Wrong seed again!

[Minnesota Mato]

has anyone had any good or bad luck with trade winds fruit ? I had one bad packet with them last year and just ordered some new stuff yesterday.

[peppero]

Originally Posted by Minnesota Mato

has anyone had any good or bad luck with trade winds fruit ? I had one bad packet with them last year and just ordered some new stuff yesterday.

i have placed several orders with them and have had total satisfaction. jon

[goodwin]

Replying to questions that folks have raised, I'm a seed vendor and I think my biggest nightmare would be to send out wrong seed or mixed seed - though, of course, I'd want to know.
That's a different problem than inadequately isolating varieties or releasing lines that aren't stable.
I often have a number of jars of my seed out as I fill packets, but it's good practice to have only one open at a time. And anyone who has saved seed knows how sticky those little fellows are and how careful you have to be to brush everything off. Anyway, it's probably just as well I do it all myself, because otherwise I'd be a wreck worrying.

[carolyn137]

Originally Posted by goodwin

Replying to questions that folks have raised, I'm a seed vendor and I think my biggest nightmare would be to send out wrong seed or mixed seed - though, of course, I'd want to know.
That's a different problem than inadequately isolating varieties or releasing lines that aren't stable.
I often have a number of jars of my seed out as I fill packets, but it's good practice to have only one open at a time. And anyone who has saved seed knows how sticky those little fellows are and how careful you have to be to brush everything off. Anyway, it's probably just as well I do it all myself, because otherwise I'd be a wreck worrying.

Lee, it's just plain fact that no seed site source that deals primarily with OP varieties is going to have a perfect record when it comes to seed purity. Most all of the small family owned sites that many deal with I know do their best but if they produce their own seed there's no way , especially if they list a lot of varieties, that they can bag blossoms, or isolate by geographic islolation.

Some sites produce all their own seed, others do some and buy some off the shelf and still others subcontract out and some do a combination of those ways of getting seed to offer.

And I think folks should realize that.

If a particular site has a record of sending out seed for MANY varieties that are not pure, then that's a different issue as I see it.

For several years when I was at Garden Web I put up a thread on wrong varieties, and it became apparent at that time that some seed sources were much better than others, or worse than others in that regard.

In my experience there are far more seeds that are crossed that are obtained by seed trading and that also came out in those threads as well. But there are those who just love to trade seeds and how I wish they would buy at least half of their seeds so as to support the commercial places, and especially now b/c of the current economic climate that's out there, b'c some of those places are hurting and in many cases it's their sole source of income.

So I think a bit of understanding of seed purity with purchased seeds is really necessary.

Recently I sent in my listings for the 2012 SSE YEarbook. I don't have a clue if there are any crossed seeds amongst those varieties I listed and clearly state the same in my contact information in the Yearbook.

And I do the same with the seeds I offer in my annual seed offer here at Tville.

When I was listing hundreds of varieties in the SSE YEarbooks and did all of my own seed production I would start the seed processing for the season by cutting my fingernails as short as I could and you know why.

Just some random musings as the sun rises over the hill in front of me where I see a couple of deer who probably want to know when rifle season starts as opposed to the bow season now in progress.

[goodwin]

hi Carolyn -

Hunting season is starting here too. And the deer are down with the cold in the high country and poor feed.
Anyway, I'd guess about 5% crossed seed here, and I raise bees, so there is plenty of opportunity. Currant tomatoes and some other types have a justly deserved reputation for crossing and I give them a stern lecture ( not that it does much good!). Some of the wild relatives I keep are obligate outcrossers, and that is just part of the heritage.
That said, once some crossed seed or an inaccurate description is out there, it is difficult to correct.
We're depending on each other (and folks like you with long memories) to keep things straight.

Goodwin,

I didn't know you are also a seed vendor. Do you have a web page I can browse?

I have purchased seed from most of the vendors mentioned on this forum (good and bad) and haven't experienced a single instance of "wrong seed". I don't think it would bother me because I enjoy the unexpected things in life.

The only thing that really gripes me is when a vendor rips me off. For example I purchased two packs of hybrid tomato seed (Juliet and Fourth Of July) plus four packs of cucumber (Sweet Success) seed from Burpee yesterday. The cost including shipping was $36.00. While I knew what the total cost would be, I still felt like I had been robbed when I hit the "Submit Order" button. I won't be ordering from Burpee again even if I can't find the seed with a different vendor.

While I haven't experienced "Wrong Seed" from a vendor, I sometimes wonder if I have experienced "genetically defective" seed from vendors. I purchased some Arbuznyi seed from a highly reputable vendor which resulted in every tomato (spring and fall crops) severely catfaced and deformed. I will throw my remaining Arbuznyi seed away because I don't want to perpetuate an imperfect strain.

Ted

[carolyn137]

While I haven't experienced "Wrong Seed" from a vendor, I sometimes wonder if I have experienced "genetically defective" seed from vendors. I purchased some Arbuznyi seed from a highly reputable vendor which resulted in every tomato (spring and fall crops) severely catfaced and deformed. I will throw my remaining Arbuznyi seed away because I don't want to perpetuate an imperfect strain.

*****

Ted, aside from the fact that it's usually large beefsteak tomatoes that are at most risk for catfacing, it's an environemental problem where Pollenization occurs when the temps are too cool, or the blossoms have in some way been damaged, so it has nothing to do with the DNA of Arbuznyi seeds as far as I can tell.

Have you never gotten catfacing with any other variety you've grown?

