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Old January 21, 2017   #31
Worth1
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Originally Posted by Cole_Robbie View Post
Is the plastic on pliers supposed to keep you from getting shocked? I thought it was just there for grip. I remember as a kid having a lawn mower that wouldn't die unless the spark plug wire was removed. I picked up a pair of pliers to do it, thinking the insulation would protect me...and shocked myself quite effectively.
It will keep you from getting shocked on lower voltage but it is not what it is intended for.
BUT far better than bare metal by all means.
Now that lawn mower spark plug is very high voltage and another subject I will deal with later.
It puts out thousands of volts.
If the plastic has the slightest crack in it the spark will jump to you.
They do have high voltage tools that are listed for this use as an electrician.
Or you can get the listed handles/grips and put them on your tools.

The whole concept of voltage spark and what it takes is way beyond what a home owner needs to know to fix stuff around the house with 120 VAC at 60 HZ.
My welder has a high frequency arc starter on it that makes lightning.
I didn't have the ground hooked up lighting was jumping everywhere and people were running.
But now we are getting into the Tesla coil and tower.

If you look at wire it has volts on it like 300 or 600 volts.
This is NOT what it carries it is the insulation resistance (IR) value of the insulation.
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Old January 21, 2017   #32
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Default Calculations.

Calculations every home owner should know.

The formula for Watts is Volts times Amps.
The formula for Volts is Watts divided by Amps.
The formula for Amps is Watts divided by Volts.

Here is an example.
My blender has a full load draw of 600 watts.
If I were to need to know the amps I would do as said above.
600/120 is 5 amps.
I have a 20 amp breaker so I could run four of them at full load and maybe not trip the breaker.
The outlet is only rated for 15 amps or if a switched outlet the same thing on the switch.

But now lets say I have the dreaded cheap a$$ed octopus contraption all of this stuff is hooked up to.
It may only be rated for 5 amps alone.
You have now over loaded the wiring to the wall outlet your breaker will never trip but the wiring will melt down.
Plus your outlet is over loaded.
Now you have a potential for fire.
You see math can keep you safe.
They never teach this in school just how to count slices of pie and money.

All they say on the TV and warnings is dont overload stuff.
They dont say how to calculate things so you know what your are doing.
They treat people like idiots and it ticks me off.
We all went to grade school we learned how to do math basic math at that.
We were never given a practical way to use it.
Sadly I had to teach myself later in life.

All people do is see watts Amps and volts on stuff what the devil does it mean?
Oh well I dont need to know it works now (((watt)))) is that smell?

Worth
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Old January 21, 2017   #33
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Default Switches.

Switches and what they do.
Here is an example of a crazy switch and what it is.
You look at it and you see where it has 6 connectors on it two of which are hidden from view.
Plus it says on on, what the----!!!
Don't worry it isn't that complicated.




What you have is a double throw double pole switch.
The center is where you hook up the hot coming in.
The other two on one side are where it would come out depending one which way the switch is flipped.
So if it is flipped one way one leg is hot and the other is off.
If it is flipped the other way the same but the other leg is now on or hot.
The other side with its three legs are independent of the side you are looking at.
Each side is called a pole.
Some of the switches have a center location so both ends are off for both poles.
If you wanted to you can use this switch to reverse polarity on a DC currant motor to make it run the other way.
A switch something like this is what they use so you can turn the light on at one end of a room and back off at the other.
It is called a three way switch.
Here is the best pictuer I have found that shows what is going on.
If you look the contactor will drop if you turn it off.
But if you go to the other end of the hall and drop the other contactor you now have turned it back on.
Simple.
This is why you wont see on or off on these switches.

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Old January 21, 2017   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cole_Robbie View Post
Is the plastic on pliers supposed to keep you from getting shocked? I thought it was just there for grip. I remember as a kid having a lawn mower that wouldn't die unless the spark plug wire was removed. I picked up a pair of pliers to do it, thinking the insulation would protect me...and shocked myself quite effectively.
The voltage at the spark plug is WAY up there -- 10,000V or more. It will surface conduct over an insulator if there's dirt or damp and no better path. Home voltage is much lower so the insulators much more effective.

An better way to stop a a spark ignited engine is to ground the plug electrode to the block. Place point of screwdriver against block, then shaft against the spark circuit. Gives the juice an easier path since there's no gap to jump.
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Old January 21, 2017   #35
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I am liking this home electrical course but before I attempt changing out the switch, I need a course on how to use the multi-meter. I should of paid good attention when my Dad was trying to explain it.
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Old January 21, 2017   #36
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There is no need to use a multi-meter to change out the switch, unless you are using it to detect any hot wires.

If it's a typical multi-meter, the black lead plugs into the Ground socket and the red lead into the VAC socket. If there's a dial switch on the front set it to some VAC number greater then 120.

