Amishland corrections plus advice for finding heirloom - Page 3

**carolyn137** · February 20, 2012

Jeannine, originally I got Plate de Haiti from Norbert P in that huge trade in 1992. William Woys Weaver asked me for it, I sent it to him, and Lisa is a devotee of WWW so probably got it from him.

As I've said so many times, I still don't know why so many buy seeds from Lisa with all the name changes she makes, and right now her descriptions and background of two of mine, Todd County Amish and Amish Potato Leaf are so off the mark it's ridiculous.

In the past several of us have tried to help her, but she doesn't want any help for it's all about PR and name changing for her so that varieties are almost always exclusive, rare, or whatever, and the blurbs for those so long that they capture the unwary.

About a month ago I started an e-mail to her but then looked at what I'd written and said why bother, she'll just ignore it anyway.

And I think if you do a search here at Tville you'll find some threads about Plate de Haiti where it's been discussed before. Actually I just looked at some posts above and it already was discussed here in this thread.

JEannine wrote:

I don't know of you remember but last year I was looking for advice on two tomatoes I had brought from the UK..Madame Jardel's Black and Queen of Hearts. I offered you seeds of both but you diidn't get back to me,. The offer still stands.

I remember this and don't remember the outcome although I think you said you sent the last of the seeds for those two varieties to someone else, possibly Tania, I can't remember. Is it still a possibility, or not?

Jeannine Anne · February 20, 2012

Hi Carolyn, I have answered re the two seeds I offered you via PM showing you the last Pm in which it was mentioned.

I put the Lisa stuff here delibaretly as we had discussed the Palte de Haiti in this thread.

XX Jeannine

jennifer28 · February 20, 2012

I received good service and good prices from Lisa when I ordered from her site a while back. I had a good germination rate, around 86% or higher. I would buy from her again. She has been very helpful to me when I asked her questions.

remy · February 21, 2012

Quote:

Originally Posted by jennifer28

I received good service and good prices from Lisa when I ordered from her site a while back. I had a good germination rate, around 86% or higher. I would buy from her again. She has been very helpful to me when I asked her questions.

I would think she does give incredible customer service and sells seeds that germinate well. My problem is her descriptions on her site. She has things like ~Exceedingly Rare - only commercial source in USA!~ and it isn't true. She has this with for example Fantome du Laos. I've offered this for 2 years now. According to Tatiana's Tomatobase, Baker Creek, Knapps and I have offered this variety. She can't say she wouldn't know that. A simple Google search show that. I won't say I'm not without mistakes, but I try hard to not make them, and when I'm told my info is wrong, I correct it.
Remy

**carolyn137** · February 21, 2012

Quote:

Originally Posted by jennifer28

I received good service and good prices from Lisa when I ordered from her site a while back. I had a good germination rate, around 86% or higher. I would buy from her again. She has been very helpful to me when I asked her questions.

Jennifer, I agree with Remy that it's not just Lisa being nice and answering questions, it's about her representation of varieties that are wrong, her name changing, her saying she's the only one offering this or that variety and on and on.

I think I said above that right now her info about Todd County Amish and Amish Potato Leaf, both varieties I got from Douglas of MN who posts here, is so wrong it's ridiculous, and she does the same misrepresentaion for MANY other varieties.

It's not in this thread but when many of us here were at GW before Tville opened, Lisa was asked to appear at GW and defend her position of misrepresentation and name changing, and she did appear.

And she didn't deny anything, she just said that she wanted to sell seeds, and to do that she thought she needed to alter this and that, whether it be Eenie Weenie Greenie for Green Grape, or Native American for Cherokee Purple, the list of misrepresentations and name changes goes back many years.

After that GW appearance she was pretty good for a while and then reverted back to the old Lisa so many of us knew.

