Too Hot for Fall Gardening

[AlittleSalt]

For years, I have wondered why I don't see any fall vegetable gardens here where we live. The huge farms where hundreds and even thousands of acres are planted with corn and grain in spring - they don't plant anything in fall. The gardens are just dried up plant refuse covered in dust/dirt.

For the past 4 years, I have stubbornly planted Black Eyed Peas in fall, and while they don't do as well as the ones planted in spring - they do produce. This fall, I chose to plant all sorts of vegetables. I had left over seed varieties that I don't want to plant next spring, so no loss if it doesn't work. I planted turnips, beets, spinach, kale, potatoes, etc... They came up really quick 3-4 days later!

The next day, they shriveled and died. The day after that - you couldn't tell anything had ever been there. If I were to take pictures, all you would see is dirt. At first, I thought they died because the high temperatures are still from 88-92F and the sun was just too strong. Then I took off my socks and shoes and walked in the garden. The soil is still so hot that it was like walking on a summer beach.

Sooooo, that's why nobody plants vegetable gardens around here in Texas.

I did plant Green Beans and Sweet Peas in shaded areas and so far they look nice and so do the Black Eyed Peas that can take the sun and hot soil a lot better than other vegetables.

Below are two pictures showing what happens to plants. They are morning glories that I raked into the full sun garden. We grow them on a east facing fence and after pulling them up and off the fence - I rake the dirt to help get out the seeds that fell off. Otherwise, next spring we would have hundreds of morning glories growing as unwanted weeds.

[Worth1]

Salt,
First we have to look at what fall and spring means and why they are.
They are the equinox meaning that the first day of fall and the first day of spring are when the sun is equal day and night over the equator.
The summer and winter solstice is when we have our longest and shortest day.
The arctic and antarctic circle is where for one day the sun stays up for 24 hours and farther north it starts adding days.

I know you probably already know this but it is for everyone's benefit to understand.
Now lets move on to the so called fall garden in Texas and the south.

Up north the sun isn't as strong and therefor not as hot on the soil.
In the south it is stronger and heats up the soil more.

In many of the sites they speak of the fall garden and say to plan and start after the summer solstice in July.
This just happens to be the hottest time of the year here in Texas on through September.
I would suggest people in this part of Texas start a fall garden at the time of the fall equinox.
This way you are giving the soil time to cool off and the sun to be less strong.
Another problem is nature itself.
Plants in nature start growing in the spring and make seeds for next year not for the fall.
Plants know the sun is getting weaker and daylight is getting shorter.
Right now in the fall the cedar elm is putting out seeds like crazy because they are native to here.
Other plants are starting to grow like mad because they are not from here and confused.
Like I said before plant cold weather crops that are expensive in the store like endive and snow peas and plant this month or a little later.
Also you have to look at the long term weather for your area.
Not every year will be the same.
Where I live sometimes we have little or no freeze and other years we get very hard freezes.
Carrots so far have handled anything the winter has thrown at them but they really take off in the spring.
And guess when, thats right after the winter solstice.
The same with onions and many others.
A friend of mine asked me if I wanted their left over cabbage plants and I declined.
I told her I was going to grow snow peas if anything.

Worth

[kayrobbins]

My favorite gardening is the fall. I can get in a 2nd crop of tomatoes if I have the seedlings ready to plant in late August. My chard, collards and kale are ready to be planted now followed by broccoli in two weeks. I use to try to plant broccoli in September but it is still just too hot. November is the time I plant snow peas and english peas.

[Cole_Robbie]

I'm still searching for the best way to use my high tunnel to produce a profitable fall crop. Last year I planted early determinate tomatoes, and they sold well because they were about a month earlier than outdoor ones. This year, I planted indeterminates, and they are still alive and producing, but the tomatoes are all too small to be very marketable. I think the roots of my giant plants outgrew the size of my beds.

Next year, I will probably go back to determinates. I'll plant in April, harvest in June, then cull and replant in July, which would give me Sept-Oct production. I would not have high tunnel tomatoes in July and August, but those are the two months that they are the hardest to sell because of being so abundant, plus my outdoor plants would be producing.

[Redbaron]

Salt,
A thick mulch on the garden will lower the soil temp by 20 degrees or more. That way you don't burn up your plants.

[AlittleSalt]

Originally Posted by Redbaron

Salt,
A thick mulch on the garden will lower the soil temp by 20 degrees or more. That way you don't burn up your plants.

