A few recent F-1 crosses by Tom Wagner

[Tom Wagner]

A FEW TOMATO HYBRIDS MADE BY TOM WAGNER 2006

ID # ---FEMALE ID ---MALE ID

1 -BLACK BRANDYWINE ---BLACK PRINCE
2 -GREEN NAILS ---JIARG WINE
3 -SUN GOLD OP ---MATCHMAKER
4 -SUN GOLD OP ---JUBILEE
5 -YELLOW CURRANT ---APPLE GIRL`
6 -BRANDY STRIPE ---BRANDYWINE
7 -NO JOKE ---MATCHMAKER
8 -RUTGERS SELECT ---BLIMEY
9 -ZAPOTEC ---BRANDY STRIPE
10 -WV 700 ---GREEN ZEBRA
11 -GREENWICH ---GUATAMALA GREEN
12 -AGATE GRAPE ---SUN SUGAR OP
13 -FUZZY YELLOW ZEBRA ---BRANDY STRIPE
14 -GREENWICH ---SUN SUGAR OP
15 -BIG TREE MYSTERY ---CASADY’S FOLLY
16 -PECTIN BOY ---OTV
17 -OREGON SPRING ---ANANAS NOIR (BLACK PINEAPPLE)
18 -MR. STRIPEY ---GREEN ZEBRA
19 -AIRY LEAF ---APPLE GIRL
20 -BLACK PLUM ---CASADY’S FOLLY
21 -TINY TIM ---SOUR BITE
22 -WHITE BEAUTY ---MATCHMAKER
23 -COPI ---BRANDY STRIPE
24 -BRANDY STRIPE ---SOUTHERN NIGHTS
25 -PECTIN WINE ---BRANDY STRIPE
26 -BOY BOA ---BLACK FROM TULA
27 -YELLOW LINER ---MOMOTARO OP
28 -YELLOW LINER ---GREEN ZEBRA
29 -BLACK SEA MAN ---PECTIN WINE
30 -NORA’S YELLOW PEAR ---GREEN ZEBRA
31 -FENCE ROW CHERRY ---JIARG WINE
32 -AMISH PASTE ---JIARG WINE
33 -RIN TIN WIN ---MOMOTARO OP
34 - BLACK BRANDYWINE ---GREEN ZEBRA
35 -MR. STRIPEY ---CASADY’S FOLLY
36 -NORA’S YELLOW PEAR ---AUNT GINNY
37 -SILVERY FIR TREE ---APPLE GIRL
38 -WHITE BEAUTY ---WV 700
39 -GLACIER ---CASADY’S FOLLY
40 -PURPLE PRINCE ---APPLE GIRL
41 -OXHEART ---CASADY’S FOLLY
41 -ODORIKO ---SOUTHERN NIGHTS
42 -TURBAN DIVERSE ---MOMOTARO OP
43 -LINGUISA ---SOUR BITE
44 -SUN GOLD F-1 ---STUPICE
45 -ANANAS NOIR ---GREEN ZEBRA
46 -ZEBRA’S CELEB ---BRANDY STRIPE
47 -SEATTLE’S BEST ---SOUR BITE
48 -CHEROKEE PURPLE ---KATE’S BLIGHTER
49 -YELLOW TREASURE ---BRANDY STRIPE
50 -SUN GOLD F-1 ---WATERSTONE
51 -WHITE BEAUTY ---BRANDY STRIPE
52 -YELLOW PEAR ---SOUR BITE
53 -BOY BOA ---WV 700
54 -BLACK PRINCE ---KATE’S BLIGHTER
55 -ZEBRA COLT ---APPLE GIRL
56 -SOUTHERN NIGHTS ---MATCHMAKER
57 -ZEBRA’S CELEB ---BLIMEY
58 -PECTIN BOY ---OTV