Test whether you have it set up correctly by sticking the probes in a live electric socket and read what it says. Analog or digital should read somewhere between 110 and 120. Some analog meters will have multiple scales, so find the right one to read.

Then you can repeat on the switch when you pull it out. I would do it with the breaker on so you can prove to yourself that you're reading the right thing. Then turn the breaker off; you should see that the same reading is now zero.

IMO, it's much easier to use a non-contact voltage detector, but it might not be convenient to acquire one - and not really necessary.
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Old January 21, 2017   #37
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When I see posts like this I cringe (not that the author does not know how to do things, but because people interpret written words differently).

If you don't know Neutral from Ground from Hot --- PLEASE GET A QUALIFIED ELECTRICIAN. The few bucks you save could mean your house and memories up in flames.

Please be advised that nothing found here has necessarily been reviewed by people with the expertise required to provide you with complete, accurate or reliable information.

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Old January 21, 2017   #38
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Originally Posted by dmforcier View Post
There is no need to use a multi-meter to change out the switch, unless you are using it to detect any hot wires.

If it's a typical multi-meter, the black lead plugs into the Ground socket and the red lead into the VAC socket. If there's a dial switch on the front set it to some VAC number greater then 120.

Test whether you have it set up correctly by sticking the probes in a live electric socket and read what it says. Analog or digital should read somewhere between 110 and 120. Some analog meters will have multiple scales, so find the right one to read.

Then you can repeat on the switch when you pull it out. I would do it with the breaker on so you can prove to yourself that you're reading the right thing. Then turn the breaker off; you should see that the same reading is now zero.

IMO, it's much easier to use a non-contact voltage detector, but it might not be convenient to acquire one - and not really necessary.
You need a multi meter to test continuity.
With out it you are lost.


Quote:
Originally Posted by rhines81 View Post
When I see posts like this I cringe (not that the author does not know how to do things, but because people interpret written words differently).

If you don't know Neutral from Ground from Hot --- PLEASE GET A QUALIFIED ELECTRICIAN. The few bucks you save could mean your house and memories up in flames.

Please be advised that nothing found here has necessarily been reviewed by people with the expertise required to provide you with complete, accurate or reliable information.

I think 26 years as a licensed fire alarm tech and working as a union electrician for some part of that time might have some weight on the subject.
Plus a card holding NICET LEVEL II certification where you have to pass test to prove you know what you are doing.
Before all of that I worked in the field also in high voltage in the oil field wiring up pump jack motors
I do find your comment rather insulting considering my background.
41 years to be exact including school in the Marines too.
Some how I feel I have been called a home DIY hack.
What else can I say.

Worth
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Last edited by Worth1; January 21, 2017 at 08:24 PM.
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Old January 21, 2017   #39
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I do find your comment rather insulting considering my background.
Whatever your background, whatever your expertise ... I was not speaking of that.

I even qualified my comment by saying "not that the author does not know how to do things, but because people interpret written words differently".

To instruct people on wiring practices when you know gosh darnoodley well they might even try this at home ... could be irresponsible.

It's one thing to give recipe or cooking information, it's another thing to give plant and seed growing info - but when it comes to "do-it-yourself" wiring ... makes me cringe - it's a serious safety matter - that is all.

There was NO OFFENSE ON THE AUTHOR OF THE THREAD INTENDED ... just a warning for those that follow the advice.
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Old January 21, 2017   #40
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This could be said for the instruction on the package.
I will have you know that every company I have ever worked for said I was one of the best trainers they ever had.
I dont even think you read half of what I wrote with all of the safety tips and concerns even if you didn't do it yourself.
I spent hours thinking about what to put here and more putting it down.
Good lord what do you want?
The products are out there for people to buy.
All I am doing is trying to help people and keep them from burning the house down or getting hurt.
Go ahead and cringe all you want hell you can even grimace if you so desire.

Worth
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Old January 21, 2017   #41
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All I am doing is trying to help people and keep them from burning the house down or getting hurt.
Go ahead and cringe all you want hell you can even grimace if you so desire.

Worth
I guess we have the same goal. Are you monitoring the other poster's advice that answer questions? Are they as qualified as you? You are actually just a 'random' person on the internet telling people what to do ... you realize that? I'm trying to keep people from burning their house down from following internet bulletin board advice:

You are assuming that people are absorbing 100% of this thread and following each and every instruction .... fact is, they are skimming and absorbing 10%. Oh, I think I'll rewire that 3-way switch ... house burns down the next day. It is a lot of responsibility to think that you told someone how to do something and to trust that they follow your every word. I even see people posting on this thread like it is some kind of 'course work' ...

Advice such as this really does not belong on bulletin boards ... even if you know exactly what you are doing ... your audience is not up for the challenge (even though they think they are). Safety. Safety. Safety.

Where's the grimace icon?

