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Old May 27, 2016   #61
MrSalvage
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Originally Posted by Rajun Gardener View Post
I'm glad you have time to tinker and get it right.

I've been playing too, I have a dutch bucket hydro system and have a PPM meter so I did some testing. I hope this makes sense

I bought some bulk MG, it's blue compared to the green stuff in the bottle and twice as strong. The blue is 24-8-16


The bottle refills are 12-4-8


The MG Tomato food is 18-18-21


I'm not exactly sure how PPM changes with different strengths but it took 6 tbsp of the blue MG mixed with a little water to reach the 450PPM that matches the prepacked bottle.

The instructions on the blue stuff


I went out and started testing all the mixed solutions
I set up the feeder like directions say for the feeder and tested the supplied bottle and out the hose the PPM is 519
I then mixed a batch of the blue stuff, 1 tbsp-1 gallon of water and it tested 885, this is closer to what my hydroponic mix is but maybe it's too strong for the garden to feed more than once a week because we already have most of the requirements to grow compared to hydroponics soil-less mix but I'm just guessing.
I changed the solution in the bottle and ran that home mix of the blue MG I mixed earlier, it was only 186. This should confirm that the fertilizer in the bottles are made from different stuff and I don't have a meter to test so from here I'm winging it.
I mixed another 4.5 tbsp and then it tested 265
I added another 4.5 and it went up to 366
That's a total of 15 tbsp to get 366, I'm guessing another 6 tbsp and it would reach the same PPM as the bottle but about half as much as the recommeded mix in the directions.
I used 1/2 lb of the 1.5lb box I bought for $5.00, that $1.66 for 40 gallons

I haven't been using MG so I can't say if works good mixing it lighter than recommended. I'm sure that most of us amend the soil before planting and that should help to not need a full strength mix as a weekly feeding.

I think it'll work great as a light feeding once a week and I'm gonna start off with 10tbsp and see how it goes. Thoughts?
I just want to confirm what your saying. It's been a lot of work getting to this stage and i don't want to burn my plants up.

If i buy the 24-8-16 and add 1/2 pound to a gallon of water. Then fill up 8 used pint bottles with it. I should have about the same mix as whats in the original bottles. Or are you saying that it would be half strength of whats in the bottles and i could feed weekly with it?

Thanks for your time.
Bill
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Old May 27, 2016   #62
Salsacharley
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Last year I drilled a hole in the bottom of an empty refill bottle and filled it with water. I then installed it in the feeder (faucet type) and began filling 5 gal buckets to see how many gallons it would take to empty the bottle. It took a little over 8 buckets, or about 42 gallons. This converts to 42 tbsp of MG blue stuff, or 21 oz, or about 1 1/3 lb, so we are in the ball park. I used this ratio to put Texas Tomato Food in the refill bottle and it worked so-so, but I had to constantly go shake up the bottle because the TTF would clog it up in about 5 minutes. I finally gave up on trying to run TTF in it.

This year I have set up a drip system for 150 plants and I'm running the factory refill bottles through the faucet feeder into the drip system. My pressure is quite low and I've run the system for about 1 1/2 hours and my bottle is only about 1/3 empty. The feeder only clicks about ever 2-3 seconds whereas it was clicking faster than once per second when it wasn't connected to the drip system. My drippers are emitting a little less than 1/2 gallon per hour each. That works out to about 75 gallons per hour for all 150. So the feeder through the drip system is only putting out about 1/3 the concentration of fertilizer. I am confused about this.
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Old May 27, 2016   #63
Rajun Gardener
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MrSalvage

I mixed the MG in the box per instructions 1 tbsp-1 gallon of water and tested it with my PPM meter and it measured 885. I then continued to mix it stronger, filled the bottle with it till I got close to that measurement and finally quit when it reached 366. I'm not sure if that is a smart idea to mix that much, I'm worried it might kill the plant but the test show otherwise.

