Tell me about your seeds

[gunrunner]

I have grown tomatoes for many years but have never saved seeds. Was wondering, do you notice any loss of plant quality after growing saved seeds? Also, I just watched a vid on youtube where a guy took and tomato cut it in half and rubbed it on a paper towel to remove the seeds. Then he let the paper towel dry for several days then folded it up and put it in a plastic bag to save for next year. Is this a good method? Looks fairly easy to me, just wondered if it would produce a good plant this way?

Thanks
Mike

[seaeagle]

I went through all 1300 threads in this section and there is very little about fermentation or seed saving methods, here are a couple of threads:

http://www.tomatoville.com/showthread.php?t=6343

http://www.tomatoville.com/showthread.php?t=17016

Below is ContainerTeds Method

http://t.tatianastomatobase.com:88/w...g_Fermentation

Maybe Carolyn will do a red sticky thing on fermentation if she gets time

[AlittleSalt]

I am at multiple stages of saving tomato seeds. I could show each step in pictures if anyone is interested.

[ginger2778]

Originally Posted by gunrunner

I have grown tomatoes for many years but have never saved seeds. Was wondering, do you notice any loss of plant quality after growing saved seeds? Also, I just watched a vid on youtube where a guy took and tomato cut it in half and rubbed it on a paper towel to remove the seeds. Then he let the paper towel dry for several days then folded it up and put it in a plastic bag to save for next year. Is this a good method? Looks fairly easy to me, just wondered if it would produce a good plant this way?

Thanks
Mike

You will have some germinate, and the subsequent plants will not lose quality, but for better germination, and to clean the seeds of some diseases that might be on the seed coat, you should use fermentation. The gel around the seed will tend to inhibit germination, as it does inside the tomato. Even when dried.

[digsdirt]

do you notice any loss of plant quality after growing saved seeds?

No.

I just watched a vid on youtube where a guy took and tomato cut it in half and rubbed it on a paper towel to remove the seeds. Then he let the paper towel dry for several days then folded it up and put it in a plastic bag to save for next year. Is this a good method?

No.

Here is a good current discussion on all the how-to do it.

Dave

http://www.tomatoville.com/showthrea...=ferment+seeds

[Starlight]

Here is how I do mine. The below directions are those from Horseshoe's method from off on of his web pages. I have always used it and never had a bit of problems.

One...
Tomato Seed Fermentation

Here we go….~!

(1) Pick the tomatoes you want to save seed from. (Note: only save seeds from open-pollinated/non-hybrid plants.) I prefer to use a jar that has a wide mouth, wide enough to get my whole hand inside because it’s easier to mush up the fruit and leaves less mess.

two
(2) Break the tomatoes in half (or quarters) in order to get your hand and fruit in the jar. Commence to squishin’! Squish all of it… skin, pulp, juice, seeds, etc.

Three
(3) See how the final squished tomatoes look in the jar? Some folks don’t bother adding any extra water to it. I prefer to add water mainly ‘cus I can judge the process more easily (‘tis just a personal preference). I add as much water as there is tomato mush. In other words, if the tomato mush fills the lower two inches of the jar, add enough water to bring it up to four inches.

Four
(4) After adding water (if you choose) cover. Here I used a piece of a plastic bag but you can use cheesecloth or other fabric. It is really not necessary to cover at all. However, by covering you keep the knats and flies from hovering around. (It also hides the bouquet of the fermentation process!)

Wednesday, July 27, 2005

Five
(5) Set your jar aside in a room temperature area (preferably outside). In a day or so (depending on the temperature) you’ll see mold growing on top. Leave it alone. Some folks will stir it up but I don’t see the need. This is an anerobic process and the mold growth on top allows the anerobic bacteria to enjoy their natural habitat.

Six
(6) After a few days (usually 3-5 days after you see the mold growth, again depending on the temperature), you can begin the final process. At this point add water, as much as you like without overflowing, and stir it up. Allow the jar to sit and all the good stuff will settle to the bottom (viable seeds) and the rest will float on top. (I don’t call the floaters “bad stuff”…it’s great to add to your compost or directly to your garden).