59 -BRANDY STRIPE ---SOUTHERN NIGHTS
60 -GARDEN LIME ---BRANDYWINE
61 -SUN SUGAR F-1 ---STUPICE
62 -OREGON CHERRY ---GREEN ZEBRA
63 -APPLE GIRL ---BRANDY STRIPE
64 -BRANDYWINE JSS ---BRANDY STRIPE
65 -BRANDYWINE IBS. --- BRANDY STRIPE
66 -ELBERTA WINE ---OTV
67 -WHITE BEAUTY ---MOMOTARO OP
68 -VINTAGE WINE F-5 ---PECTIN WINE
69 -AUNT GINNY ---MOMOTARO OP
70 -BOX CAR WILLIE ---OTV
71 -ELBERTA MT. ---YELLOW CURRANT
72 -PURPLE PRINCE ---BRANDY STRIPE
73 -CHRISTMAS TOMATO ---PECTIN WINE
74 -RIN TIN WIN ---GREEN NAILS
75 -GREEN ZEBRA ---CASADY’S FOLLY
76 -GREEN NAILS ---JUBILEE
77 -RED STREAKER ---GREEN ZEBRA
78 -GREEN ZEBRA ---STUPICE
79 -SLAVA ---STUPICE
80 -MOSKVICH ---GREEN ZEBRA
81 -BLACK PLUM ---GREEN ZEBRA
82 -ROPRIECO PASTE ---STUPICE
83 -BLACK PRINCE ---CHEROKEE PURPLE
84 -GLACIER ---GREEN ZEBRA
85 -LEGEND ---KATE’S BLIGHTER
86 -OREGON SPRING ---WATERSTONE
87 -MARMANDE ---STUPICE
88 -BRANDYWINE JSS ---BULK POLLEN
89 -DEBARO ---SUN SUGAR OP
90 -BLACK PLUM ---BLACK PRINCE
91 -BLACK PLUM ---GREEN ZEBRA
92 -WHITE BEAUTY ---BLIMEY
93 -NORDIC GREEN ---WV 700
94 -GREEN ZEBRA ---SUN GOLD OP
95 -PARELLADA VERDE ---SOUTHERN NIGHTS
96 -TIGER LIKE ---WHITE BEAUTY
97 -CASADY’S FOLLY ---AUNT GINNY
98 -BLACK PRINCE ---FUZZY LADY
99 -YELLOW LINER ---AUNT GINNY
100 -BLACK PLUM ---SOUTHERN NIGHTS
101 -BLIMEY ---BRANDYWINE
102 -GREEN GRAPE ---AUNT GINNY
103 -BRANDY STRIPE ---WV 700
104 -AGATE GRAPE ---SOUTHERN NIGHTS
105 -POLISH --- AUNT GINNY
106 -JOKING TOM ---SOUTHERN NIGHTS
107 -ROPRIECO PASTE ---KATE’S BLIGHTER
108 -STUPICE ---KATE’S BLIGHTER
109 -GARDEN LIME ---SUN SUGAR OP
110 -PINKIE TOES ---WV 700
111 -JOKING TOM ---FUZZY LADY
112 -PECTIN GRAPE ---SUN SUGAR OP
113 -RIN TIN WIN ---GREEN ZEBRA
114 -MATT’S WILD ---CASADY’S FOLLY
115 -RIN TIN WIN ---AUNT GINNY
116 -FERTILE FERDIE ---WV 700
117 -BRANDY STRIPE F-7 ---BRANDY STRIPE F-8
118 -PECTIN GRAPE ---SOUTHERN NIGHTS
119 -MATCHMAKER ---GREEN ZEBRA
120 -POLISH ---SOUTHERN NIGHTS
121 -STRIPES FOREVER ---SUN SUGAR OP