When Andrey first started trying to find a place online to share his seeds he sent Lisa several varieties, Orange-1 being one of them, which I've grown, so she ASAP changes that name as well and Andrey was so sorry he sent her what he did, but at that point he wasn't familiar with seed sites and those who were trustworthy and those who were not.

texasrockgarden · February 21, 2012

For my personal info, what is the name of Lisa's website, please? If you would like to answer via PM, I will delete contents of this post later. Thanks

Petronius_II · February 21, 2012

Quote:

She has things like ~Exceedingly Rare - only commercial source in USA!~ and it isn't true.

***giggles and snickers***

Yeah, but Burpee and several other of the big players have been falsely claiming "exclusives" for years, and everybody just shrugs it off.

______________________________

To be more serious about it, cases that bother me include things like Park's (and Kitazawa's) Kwintus pole bean, apparently one of the all-time best pole beans, which according to my research is also available from other suppliers, including Heritage Harvest, under the former name Early Riser. Using two names for the same variety is not at all beneficial to the consumer, which makes me wonder, who renamed it, and why? The point being, I don't think it's always the little guys who engage in this form of questionable hucksterism.

Jeannine Anne · February 21, 2012

I would agree with the above but........ wether they be big or small companies, the folks that buy them are pinning there hopes on these seeds sites and citing another "naughty guy" doesn't make the one we are talking about any less guity.

I think this thread has been straightforward and to the point, honest without being rude, a fact is a fact and the true fact is Amishland are not playing nice. I guess it is the owners privelege to run their business their way but it is also the consumers privelege to discuss their dealings with that company. We all go to sites these days to find customer feedback on companies and items we are planning to buy, this is but another eaample of that.

My personal opinion is that repeat custom is the way to go, however maybe the hype, true or not makes more money in the long run..and Lisa chooses to go that route.

Buying a dodgly vacuum cleaner may be more expensive, but buying a dodgy packet of seeds which could produce more seeds that are traded all over the world can be devastating to a variety and /or cause chaos in the gardening world for generations.

Why not just sell the seeds as they were intended to be sold and earn a good repuation.

Just my thoughts..

XX Jeannine

Worth1 · February 21, 2012

Hispaniola 1/2 french 1/2 Spanish and sometimes just one country.

The west is Haiti and the east is the Dominican Republic.
Columbus hung out there for a while.

A while back the French side ( Haiti ) had about 80 to 90% slaves and they took the place over and ran the French off.
They divided up the land cut down all the trees the soil eroded and Papa Doc came along.
The rest is history.

As for the tomato, who knows if it came there from South America then to Europe and back again or it just stayed there.

Darn picture looks like Costoluto Genovese to me.

Worth

Petronius_II · February 21, 2012

Yet more entirely-too-long-windedness doth follow henceforth.

I'm pretty much in agreement with you about Amishland, Jeannine, hope I didn't create any impression otherwise. I wasn't overly impressed by the site even before I read about it on this thread; I'd been doing a lot of research into varietal histories, and I'd already spotted some claims to "Amishland exclusives" that are patently false.

As a frankly not-terribly relevant aside: I'd note that in a very few cases when something like that happens, there may have been a sort of honest mistake on the part of some sellers, especially small-timers (not, obviously, Amishland, though.) When I put some locally grown seeds of (Albuquerque heirloom) Wenk's Yellow Hot on Ebay last year, I noted that "as of this writing, I am the only seller on Ebay offering Wenk's." I took pains to include the words "as of this writing" because I knew perfectly well that theoretically, five minutes later some other Ebay dealer might have posted a listing also. It didn't happen, but it easily could have.

I mentioned what I mentioned about Kwintus because I really do think that-- even though this thread started as being specifically devoted to Amishland as a topic-- it's as good a "place" as any to open up the dialogue a bit and talk a bit more about good business practice versus not-so-good. I often don't see certain ethical boundary lines as being so cut-and-dry as some other people may, and that's one thing I rather like about myself.

...And now for something really irrelevant (I think): off and on, I continue with a little research here and there into my parents' parents' etc. genealogy. On my mother's side, there's some Pennsylvania Dutch, some of which I'd often guessed maybe came from the Hessian mercenaries that George III of England hired to fight against George Washington. Earlier today, I double-checked some pages I downloaded from ancestry.com when I was a member, and it looks like I was wrong. Looks like that particular "breeding line" of my ancestors were almost certainly... Amish.

