Interested in Growing a Multiflora Dwarf?

[dfollett]

Originally Posted by charline

tasted the first 12x F3 -6 and its very good, sweet and tomatoey, about a 8. Its a very cute multiflora micro. One that I will grow again!

Thanks for the post. How tall did it get? How good was the fruit-set/production?

[disneynut1977]

aarrgh, real quick , how does 1 attach a picture that has been loaded into flickr? I've done photo's on here in the past no problem, but I am having a really hard time doing it now. I already tried searching this topic and it just pull's up all the picture threads.

[charline]

Originally Posted by disneynut1977

aarrgh, real quick , how does 1 attach a picture that has been loaded into flickr? I've done photo's on here in the past no problem, but I am having a really hard time doing it now. I already tried searching this topic and it just pull's up all the picture threads.

I am doing it on photobucket. Really easy. just copy the "direct" link for the pic and paste it here

[charline]

Originally Posted by dfollett

Thanks for the post. How tall did it get? How good was the fruit-set/production?

one plant is about 20 cm tall, the other just under 30 cm
I lost a lot of flowers this spring in our rainy weather so production was not so good. But I think in better conditions it will be good.
Really the best micro I have grown until now

[jmsieglaff]

My 11xF3 plants are still producing tasty tomatoes.

Below is 19xF1 fruits. This picture is a few days old, they have gotten a bit bigger. Larger cherry at this point. Seed was sown in mid June. The prime season of heat and sun is obviously helping but these are coming along lightning fast.

[dfollett]

Originally Posted by jmsieglaff

My 11xF3 plants are still producing tasty tomatoes.

Below is 19xF1 fruits. This picture is a few days old, they have gotten a bit bigger. Larger cherry at this point. Seed was sown in mid June. The prime season of heat and sun is obviously helping but these are coming along lightning fast.

Nearly all of the F1 crosses manifest that same fruiting pattern that yours shows in that photo - with 8-12 fruits in pairs on both sides of a single stem.

[korney19]

Originally Posted by dfollett

Nearly all of the F1 crosses manifest that same fruiting pattern that yours shows in that photo - with 8-12 fruits in pairs on both sides of a single stem.

That's a L. pimpinellifolium trait...

[jmsieglaff]

This picture was a couple days ago. The first ripe fruit should be ready in a few days. The seeds were sown on June 9. If it is ready Monday that will be ripe fruit 74 days after seed sowing!!!!!!!! I know the plant is growing at the height of day length and warm temperatures but I'm still shocked at the earliness. 74 days from transplant is decent--but from sowing?!?!

[dfollett]

Originally Posted by jmsieglaff

This picture was a couple days ago. The first ripe fruit should be ready in a few days. The seeds were sown on June 9. If it is ready Monday that will be ripe fruit 74 days after seed sowing!!!!!!!! I know the plant is growing at the height of day length and warm temperatures but I'm still shocked at the earliness. 74 days from transplant is decent--but from sowing?!?!

Several of these F1s have been extraordinarily early. I finally was organized enough this year to keep track of days from everything on each one until a 3-point deer took a liking to tomatoes. By the time I installed an electric fence two weeks ago, it cleaned off nearly every fruit that set. If we get an early frost this year, I'll have lots of F1s that I don't get any seed from this summer. We've always had deer, but I've never had one do any significant damage before.

If that one is 19X, I'm a little surprised at the fruit size. They look to be significantly larger than either of their parents. I've only seen that on one other F1. It will be interesting to see what the F2s are like.

[jmsieglaff]

Originally Posted by dfollett

Several of these F1s have been extraordinarily early. I finally was organized enough this year to keep track of days from everything on each one until a 3-point deer took a liking to tomatoes. By the time I installed an electric fence two weeks ago, it cleaned off nearly every fruit that set. If we get an early frost this year, I'll have lots of F1s that I don't get any seed from this summer. We've always had deer, but I've never had one do any significant damage before.

If that one is 19X, I'm a little surprised at the fruit size. They look to be significantly larger than either of their parents. I've only seen that on one other F1. It will be interesting to see what the F2s are like.

Sorry I omitted the variety--it is 19xF1. I'm excited to see what the F2s will bring. IF the F1 flavor is really good, I could see the F1 being worthy of growing in it's own right judging by the production, health and earliness.

[dfollett]

Originally Posted by korney19

Sure! I grow Stick/cu 6 to 8 plants to a half 55-gallon cider vinegar [plastic] drum. What's the other parent or its features?

Is your Stick fruit light green at the green stages, or dark green? I have 2 different cu accessions but not sure which one should be called Stick. One has "typical" green, the other has very dark green fruit in the unripe stages...

Maybe I'll try a dwarf/MF cross once it cools down, I have 3 or 4 MF's growing now, plus NBD and Dwarf Variegated growing now. No Stick this year--only real oddity this year is Reisetomate.

We never got together about the micro multiflora cross with Stick. If you are interested in growing some out, PM me your mailing address and I will send you some F1 seed of the cross.

I don't know what type of fruit the Stick I used would have had. I have never grown Stick to maturity. I only grew it to where I could extract pollen for the cross indoors during the winter and didn't have the space to grow it out any further.

I have been more surprised by the F1 of that cross than any other so far. The F1 looks exactly like Stick. I assume that means the Stick leaf gene is dominant. I know it has to be a cross, because the seed came out of a fruit from off a micro multiflora regular leaf plant.