I am new to this forum, but it appears that there may be some interest here in what I am doing in tomato research. The above list is a short list of what I have been putting into my seed inventory of many thousands of hybrids, segregating populations, clonal/cultivar selections. This list does not include the more complicated crosses that I have made this summer, and there are many more F-1 seeds to extract as I write

I was encouraged to come to this site due to the seemingly lack of interest in my work over at another tomato forum.

Tom Wagner

[Patrina_Pepperina]

A few Tom, a few you say? (Picture, me falling over in a faint!)

I don't know many of those names, but a I see a couple crosses with Black Brandywine. Is that PL? It should be interesting crossed with Green Zebra (and interesting to compare with Ananas Noir X Green Zebra). What do you anticipate in the F1?

My Black Brandywine is RL and is in my top 5 favourite tomatoes!

I'll look forward to reading what you find in the F2s

Patrina

[Tom Wagner]

John, Sun Gold OP is a few generations selfed. I don't have my records with me so I can't tell you the filial generation exactly.

Patrina, The Black Brandywine I used is regular leaf.

And yes, the list is just a few. Many of the listed hybrids were done with local growers in mind. Some could make splendid hybrids in their own right, but the F-2 population is where the real fun begins. Many will be used as F-l X F-l crosses as well.

Tom

[JabulaZa]

Good day Tom,
Welcome here and absolutely great to see.
Yes many of us here don't go to GW any more or very infrequantly.
Unfortunately as soon as this places name appear on GW the post disappear and you stand a chance to get banned (Ask Mischka).
Your expertize and crosses will enrich the discussions here tremendously and your work will definately interest me.

A couple of questions.
I see this cross:
117 - BRANDY STRIPE F-7 ---BRANDY STRIPE F-8
Where it the same line or two very different lines of the same F1 or just a plain back cross to the parent to enhance certain qualities?

Where any of the crosses to enhance heat resistance?

Bit of topic: If I remember correctly your also into potatoes?

Patrina
Please don't faint again you might just crush the F2's.
Tom is extremaly active in Hybridizing and dehybridizing toms and I believe potatoes as well.
And VERY knowledgable on both fronts.

It's NO JOKE his a MATCHMAKER (for tomatoes that is).

[moulman]

Tom,

I don't claim to have expertise in genetics or tomato breeding, but I am confused by what you have posted at GW and more recently here in this thread.

I know that many people like to "tinker" and have fun with breeding of vegetables, but it seems that they do so not only for the fun of it, but with a somewhat clear intent or final result in mind.
But what is the purpose of creating so many F1's constantly? Isn't the reason to make a cross to take it to it's desired final state the whole purpose of crossing in the first place?
You mentioned that you do this because this is your "thing" and that you don't have a "piece of ground", but have others grow your stock in their gardens/greenhouses. How exactly do you make that work? (need volunteers? 8) )

Can you give us some info on your activities and fill us in on your work?

Inquiring minds wanna know..

[spudleafwillie]

Tom,
Welcome aboard. Your expertise and knowledge about tomato breeding is second to none IMHO and will be greatly appreciated by the members of this forum. What are you doing in the area of PL breeding and crosses??

Best regards
Bill Malin (aka Spudleaf Willie)

[Tom Wagner]

Dave's questions first-

A couple of questions.
I see this cross:
117 - BRANDY STRIPE F-7 ---BRANDY STRIPE F-8
Where it the same line or two very different lines of the same F1 or just a plain back cross to the parent to enhance certain qualities?

Answers: These two Brandy Stripes were hailed from the same plant when they grew at the F-4 plant level in 1995. Since then, they followed a single seed descent. The primary difference is that the Brandy Stripe F-7 is as I intended it to be, namely; pink/yellow stripes, potato leaf, woolly, etc. The F-8 Brandy Stripe is all of the above but not woolly. It is the equivalent of the Vintage Wine which escaped my control in Europe.

The cross 117 is largely isogenic except for the woolly gene.
All of the offspring of this cross will be slightly woolly, which is my preferred way to effect the perfect Brandy Stripe. I maintain a true breeding Brandy Stripe with heterozygous woolly and non woolly genes. Seed is saved from each progeny that exhibits the slightly woolly trait. One half of the progeny will always be the slightly woolly. One fourth will be wo. and one fourth will be non woolly.