About the last factoid on earth I thought I'd ever stumble upon. I'm sure Mom had no idea, either. Who, me, part Amish? Knock me over with a feather...

You might think that might make some perceptible difference, one way or another, in how I feel about Amishland. So far, nothing. I still wouldn't buy from her. I just wouldn't... I don't see "Amish heirloom" as being any big deal. After all, my best educated guess is, at least 70% of the big beefsteak tomatoes grown in the world, and quite a few mid-size, have some Pennsylvania Dutch heirloom ancestry in their background, so it's not like mein mutter's vater's völker have been so forgotten, ja?

Jeannine Anne · February 21, 2012

Petronious, I am just fine with what you said, no probs at all.

Very interesting about finding the bit of info about your roots, it is always a surprise when one finds out a bit of something you don't expect, that is half the fun of it.

I believe that Lisa is not Amish she just happens to live in that area.

Worth, I am very familiar with the slave uprising in Haiti, long story which I won't bore you all with, suffice to say I have studied slavery most of my life..

It is coincidence that my best friends daughter is married to a man from Haiti, she is practically my adopted daughter too. I am Granny to her kids. A member of his family was coming here after the quake and the basket which was to include the seeds was for him.

XXJeannine

bughunter99 · February 21, 2012

The tactics are just so.......ICK.

The Future · April 2, 2012

Quote:

Originally Posted by Worth1

Columbus hung out there for a while.

A while back the French side ( Haiti ) had about 80 to 90% slaves and they took the place over and ran the French off.
They divided up the land cut down all the trees the soil eroded and Papa Doc came along.
The rest is history.

Worth

This is wrong on so many levels.

kath · April 2, 2012

Quote:

Originally Posted by texasrockgarden

For my personal info, what is the name of Lisa's website, please? If you would like to answer via PM, I will delete contents of this post later. Thanks

amishlandseeds.com/ just in case you didn't find it yet.

Wintergal · May 12, 2012

Out of the list I can tell you that two tomatoes truly exist and their names were not mixed up (well, almost). It's Efemer and Kibits. Efemer is a very early red determinate, Kibits is a rather late but super prolific red paste one, with fruits on a smaller size with distinct pointed end.

February 20, 2012	#31
carolyn137 Moderator Emeritus Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Upstate NY, zone 4b/5a Posts: 21,169	Jeannine, originally I got Plate de Haiti from Norbert P in that huge trade in 1992. William Woys Weaver asked me for it, I sent it to him, and Lisa is a devotee of WWW so probably got it from him. As I've said so many times, I still don't know why so many buy seeds from Lisa with all the name changes she makes, and right now her descriptions and background of two of mine, Todd County Amish and Amish Potato Leaf are so off the mark it's ridiculous. In the past several of us have tried to help her, but she doesn't want any help for it's all about PR and name changing for her so that varieties are almost always exclusive, rare, or whatever, and the blurbs for those so long that they capture the unwary. About a month ago I started an e-mail to her but then looked at what I'd written and said why bother, she'll just ignore it anyway. And I think if you do a search here at Tville you'll find some threads about Plate de Haiti where it's been discussed before. Actually I just looked at some posts above and it already was discussed here in this thread. JEannine wrote: I don't know of you remember but last year I was looking for advice on two tomatoes I had brought from the UK..Madame Jardel's Black and Queen of Hearts. I offered you seeds of both but you diidn't get back to me,. The offer still stands. I remember this and don't remember the outcome although I think you said you sent the last of the seeds for those two varieties to someone else, possibly Tania, I can't remember. Is it still a possibility, or not? __________________ Carolyn

February 20, 2012	#33
jennifer28 Two-faced Drama Queen Join Date: Dec 2011 Location: Bellevue Psychiatric Hospital Posts: 955	good service I received good service and good prices from Lisa when I ordered from her site a while back. I had a good germination rate, around 86% or higher. I would buy from her again. She has been very helpful to me when I asked her questions.