I was trying to get close to what the prepacked bottles measured and that was 519 using the feeder as directed but stopped when I got tired of removing the bottle, remove the cap, empty, add more MG, mix, refill the bottle and test it again.

FYI, I didn't mix it in a gallon container, I used an empty Coffeemate creamer container which is a little less than a half gallon so you should be fine mixing it in a gallon container, that will make it weaker.

Like Salsacharley I too tested how much water run through the feeder it takes to use all the fertilizer and I came up with 40 gallons. I mixed some red food coloring to do the test. So if we go by volume then it should take 40 TBSP for the recommended mix but using half will be closer to what comes in the bottles.

BUT....The blue mix is twice as strong as what comes in the bottle and that's what has me scared to use it at that strength.

I did use the final mix at 50% strength on my tomatoes and they're still fine. When I say 50%, I mean I filled the bottle 1/2 with the mix and 1/2 with water.

So basically I wrote all of this to say that if you use 7tbsp in the feeder the plants will be fine
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Old May 31, 2016   #64
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Side story:

I ended up getting mine from Walmart and it came with 1 bottle of fert. They were sold out of all the dang refills. So today we took a ride of to Southern States to buy a sprayer for some DE and they had some refills on sale.

It wasn't the good stuff for veg or maters. All they had were singles that came in the four packs of all purpose. However they must have dropped a pallet or something. All the bottles of all purpose were just laying all kinds of different ways in one spot. Then some were also off to the side in a mater flat or something.

Anyway the girl said the were .25 each. I said ok and we put 20 bottles in the cart. On check out sure enough the girl rang them up at .25 each. So 5 bucks total for 20.

Me and my girl got back out to the truck loaded it up with all of our goodies. Right before she cranked the key i said man that's a heck of a deal.

So asked her to go back in to the store and clean them out. Well we ended up with 64 bottles for $16.00 total. lol go figure...
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Old May 31, 2016   #65
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MrSalvage

I mixed the MG in the box per instructions 1 tbsp-1 gallon of water and tested it with my PPM meter and it measured 885. I then continued to mix it stronger, filled the bottle with it till I got close to that measurement and finally quit when it reached 366. I'm not sure if that is a smart idea to mix that much, I'm worried it might kill the plant but the test show otherwise.

I was trying to get close to what the prepacked bottles measured and that was 519 using the feeder as directed but stopped when I got tired of removing the bottle, remove the cap, empty, add more MG, mix, refill the bottle and test it again.

FYI, I didn't mix it in a gallon container, I used an empty Coffeemate creamer container which is a little less than a half gallon so you should be fine mixing it in a gallon container, that will make it weaker.

Like Salsacharley I too tested how much water run through the feeder it takes to use all the fertilizer and I came up with 40 gallons. I mixed some red food coloring to do the test. So if we go by volume then it should take 40 TBSP for the recommended mix but using half will be closer to what comes in the bottles.

BUT....The blue mix is twice as strong as what comes in the bottle and that's what has me scared to use it at that strength.

I did use the final mix at 50% strength on my tomatoes and they're still fine. When I say 50%, I mean I filled the bottle 1/2 with the mix and 1/2 with water.

So basically I wrote all of this to say that if you use 7tbsp in the feeder the plants will be fine
Rajun, Thank you for your response. I guess i will be mixing up a bunch of different strengths based on what all guys have posted. I am def, gonna hack this thing.

I still need to get a back flow preventer and a filter then I will be good to go. I am not trusting Scott's with my well water.
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Old May 31, 2016   #66
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Rajun, Thank you for your response. I guess i will be mixing up a bunch of different strengths based on what all guys have posted. I am def, gonna hack this thing.

I still need to get a back flow preventer and a filter then I will be good to go. I am not trusting Scott's with my well water.

When your ready to talk back flow prevention let me know.
Worth
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Old May 31, 2016   #67
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Hey Worth, Hope you guys are okay down there! My son who lives north of Dallas says it's raining like crazy.