Cross 117 will also show up undetected segregations of genes. I should also be able to ascertain any hybridizing advantages of crossing highly related sib lines. I would like to see if there is any genetic drag reduced in the cross. I have found that true breeding woollies seem to demonstrate a limited amount of inbreeding depression.

Additionally, if there have been a number of segregating genes between the two clones, then I suppose the cross will be effective in re-scrambling those genes, and the selfing generations may help fine-tune the favored components without having to re-select for potato leaf, pink/yellow stripes, etc.

I hope this was detailed enough, Dave. Thanks for the question as it reminded me to pencil in the focus ideas on this particular seed packet.

Tom

[Tom Wagner]

Some of the members of this forum seem to know me fairly well. Yes, most of my breeding work is with potatoes. Last year alone I made 1,800 crosses of potatoes. Each year for the last three years I sow 100,000 true seeds of many crosses and OP's, and hand transplant them to the field. I usually start planting potatoes in the ground in late March and don't finish til nearly August. I dig potatoes from July to April.

I am seeking the perfect potato in all categories, white, reds, purples, red fleshed, yellow fleshed, orange flesh, bicolored flesh, russets. I cross old heirloom varieties, new releases, experimental clones, wild species. I am into flavor, nutrition, insect tolerance, etc. I maintain a database of pedigree info on anything I breed. I build up the single hill clones to commercial levels if they show promise and plant mini tubers of lines cleaned up for certification.

I make lots of crosses involving the two crops, tomato and potatoes, just to put the seed into my inventory. When it comes time to sow, I cherry pick depending on my whims and needs. This year I grew out seedlings from over 16 years ago on tomatoes and 47 years ago on potatoes. It takes a while to get around to all the seed I have.

Yes, Bill, I am putting together quite a group of potato leaf tomato crosses and recombinants. Many of those 121 crosses I listed will have a potato leaf parent. Having potato leaf traits make new clones that much more attractive and distinct.

I am working mostly with organic growere with my tomatoes. One greenhouse grower allowed me to supply nearly on his plants for an entire greenhouse. One plant per variety. Another grower allowed to me plant over 800 varieties in a single row. Others allow me plant along side their favs and I cross theirs with mine. The main thing is being close to these "babies" of mine so that I get seed from them. A fair trade off!

Tom Wagner

[JabulaZa]

Thanx Tom for the detailed reply on 117.

(Patrina I hope you were sitting down reading the previous post, absolutely amazing how many crosses one person can handle.
I would give an arm and a leg for the info in his DB and some of his seeds. unfortunately it will be currently a lost with me)

I hear Database, computers, programming my area of expertise.
What DB do you use?
Do you use the same DB for Potatoes and tomatoes?
More technical specifications on the DB, please.
with what and not?
Do you already write the focus Ideas down in the DB before making the crosses.
Do you have backups of the DB?

Regards

[spudleafwillie]

"potato leaf tomato crosses and recombinants. Having potato leaf traits make new clones that much more attractive and distinct."

Tom,
I'm looking forward to that list of potato leaf tomato crosses and recombinants. I too believe the potato leaf trait is both distinct and attractive and have dedicated my "tomato work" to collecting ( now about 600+ different PL varieties), and crossing potato leaf varieties.

Keep up the good work.

Bill Malin

[carolyn137]

About Black Brandywine.

It is unstable for many.

It was the result of a cross between Brandywine and an unknown black in the growing fields of Seeds by Design in CA.

When Craig grew it he got two different plants and fruits. As he described them, one was RL and appeared to be closely related to Black from Tula and the PL was a small fruit that he described as a bag of seeds.

And there are others who have also described instability.

I guess it was never genetically stabilized before being released.

The same is true of Big Zebra, also found in the fields of SBD in CA.

Hope that helps.