Seven
(7) At this point you can pour off the floaters, carefully keeping the viable seeds in the bottom of the jar. When the floaters are poured off, add more water, swish it around and again let the jar sit so the seeds sink to the bottom. (This part goes fast, a couple minutes if that long.)

(7a) Repeat the above. Your seeds will now be in clear water, all the “trash” removed, and you only have one step left to perform!

(8) I use a strainer for this part. Holding it over a sink (or outdoors) quickly flip the jar of water and seeds over the strainer…the seeds will be washed into the strainer

(8) I gently wipe the strainer, or tap it, to get any excess water off it, then flip it over a paper plate (or waxed paper) and the seeds will fall out. The seeds, being wet, will clump together so use your finger to help separate them. I do this from time to time as they dry otherwise the seeds, when fully dried, will clump together. NOTE: Never let them dry on paper towels, napkins or the like. The seeds will stick to it and you’ll spend the rest of your life pulling a gazillion seeds off the paper towels/napkins.


(10) Allow the seeds to dry in an airy place (protected from winds, birds, mice, etc). When fully dry store in paper envelopes (labeled) or in a glass jar. I prefer to do both…put them in coin envelopes and put those in a canning jar and store in the fridge. This will ensure a long storage life.

[carolyn137]

Is this the Horshoe you speakof? If yes, I know him as Shoe and he's been one of my best seed producers fo over 10 years.

http://davesgarden.com/guides/author/horseshoe

Carolyn

[carolyn137]

Originally Posted by seaeagle

I went through all 1300 threads in this section and there is very little about fermentation or seed saving methods, here are a couple of threads:

http://www.tomatoville.com/showthread.php?t=6343

http://www.tomatoville.com/showthread.php?t=17016

Below is ContainerTeds Method

http://t.tatianastomatobase.com:88/w...g_Fermentation

Maybe Carolyn will do a red sticky thing on fermentation if she gets time

Carolyn already went into details, with pictures, in her Heirloom Tomato book, so not too eager to do it again.

But, first let me give you a Google search for fermentation:

https://www.google.com/?gws_rd=ssl#q...f+tomato+seeds

And don't stop at just page one.

There are many many folks who have been using fermentation, some for many decades, and from that link above look for links from

SESE (Southern Exposure Seed Exchange)
Selected Plants, Fusion's website
kdcom, Keith Muellers website

And I don't go fetch it but go to Victory Seeds and find the article on fermentation

Some use other methods to process seeds, one of the most popular are oxidative methods such as using Comet or Oxi-clean,

My problem with those methods is that several folks, including myself, have tried to find data about the efficacy with TOMATO seeds and none has been found to date.

Whereas Dr Helene Dillard when she was at the USDA Geneva, NY station had contracts with either Campbell's of Heinz, I can't remember which, to study the efficacy of fermentation. Her scientific papers are no longer available online but I spoke with her several times when she gave me a rough picture about her results, which was good enough for me.

Commercial seed processing is an acid one and I wouldn't go there.

Fermentation is a natural process that appeals to many of us as you can also see with the Google link I put up.

Carolyn

[gunrunner]

Thanks all for the information. Somehow I felt that the wiping process onto a paper towel
would not be a good method. Would I be safe to try saving from BetterBoy?

Thanks
Mike

[digsdirt]

(Note: only save seeds from open-pollinated/non-hybrid plants.)

Would I be safe to try saving from BetterBoy?

Only if you wanted to do some experiment to see what would grow from those seeds next year. Better Boy is a hybrid so will not produce true from its own seeds. Seed saving is for non-hybrids (open pollinated) varieties as they will breed true. Open-pollinated varieties are sometimes referred to as "heirloom varieties".

Dave

[carolyn137]

Originally Posted by gunrunner

Thanks all for the information. Somehow I felt that the wiping process onto a paper towel
would not be a good method. Would I be safe to try saving from BetterBoy?