Now, I know you said somewhere that the MG Injector had a backflow preventer all ready. I am also sure there must be some sort of screen in it as well.

Anyway I just don't trust the thing Worth. So i want to beef up the system a little bit for our own protection. So yep lets hash that out right here is this thread. All the info on this unit should remain here.

Thanks man
Bill
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Old May 31, 2016   #68
Rajun Gardener
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MrSalvage View Post
Side story:

I ended up getting mine from Walmart and it came with 1 bottle of fert. They were sold out of all the dang refills. So today we took a ride of to Southern States to buy a sprayer for some DE and they had some refills on sale.

It wasn't the good stuff for veg or maters. All they had were singles that came in the four packs of all purpose. However they must have dropped a pallet or something. All the bottles of all purpose were just laying all kinds of different ways in one spot. Then some were also off to the side in a mater flat or something.

Anyway the girl said the were .25 each. I said ok and we put 20 bottles in the cart. On check out sure enough the girl rang them up at .25 each. So 5 bucks total for 20.

Me and my girl got back out to the truck loaded it up with all of our goodies. Right before she cranked the key i said man that's a heck of a deal.

So asked her to go back in to the store and clean them out. Well we ended up with 64 bottles for $16.00 total. lol go figure...
That's a Hella good deal, I would've done the same. Keep us posted on the results and modifications you make to the mix.
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Old May 31, 2016   #69
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Originally Posted by MrSalvage View Post
Hey Worth, Hope you guys are okay down there! My son who lives north of Dallas says it's raining like crazy.

Now, I know you said somewhere that the MG Injector had a backflow preventer all ready. I am also sure there must be some sort of screen in it as well.

Anyway I just don't trust the thing Worth. So i want to beef up the system a little bit for our own protection. So yep lets hash that out right here is this thread. All the info on this unit should remain here.

Thanks man
Bill
Home Depot started selling most of the stuff for drip tape irrigation, filters, backflow and pressure reducers.
http://www.homedepot.com/p/Rain-Bird...g&gclsrc=aw.ds
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Old May 31, 2016   #70
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Okay you have some options the cheap vacume breaker the put on faucets.
And good vacuum breakers.

With a vacuum breaker they need to be I think at least 18 inches higher than your highest emitter.

I dont think you want pay what I paid for mine, it is rated for a chemical plant.
Here it is.
http://www.sprinklerwarehouse.com/Fe.../fe860-100.htm

Here is what I am thinking about but it isn't for your main line just for the water going to you fertilizer system.

http://www.sprinklerwarehouse.com/Aq...-p/avb-075.htm


Any time you connect chemicals to the water supply you should have these.
You are on a well so if it contaminates your well you are screwed.

Look up Plumbing cross connection.

Worth
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Old June 1, 2016   #71
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Okay you have some options the cheap vacume breaker the put on faucets.
And good vacuum breakers.

With a vacuum breaker they need to be I think at least 18 inches higher than your highest emitter.

I dont think you want pay what I paid for mine, it is rated for a chemical plant.
Here it is.
http://www.sprinklerwarehouse.com/Fe.../fe860-100.htm

Here is what I am thinking about but it isn't for your main line just for the water going to you fertilizer system.

http://www.sprinklerwarehouse.com/Aq...-p/avb-075.htm


Any time you connect chemicals to the water supply you should have these.
You are on a well so if it contaminates your well you are screwed.

Look up Plumbing cross connection.

Worth
The second one Worth for the ten bucks. Does that one also need to be 18 inches above the emitter?

Also with my emitter being the end of my hose line. (I don't have any emitters yet) Does that change anything? I might need to draw a picture to better explain what I am thinking.

Probably set it up like a vent stack mounted on a 2x4 in the yard.
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Old June 1, 2016   #72
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The second one Worth for the ten bucks. Does that one also need to be 18 inches above the emitter?