[gill_s]

I love Arbuznyi for its flavour. It is very high on my 'top flavour' list. However I do find it is inclined to catfacing, and BER and is not very productive. It also tends to have a thickish, 'dry' skin so that the tomatoes never look beautiful and shiny. I tried to describe this in an earlier post about GZ cherry-I called it 'russeting' because the skin is like that of a Russet apple. (Maybe that is a variety you do not get in N America, but they have a dullish, rough skin).

Going back to Arbuznyi I would still grow it for the flavour, despite these shortcomings. If anyone has an answer to combating the problems I should love to know. I grow it in a greenhouse with a minimum night temperature of 10degC (maybe this isn't high enough).
Gill

Carolyn,

I rarely have cat facing on other plants. I thought after the spring tomatoes were cat faced with irregular shapes, the cool, early spring; temps were at fault. Other varieties on both sides of the Arbuznyi did not cat face though their blossom and fruit set occurred under the same conditions as the Arbuznyi. I kept the Arbuznyi plants alive through the high summer temps and they set fruit under much warmer fall conditions. They still developed severe cat facing on all the fruit. They taste okay, but they sure are ugly. I can't think of a logical explanation other than genetic abnormalities.

Gill,

I've eaten the Russet apples here in North America though I consider them an "old" variety with their attributes surpassed by more recently introduced varieties. If I remember correctly, they were considered pie apples or cooking apples instead of eating apples. They did have a dull gloss surface compared to Red Delicious and others. I never thought of comparing their appearance to the Arbuznyi tomato.

Ted

[goodwin]

Ted -
I grow Arbuznyi each year because it is early and dependable. I like the flavor, but the skin is somewhat unusual. I haven't seen the catfacing on the strain I originally got from Solano.
I do see the fine veining on the surface like on some apples. That is evident in the photo below.
As far as our business goes, I teach school and own a small farm. During the summers, my friend, Jan, and I take produce to the local farmers markets and supply tomatoes to several restaurants in Santa Fe. We just started offering seed for some of our own varieties and favorite heirlooms a couple of years ago.
Our business is J and L Gardens (jandlgardens).
The seed part is something I enjoy doing. Let me know if there is anything you would like to trial. Mostly I work with lines and crosses to wild relatives, but I have done some traditional crosses as well. Keeps me out of trouble - except when the aroma of fermenting seed gets to be too much for the wife!
Lee

[Raffles]

Originally Posted by tedln

I've eaten the Russet apples here in North America though I consider them an "old" variety with their attributes surpassed by more recently introduced varieties. If I remember correctly, they were considered pie apples or cooking apples instead of eating apples. They did have a dull gloss surface compared to Red Delicious and others. I never thought of comparing their appearance to the Arbuznyi tomato.

Ted

Just like with tomatoes it's all a matter of personal taste with apples. I'd take one Roxbury Russet over 10 lbs of Golden Delicious any day.

There are some great newer varieties but it's hard to beat some of the older ones.

[gill_s]

Originally Posted by goodwin

Ted -
I grow Arbuznyi each year because it is early and dependable. I like the flavor, but the skin is somewhat unusual. I haven't seen the catfacing on the strain I originally got from Solano.
I do see the fine veining on the surface like on some apples. That is evident in the photo below.
As far as our business goes, I teach school and own a small farm. During the summers, my friend, Jan, and I take produce to the local farmers markets and supply tomatoes to several restaurants in Santa Fe. We just started offering seed for some of our own varieties and favorite heirlooms a couple of years ago.
Our business is J and L Gardens (jandlgardens).
The seed part is something I enjoy doing. Let me know if there is anything you would like to trial. Mostly I work with lines and crosses to wild relatives, but I have done some traditional crosses as well. Keeps me out of trouble - except when the aroma of fermenting seed gets to be too much for the wife!
Lee

Lee, I wish my Abuznyi looked like that! From the photo your tomato looks to have a smooth, glossy skin. Maybe it is the climate. The Russet apples I was talking about do not show the striping you get on many apples, but they have a dullish, rough skin as do many of my Arbuznyi tomatoes!
Gill

[carolyn137]

http://www.jandlgardens.com/

Lee didn't post the link but I will.

And also look for some of his crosses in the long term breeding Forum.

And now back to tennis from London, the last ATP event of the year.

[gill_s]

Lee
Iwent onto the link which Carolyn gave for your catalogue. I had hoped you would send to the UK and was encouraged to see that you had GB pounds for the currency option.
However when I tried to check out I had a message saying that you could not find shipping pricing details for my address and to contact you.
I could not, however, find any contact details

I should be grareful if you could give an e-mail address for this query.

On the question of shipping to the UK some of the US shipping methods make it very expensive- I have been quoted $12 and even $20 dollars for seed only orders. However I have had seeds from the US, ( Remy, Rainbow Seeds and Carol at Knapps veggies, being examples), with much more reasonable rates. Carolyn has sent seeds to myself and other UK T'villains, which would have been prohibitive for her at the expensive method.(This has all been without letting us pay- thank you very much Carolyn).
The seeds have always arrived in perfect condition.

I should certainly be prepared to take the risk of a less secure shipping method so that any risk does not fall on the vendor. Otherwise seed ordering, and lets admit you have a much better range of varieties than in the UK, becomes prohibitive unless it is for a very large number of seeds.

Gill

[goodwin]

hi Gill -

I use first class mail international which is very reasonable (perhaps one reason our postal service is in financial trouble). It is fast and reliable as well.
I'll send you a T-mail and also check my site to see why it doesn't connect you to my regular email. Also, virtually all the tomato varieties we have (about 350 in all) that you see on the farm website or are listed in the database are available to trial.
The last several years we have grown Arbuznyi for market and it is early and productive. It then fades a bit in the heat here and returns in cooler weather. Anyway, thanks for checking out our farm.