Tom, perhaps I should cut and paste over here this same thread that you posted at GW for the comments made there by others, including my own.

I'm glad you took my advice when I e-mailed you and suggested you register at Tville.

[travis]

Tom,

Two of your tomatoes whose names catch my eye are "Garden Lime" and "Green Nails."

Can you give us more details on those two, please?

And could you explain a little about what you expect when crossing those two with the cultivars you've selected to cross them with? For example: Garden Lime X Brandywine.

Also, I've very interested in why you selected Sungold for so many of the crossings. Can you expand on that a little? I'm a total amatuer at hand crossing tomatoes. But this summer I was foolin' around and happened to have made a cross of Sungold with Indian Stripe and another of Sungold and Juanne Flammee. I'm just wondering what to look for when I germinate the seeds ... and what to anticipate with regard to size, skin color, etc. in the F1.

Thanks for any information and insight you can provide.

PV

[Patrina_Pepperina]

Yes Dave, I read those posts of Tom's and started daydreaming that having access to someone who could grow out a few hundred plants of various lines would be like finding "tomato heaven". Closest I can get to that is the Forum Dwarf Project we are doing. :wink:

Tom, I'm planning on drawing up family trees for the crosses in the Dwarf Project using a freeware mindmap program called Freemind that Dave recommended to me, as a way to see the segregation patterns, hopefully also with pics (altho I don't know yet if I'm being too ambitious). Time will tell This is in addition to a spreadsheet on Craig LeHoullier's website with data and pics from each grower.

http://freemind.sourceforge.net/wiki....php/Main_Page

I suspect your complex crosses would be impossibly huge "trees"

Patrina

[Tom Wagner]

First of all, allow me to thank everyone for your replies. This is a busy time of year for me and I should have my head examined for thinking I could do justice to addressing issues brought up by my initial posting.

My primary DB is an old Dos pedigree system that the potato breeding program in Idaho has used for years. I have it on my old hard drive. It allows me to search offspring and parental searches, and shows a nice single screen shot of all the parents in 4 generations in an easy to view pedigree tree. It has options for alternate names, description info, etc. in a two page listing. I have thought about re-entering it into a more updated pedigree program.

My focus ideas are usually written on the seed papers, easily read thru the zip lock bags. However, many of my focus ideas are innate. Mostly I write –“Look for this and that”, and maybe a punnet square ratio of expectations. I look for recessives mostly.

Regarding Black Brandywine, my choice of crossing with this derives from a single plant grown in the winter of 2003/2004 at a La Conner, Washington greenhouse. It was a single seed descent (SSD) for two generations before using as a parent.

Garden Lime derives from a single plant grown near Paso Robles, California in 2000. It is a good fairly large slicer green. Cross number 109 -GARDEN LIME ---SUN SUGAR OP was done to develop these names: GARDEN LIME AND SUGAR, GARDEN SUN, SUGARED LIME, AND CHERRY LIME. Use your imaginations as to what the attributes of each would be.

Green Nails is one of my varieties first listed in my Tater Mater Seed catalog. It is one of my breeding lines. Indet., long green, stripes. It was one of the ancestral lines in creating the Greensleeves (Green Sausage) variety.

Why do I use Sun Gold and other similar types? They are ubiquitous in many areas. The need for a sweet gold in various improvements has been suggested to me.


Crosses Sungold with Indian Stripe and Sungold and Juanne Flammee.? You should look for sweets, golds, stripes, flavor, sizes in various combinations.


I looked at the sites for freeware mindmap program called Freemind, briefly and will have to review it more carefully before rendering an opinion.


“I suspect your complex crosses would be impossibly huge "trees"” is correct. I have to name many of my complex crosses because writing down the parents would be error bound. New Shirmer Stook has 90 lines in its pedigree. Others have even more tree branches!

Tom Wagner

[Rena]

Sorry I have been out to the loop (summer fundraising for Alzhiemers) and have never seen you post Tom! Very cool! I look forward to more!-Rena