Also with my emitter being the end of my hose line. (I don't have any emitters yet) Does that change anything? I might need to draw a picture to better explain what I am thinking.

Probably set it up like a vent stack mounted on a 2x4 in the yard.
Okay the first one that is expensive only has to be above ground, this way water can drip out of the bottom.

At any time the pressure on the supply side is lower than the down stream side it will dump water.

It doesn't matter where the emitters are at.

The vacuum breaker can be on a pole as long as it is before the source of contamination (MG do hickey) and around a foot to 18 inches higher than the highest emitter.

As was said the4y have a lot of this stuff at the big box store but you may be miss led or get the wrong thing or junk.
I have bought all of it at one time or another.
The have check valves they sell, these will not work or at least not listed to be used on a system such as yours.
This all seems like over kill but it really isn't considering what can and has gone wrong.

Here is a link that explains the types and what they are used for and why.
I had rather you understand they why and how as to just be lead to the right thing.

Go to the button and they have a list in the subject.
This way you will know and wont be misled at the big box store and get the wrong thing.
http://www.sprinklerwarehouse.com/Ba...nters-s/21.htm
Here they want us to use at least a hose bib vacuum breaker.

I am going to put out one more example as to why and when you would need one.
These examples are in the searches cor cross connection I asked you to look for.

Lets say old Bubba has a big tank half full of hog flop.
He wants to add water to it and fill the tank up for what ever reason.
He is fine as long as he is holding the hose above the surface of the water and hog flop in the tank.

He hears the phone ring and puts the hose in the tank to go answer the phone.
Now the end of the hose in in the hog flop water.

While he is on the phone the water main breaks or his well pump stops and the foot valve fails in the well.
Now all of the hog flop water is going to be siphoned back into the water supply.
So to make it simple these devices are as a last resort back up if all else fails.

I am a huge proponent of back flow devices and the right kind.

I can assure you it isn't just some silly regulation and I am sure they started doing it tears ago because of some bad experiences.
In many case as here in Texas that well may be on your place and your well.
But it is part of an aquifer that covers a huge part of Texas.

Sermon over.

Worth
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Old June 24, 2016   #73
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Introducing my latest Miraclegro LiquaFeed Hijack.

I have switched ferts from TTF to Hydro Gardens 4-18-38 + MGSO4 and CaNO3 only because AKMark (and look at his stuff!) uses it, and it dissolves beautifully in concentrated form. I still love TTF but it is very labor intensive for my cheapo setup requiring manual watering since it won't perform well in the LiquaFeed system.

My rig consists of a reusable grocery bag with 2 holes cut in the bottom hanging from the top of my trellis system. I put 2 empty TTF 1 gal bottles upside down in the bags so the openings extrude through the holes. For each bottle I drilled a 7/8" hole in the bottle's lids and inserted rubber grommets. Into the grommets I inserted 1/2" tubing with a male end cap attached. To the male end cap I attached a PVC valve, and to the bottom of the valve I attached 5/8" OD/ 1/2" ID clear tubing. The bottom end of the tubing is inserted into the top of an empty LiquaFeed bottle that I also drilled a 7/8" hole in, with a grommet inserted.

The idea is to be able to provide continuous feeding for at least 2 days before refilling is required.

I have 2 significant bugs to work out, and any suggestions are most welcome. First, the connection at the LiquaFeed bottles leak due to the pressure being to great for the weak grommet connection. I need to get a stronger seal at the bottle connection.

Second, there is no venting for the draining of the 1 gal supply bottles as they feed into the LiquaFeed bottles so a significant vacuum forms, causing very restricted drainage.

So there ya go!
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Old June 25, 2016   #74
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Old June 25, 2016   #75
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Salsa you spent more time and trouble connecting to the bottles than you would have by cutting the bottle threaded top off and epoxying it to a piece of 1 inch SCH 40 PVC.

Worth
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