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February 20, 2012	#32
Jeannine Anne Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Canada Posts: 1,553	Hi Carolyn, I have answered re the two seeds I offered you via PM showing you the last Pm in which it was mentioned. I put the Lisa stuff here delibaretly as we had discussed the Palte de Haiti in this thread. XX Jeannine

February 21, 2012	#36
texasrockgarden Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: South Central Texas, Zone 8b Posts: 81	For my personal info, what is the name of Lisa's website, please? If you would like to answer via PM, I will delete contents of this post later. Thanks

February 21, 2012	#39
Worth1 Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Den of Drunken Fools Posts: 38,539	Hispaniola 1/2 french 1/2 Spanish and sometimes just one country. The west is Haiti and the east is the Dominican Republic. Columbus hung out there for a while. A while back the French side ( Haiti ) had about 80 to 90% slaves and they took the place over and ran the French off. They divided up the land cut down all the trees the soil eroded and Papa Doc came along. The rest is history. As for the tomato, who knows if it came there from South America then to Europe and back again or it just stayed there. Darn picture looks like Costoluto Genovese to me. Worth

February 21, 2012	#40
Petronius_II Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: Albuquerque, NM - Zone 7a Posts: 209	Yet more entirely-too-long-windedness doth follow henceforth. I'm pretty much in agreement with you about Amishland, Jeannine, hope I didn't create any impression otherwise. I wasn't overly impressed by the site even before I read about it on this thread; I'd been doing a lot of research into varietal histories, and I'd already spotted some claims to "Amishland exclusives" that are patently false. As a frankly not-terribly relevant aside: I'd note that in a very few cases when something like that happens, there may have been a sort of honest mistake on the part of some sellers, especially small-timers (not, obviously, Amishland, though.) When I put some locally grown seeds of (Albuquerque heirloom) Wenk's Yellow Hot on Ebay last year, I noted that "as of this writing, I am the only seller on Ebay offering Wenk's." I took pains to include the words "as of this writing" because I knew perfectly well that theoretically, five minutes later some other Ebay dealer might have posted a listing also. It didn't happen, but it easily could have. I mentioned what I mentioned about Kwintus because I really do think that-- even though this thread started as being specifically devoted to Amishland as a topic-- it's as good a "place" as any to open up the dialogue a bit and talk a bit more about good business practice versus not-so-good. I often don't see certain ethical boundary lines as being so cut-and-dry as some other people may, and that's one thing I rather like about myself. ...And now for something really irrelevant (I think): off and on, I continue with a little research here and there into my parents' parents' etc. genealogy. On my mother's side, there's some Pennsylvania Dutch, some of which I'd often guessed maybe came from the Hessian mercenaries that George III of England hired to fight against George Washington. Earlier today, I double-checked some pages I downloaded from ancestry.com when I was a member, and it looks like I was wrong. Looks like that particular "breeding line" of my ancestors were almost certainly... Amish. About the last factoid on earth I thought I'd ever stumble upon. I'm sure Mom had no idea, either. Who, me, part Amish? Knock me over with a feather... You might think that might make some perceptible difference, one way or another, in how I feel about Amishland. So far, nothing. I still wouldn't buy from her. I just wouldn't... I don't see "Amish heirloom" as being any big deal. After all, my best educated guess is, at least 70% of the big beefsteak tomatoes grown in the world, and quite a few mid-size, have some Pennsylvania Dutch heirloom ancestry in their background, so it's not like mein mutter's vater's völker have been so forgotten, ja?

February 21, 2012	#42
bughunter99 Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: zone 5 Posts: 821	The tactics are just so.......ICK.

May 12, 2012	#45
Wintergal Tomatovillian™ Join Date: May 2012 Location: Calgary Posts: 1	Out of the list I can tell you that two tomatoes truly exist and their names were not mixed up (well, almost). It's Efemer and Kibits. Efemer is a very early red determinate, Kibits is a rather late but super prolific red paste one, with fruits on a smaller size with distinct pointed end.