Last edited by rhines81; January 21, 2017 at 09:34 PM. Reason: If you don't know Neutral from Ground from Hot --- PLEASE GET A QUALIFIED ELECTRICIAN.
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Old January 22, 2017   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rhines81 View Post
I guess we have the same goal. Are you monitoring the other poster's advice that answer questions? Are they as qualified as you? You are actually just a 'random' person on the internet telling people what to do ... you realize that? I'm trying to keep people from burning their house down from following internet bulletin board advice:

You are assuming that people are absorbing 100% of this thread and following each and every instruction .... fact is, they are skimming and absorbing 10%. Oh, I think I'll rewire that 3-way switch ... house burns down the next day. It is a lot of responsibility to think that you told someone how to do something and to trust that they follow your every word. I even see people posting on this thread like it is some kind of 'course work' ...

Advice such as this really does not belong on bulletin boards ... even if you know exactly what you are doing ... your audience is not up for the challenge (even though they think they are). Safety. Safety. Safety.

Where's the grimace icon?
ou are actually just a 'random' person on the internet telling people what to do ... you realize that? I'm trying to keep people from burning their house down from following internet bulletin board advice:


You must have the wrong person."This poster" has been a contributing to this forum since its inception 2006 with solid fact based,sound information with no reserve on reward.This man from Texas has bared his soul,his recent loss kindness,knowledge,heart to all of us and this is what he has to read!Maybe the "replier"should read some of that material and learn something other.I would save" face" and dictate a nice apology before it is past the edit time line.I will be the first to apologize for this Worth.The rest of my thoughts will be carried forward via the little triangle below my monikor.As for the replier,I will use the good old advice when I see that name SOB(scroll on by)Keep em coming Worth.
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Old January 22, 2017   #43
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I started this thread to help people in ways they may or may not have thought of.
I will continue to do it.
If someone doesn't like it or they think it is unsafe to read this thread then fine.
You have said your piece or someone has said it for you so move on stop disrupting so the rest of us can learn something.

Worth
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Old January 22, 2017   #44
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Default Wire and size.

Wire size and why not to cheap out.
How to tell if your extension cord is under sized for the task at hand.

But first s story to explain what I mean.
Some years ago we had two pipe threaders set up threading pipe.
When one of the guys flipped his on both threaders slowed way down.
One wasn't even going as fast as it should be.
Plus the cords were hot.
I was doing the electrical on the same job but working around these guys.
I looked and they had 200 feet of 16 gauge extension cord strung out to run these threaders.
Why our company even had these cheap cords I have no idea.
They were going to burn up the threaders and they cost about $6,000 each.
I stopped the job and went and made up some 12 maybe even 10 gauge gauge cords and brought them back to use.
Now the machines ran like they were supposed to.
What was wrong?
The cord was too small for its length.
With this happening several things can happen.
The motor burn up.
The cord burn up.
The wall outlet can get hot.
The breaker trip.
What you have done is over load the circuit.
Why?
All conductors has resistance.
The bigger the conductor the less resistance.
What happens.
The amps go up and the voltage drops.
The conductor itself is a load and has to be calculated in the circuit.
How do you do this.
By the size and the length.
The longer it is the more resistance it has.
This is measured in Ohms.
Ohm's law

The resistor's current I in amps (A) is equal to the resistor's voltage V in volts (V)
divided by the resistance R in ohms (Ω):


The resistor's power consumption P in watts (W) is equal to the resistor's current I in amps (A)
times the resistor's voltage V in volts (V):
P = I × V

The resistor's power consumption P in watts (W) is equal to the square value of the resistor's current I in amps (A)
times the resistor's resistance R in ohms (Ω):
P = I 2 × R

The resistor's power consumption P in watts (W) is equal to the square value of the resistor's voltage V in volts (V)
divided by the resistor's resistance R in ohms (Ω):
P = V 2 / R


There are calculators on line that will do the work for you.
For example my blender at 100 feet of wire would need a 14 gauge wire to run 5 amps at a 5% voltage drop which would be at 114 VAC but starting at 120 VAC.

Here is a helpful link for this.
It is correct.
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=..._FQZ58vS0pfa3w
So far in my searches I have found on line calculators that were broke or way off.
Have no idea what the deal was.
Worth
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Old January 22, 2017   #45
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Now after some more research and the above link this is for permanent wiring.so it isnt ever going to drop wires size down below 14 gauge.

Here is a link Home Depot has for extension cords.
http://www.homedepot.com/c/factors_t...cords_HT_BG_EL

now that we have learned in many ways to find you what an apylance draws we can use the above information to see just how big of a cord we need.
Here is and example.

I have a 50 foot 16 gauge extension cord going to my shed.
all it ever does is turn on two 100 watt light bulbs.
this add up to 1.66 amps the cord is rated for 13 amps.
More that adequate for the use at hand.
In other w0rds no need to drag out the big guns.
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