Thanks
Mike

Mike, Dave has answered you but since I have personal experience saving seeds from Big Boy F1, bred by Dr, Oved Shifriss and also know that John Peto bred Better Boy F1, I can tell you the following.

Both ofthose hybrids have one parent in common and that's Teddy Jones, a large pink heirloom tomato from the midwest.

I wanted to see if I could get Teddy Jones out of Big Boy F1 and Oved was my advisor. So I saved the F2 seeds from the hybrid fruits and planted out about maybe 10 plants. I got red fruits of different sizes and shapes, all due to what's called genetic segregation, and of course I tasted those fruits, b'c they were there, and nothing exceptional. There were just two plants that had the pink fruits I was after, but Oved said they were too small,but I never did b'c even the smaller pink ones weren't to my liking taste-wise.

Oved was at Burpee when he bred BBoy F1 and so was John Peto, but he left taking Teddy Jones seeds with him and formed a company called Petoseed, which is how TJ became one parent of Better Boy F1.

All to say that I think you'd be wasting your time saving seeds from BB F1 unless you have a specific goal in mind and are willing to spend several years going after that goal.

An OP version of Big Boy F1 is known:

http://tatianastomatobase.com/wiki/B...b=General_Info

But I've never seen an OP version of BB F1, not at Tania's data base nor by looking at several of my earlier SSE Yearbooks


Hoe that helps,

Carolyn

[TexasTycoon]

Originally Posted by seaeagle

I went through all 1300 threads in this section and there is very little about fermentation or seed saving methods, here are a couple of threads:

http://www.tomatoville.com/showthread.php?t=6343

http://www.tomatoville.com/showthread.php?t=17016

Below is ContainerTeds Method

http://t.tatianastomatobase.com:88/w...g_Fermentation

Maybe Carolyn will do a red sticky thing on fermentation if she gets time

P.S. Your third link is broken: http://tatianastomatobase.com/wiki/A...g_Fermentation

[seaeagle]

Originally Posted by TexasTycoon

P.S. Your third link is broken: http://tatianastomatobase.com/wiki/A...g_Fermentation

Try this link

http://t.tatianastomatobase.com:88/wiki/Main_Page

On the left side of the webpage click on Reports and Other Resources>>>Seed Saving and that will take you to the page on Fermentation

The link you said is broken works when I click it

[seaeagle]

Originally Posted by carolyn137

Is this the Horshoe you speakof? If yes, I know him as Shoe and he's been one of my best seed producers fo over 10 years.

http://davesgarden.com/guides/author/horseshoe

Carolyn

I don't know who Horseshoe is but one of his favorite tomatoes is Abraham Lincoln

"Another favorite tomato, 'Abraham Lincoln', dates back a bit further to 1923. An excellent slicer with wonderful disease tolerance. I hope to have it growing in my garden for as many years as I have taste buds (or have friends who do!). The meat to juice ratio is perfect! Slicing into it your eyes will witness a meaty fruit with just enough juice to transport its flavor to your tongue. From that point on you’ll discover a taste that is slightly acidic yet complemented with just enough sugar so as to not offend those of us with sensitive stomachs! An exceptional delight in the garden as well as on your plate! A friend of mine insists this tomato is “a little bit of heaven on a hot day”! By the way, “Abe” (like RCML mentioned above) produces fruit all summer long!"

Sounds like he has the original Abraham Lincoln and the picture of it sliced was beautiful and the plant was full of tomatoes.Probably why old Abe isn't more popular is because most people try the wrong version which seems to be sold at most seed companies.

[TexasTycoon]

Originally Posted by seaeagle

Try this link

http://t.tatianastomatobase.com:88/wiki/Main_Page

On the left side of the webpage click on Reports and Other Resources>>>Seed Saving and that will take you to the page on Fermentation

The link you said is broken works when I click it

I posted the corrected link in my post, it was the third link in your original post that wasn't working for me (had some extra characters). Course it could be the old computer I'm using. Sorry bout that!