Gathering a LOT of mulch is high on my list for gardening next year. Luckily, we have a lot to gather on this 10 acres. There is an Elm thicket just beyond what I call our backyard. I haven't done research on using dry elm leaves as mulch yet, but it seems like those small leaves would be good to use. Most of our property has post and black oak trees. Until I can afford a chipper-shredder I'll have to use leaves as mulch.

[Worth1]

Salt the elm leaves work great and brake down fast.
That is what my whole yard is.
I dont even bother raking them I just sweep them off the drive and let them stay in the yard.

I have one wild pepper plant I pile the leaves up around every year.
The thing is doing great.
They are also what I mulch every other plant in the yard with to protect from freezing.

Worth

[Cole_Robbie]

It's pignut, hickory, and black walnut that you have to keep away from plants, right? They have a growth regulating hormone that will stunt whatever they touch.

I'm reading that Oak leaves make the best mulch: due to their carbon to nitrogen ration they take the longest to break down. Elm lasts about half as long, but still works.

[Worth1]

Originally Posted by Cole_Robbie

It's pignut, hickory, and black walnut that you have to keep away from plants, right? They have a growth regulating hormone that will stunt whatever they touch.

I'm reading that Oak leaves make the best mulch: due to their carbon to nitrogen ration they take the longest to break down. Elm lasts about half as long, but still works.

Oak Leaves also contain tannic acid which will help keep the PH down where tomatoes like it.

Worth

[AlittleSalt]

Originally Posted by Worth1

Oak Leaves also contain tannic acid which will help keep the PH down where tomatoes like it.

Worth

The past 4 years of experience of digging in oak leaves without matting them causes the soil to become spongy instead of how it is outside the garden. Outside the garden it can be wet or dry and it is like walking on dusty concrete. Inside the garden, wet or dry, you now leave deep shoe/footprints. I measured several footprints and of course, the more each person weighs - the more they sank. I at 6'-1" - 230lbs left footprints just over an inch deep, whereas my wife at 120lbs left footprints near 1/2 inch, and our oldest grandchild (5 years old) left footprints only 1/4 deep except where he ran which were deeper. This past two months are very good examples. It has been hot and very dry, and yet, the above examples are still true.

The soil in the garden after years of incorporating oak leave smells like rich garden soil. The dirt outside the garden smells like dust. I have also noticed that oak leaves turned into the soil decompose very rapidly compared to leaf piles above ground..

[b54red]

Another big problem with fall gardens in the south is you never know for sure when fall will get here. Some years the cool nights come as early as September and other years we may not see cold nights until well into December. Broccoli is one of the trickiest to plant because if the temps are too warm it will head almost immediately. I now wait til well into October or even sometimes as late as November to set out broccoli in order to get larger heads. Tomatoes can be set out anytime from July through September but you never know if the heat of late summer will kill them or if an early freeze will leave you with a pile of frozen green tomatoes.

I now just plant when I want and sometimes it works out and other times it doesn't but stressing out over getting things set out by a certain date down here is not worth the effort. Building some tunnels to protect fall crops during the coldest days of winter is worth the effort for crops like broccoli, cauliflower, lettuce, spinach, and rutabagas. I don't make the same effort with tomatoes and peppers because there is only a short gap between when the fall plants die and it is time to start seed for the spring plants and I need that time to prepare the beds.

Bill

[Redbaron]

Originally Posted by b54red

Another big problem with fall gardens in the south is you never know for sure when fall will get here.
Bill

YEP

Last year I had my whole fall garden freeze. The flat of broccoli were all about the size of a quarter. Just a few weeks and I would have made out like a bandit. Any other year and I would have been golden. One year I had tomatoes still producing at Christmas! But last year the first full solid freeze came many weeks early.

[newgardener_tx]

I have mustard, kale, broccoli (from transplants), kohlrabi, carrots, spinach, four kinds of radish and all kinds of lettuce in the garden now. Most of the leafy veggies only do well in Fall. Several tomato plants too (planted early Sept, probably no harvest). Several pepper and eggplants survived from the heat.
Spinach, cilantro, turnips, radishes really do well in fall.

[Worth1]

Originally Posted by newgardener_tx

I have mustard, kale, broccoli (from transplants), kohlrabi, carrots, spinach, four kinds of radish and all kinds of lettuce in the garden now. Most of the leafy veggies only do well in Fall. Several tomato plants too (planted early Sept, probably no harvest). Several pepper and eggplants survived from the heat.
Spinach, cilantro, turnips, radishes really do well in fall.

So true no reason you cant have fresh lettuce all winter long sometimes.