includes using lemon juice/citric acid for safety. Without it, the processing times could be longer.

I prefer the simplicity of water bath canning when that is an option, compared to pressure canning - watching for steady stream of steam, venting 10 mins, bringing up to pressure, maintaining the proper pressure for the complete amt of time, allowing pressure canner to drop to zero pressure, etc.
Here is the reason.
Worth
http://nchfp.uga.edu/publications/nc...cidifying.html
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Old August 15, 2015   #5
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MY procedure is to over temperature.
Does cooking kill Cl. botulinum and its toxin?
Normal thorough cooking (pasteurisation: 70°C 2min or equivalent) will kill Cl.botulinum bacteria but not its spores. To kill the spores of Cl.botulinum a sterilisation process equivalent to 121°C for 3 min is required. The botulinum toxin itself is inactivated (denatured) rapidly at temperatures greater than 80°C .

Pressure canning at 15 PSI for 15 minutes will kill all potentially harmful bacteria. Fifteen (15 PSI) insures a temperature of 121C. Timing for 15 minutes is five times the required time to kill all. Overkill if you like.
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Old August 15, 2015   #6
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Durgan, you make these statements as if they are fact, so I would be interested in knowing what you base them on. Links? Citations? There are other factors that come into play. I have never read that only 3 mins is necessary to kill bot spores. And when does one start timing the 3 mins? Food density is just one issue that can affect heat penetration, so without a probe in the middle of the jar, how do you know when it reaches temp in the interior? NCHFP has already done all of this research, so I follow their guidelines as tested and scientifically sound.

No where is 15 pounds of pressure advised except for those who live at an altitude that require it to reach 240F. So perhaps your juice method is overkill. Obviously, you are free to process your food as you please. But if you want to post your method as safe for everyone, then please back it up with some evidence.
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Old August 15, 2015   #7
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Originally Posted by coronabarb View Post
Durgan, you make these statements as if they are fact, so I would be interested in knowing what you base them on. Links? Citations? There are other factors that come into play. I have never read that only 3 mins is necessary to kill bot spores. And when does one start timing the 3 mins? Food density is just one issue that can affect heat penetration, so without a probe in the middle of the jar, how do you know when it reaches temp in the interior? NCHFP has already done all of this research, so I follow their guidelines as tested and scientifically sound.

No where is 15 pounds of pressure advised except for those who live at an altitude that require it to reach 240F. So perhaps your juice method is overkill. Obviously, you are free to process your food as you please. But if you want to post your method as safe for everyone, then please back it up with some evidence.
Does cooking kill Cl. botulinum and its toxin?
Normal thorough cooking (pasteurisation: 70°C 2min or equivalent) will kill Cl.botulinum bacteria but not its spores. To kill the spores of Cl.botulinum a sterilisation process equivalent to 121°C for 3 min is required. The botulinum toxin itself is inactivated (denatured) rapidly at temperatures greater than 80°C .

https://www.fsai.ie/faqs/botulism.html
Foodborne Botulism
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Old August 15, 2015   #8
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https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...99804247,d.eXY
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Old August 15, 2015   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by coronabarb View Post
Durgan, you make these statements as if they are fact, so I would be interested in knowing what you base them on. Links? Citations? There are other factors that come into play. I have never read that only 3 mins is necessary to kill bot spores. And when does one start timing the 3 mins? Food density is just one issue that can affect heat penetration, so without a probe in the middle of the jar, how do you know when it reaches temp in the interior? NCHFP has already done all of this research, so I follow their guidelines as tested and scientifically sound.

No where is 15 pounds of pressure advised except for those who live at an altitude that require it to reach 240F. So perhaps your juice method is overkill. Obviously, you are free to process your food as you please. But if you want to post your method as safe for everyone, then please back it up with some evidence.

And when does one start timing the 3 mins?
My method of Pressure canning is:
Homogeneous material, drinkable liquid. Seen liters in Canner. Apply heat without the weight in place until steam is streaming out the port. This usually take 30 to 45 minutes. Install weight. Let pressure build up to 15 PSI. Start timing, in my case 15 minutes. Allow to decompress naturally with time. Check seals, if tight then store. If not sealed redo or consume within a few days.

I have also checked the temperature with a http://www.labdepotinc.com/Product_D...pid~13525.aspx Sterilization Indicators
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Old August 15, 2015   #10
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I just did an experiment I will never do again.
I put a very wee bit of citric acid on my tongue maybe 4 granules.

Worth
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Old August 15, 2015   #11
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Originally Posted by Worth1 View Post
I just did an experiment I will never do again.
I put a very wee bit of citric acid on my tongue maybe 4 granules.

Worth
Worth ... Thanks I needed that
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Old August 15, 2015   #12
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Originally Posted by Worth1 View Post
I just did an experiment I will never do again.
I put a very wee bit of citric acid on my tongue maybe 4 granules.

Worth
Reminds me of that old Cheech & Chong routine. Taste..... Good thing we didn't step in it....
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