So, what possibilities does that leave for the F2s and beyond? Is it an either/or situation on the leaf type where the F2s will either be Stick or regular with maybe different fruit characteristics? Or, is there a middle ground where they could have some combination or blending of the leaf type?

[carolyn137]

Originally Posted by dfollett

We never got together about the micro multiflora cross with Stick. If you are interested in growing some out, PM me your mailing address and I will send you some F1 seed of the cross.

I don't know what type of fruit the Stick I used would have had. I have never grown Stick to maturity. I only grew it to where I could extract pollen for the cross indoors during the winter and didn't have the space to grow it out any further.

I have been more surprised by the F1 of that cross than any other so far. The F1 looks exactly like Stick. I assume that means the Stick leaf gene is dominant. I know it has to be a cross, because the seed came out of a fruit from off a micro multiflora regular leaf plant.

So, what possibilities does that leave for the F2s and beyond? Is it an either/or situation on the leaf type where the F2s will either be Stick or regular with maybe different fruit characteristics? Or, is there a middle ground where they could have some combination or blending of the leaf type?

Just curious what the reason(s) might be to include Stick as one parent in crosses.I just looked in my 2016 SSE Yearbook and not one listing for it as either Stick or Curl.

http://t.tatianastomatobase.com:88/w...b=General_Info

A comment from the person in MI saying there were several sources for it,no doubt, and how different they might be from the original is not clear to me since they could be due to subtle mutation(s) or X pollination..

Yes,I have grown it and like many others consider it to be a genetic curiousity, which is why I ask,since I thought dwarf multifloras with good tasting fruits were/are,the major goal of this project. But maybe I'm wrong?

The small red fruits are not good tasting IMO.

I confess I haven't been following this thread so please let me ask if any of the following have been included as parental inputs and if so,which ones.

Hearts, and yes there are small ones more appropriate to dwarfs

Antho anything

Angora Foliage

Variegated

Years ago, actually many decades ago I can't think of any home growers without formal genetic training who were breeding tomatoes which is why I think it's great that Dan started this project. I have seeds for many new varieties that were bred by homegrowers,but for sure,most of them have a background in tomato genetics.

And I will follow this thread just to see what many of you come up with.

Carolyn

[dfollett]

Originally Posted by carolyn137

Just curious what the reason(s) might be to include Stick as one parent in crosses.I just looked in my 2016 SSE Yearbook and not one listing for it as either Stick or Curl.

http://t.tatianastomatobase.com:88/w...b=General_Info

A comment from the person in MI saying there were several sources for it,no doubt, and how different they might be from the original is not clear to me since they could be due to subtle mutation(s) or X pollination……

Carolyn, you brought up several different items/questions. I’ll try to address them. The answer to why I made the cross with Stick is embedded in your question. You said you were curious why I used it as a parent. Well, I was curious as to what the cross would be – nothing more – and I like different – and I didn’t know any better.

Originally Posted by carolyn137

Yes,I have grown it and like many others consider it to be a genetic curiousity, which is why I ask,since I thought dwarf multifloras with good tasting fruits were/are,the major goal of this project. But maybe I'm wrong?

The small red fruits are not good tasting IMO.

You are right. Dwarf (or micro) multifloras with good tasting fruit ARE the major goal of this project. However, when I started making these crosses, this project was not even an idea, let alone my objective.

The first micro plants I ever grew under light during the winter were the Red Robin X Rose Quartz Multiflora crosses ChrisK made (MMF to me). I really enjoyed them. They were very productive, impressive to grow and tasted great. I then grew a bunch of other micros. None tasted anywhere near as good as the MMF, nor were they as productive or fun to grow.

So, I decided to make some crosses and see if I could create some decent flavored varieties that could be grown indoors. I originally hoped I could get some of these adopted into the Dwarf Project, but my timing was off. So hear we are…..

Originally Posted by carolyn137

I confess I haven't been following this thread so please let me ask if any of the following have been included as parental inputs and if so,which ones.

Hearts, and yes there are small ones more appropriate to dwarfs
Antho anything
Angora Foliage
Variegated

Hearts?
I have F1s of and have grown or am growing out F1 crosses of MMF with Dwarf Golden Heart (yellow heart from the Dwarf Project) – Crazy Calliope (dwarf purplish pink heart) – Balkan Tiger (Dwarf pink heart with orange stripes)– Striped Balkan Tiger (dwarf pink heart with pronounced orange striping) – and Tom Wagner 13309 (Green heart shaped indeterminate with yellow striping).

Antho anything?
I have F1s of and have grown or am growing out F1 crosses of MMF with OSU P20 – (OSU P20 X S. Pimpinellifolium F1) – (OSU P20 X Brandywine Sudduth F2) – Danube – Blue Beauty – and Baby Blue Cherry.

Angora Foliage?
I am currently growing out an F1 cross of MMF with Fuzzy Wuzzy.

Variegated?
Not yet. I just dropped seed of several variegated varieties I intend to use in additional crosses this fall with MMF and a couple of other micro multifloras that I’m working with that I like even more than the original.

I also have a bunch of other crosses with indeterminates and dwarfs of nearly every color and combination there is - Now, what to do with them?

Originally Posted by carolyn137

Years ago, actually many decades ago I can't think of any home growers without formal genetic training who were breeding tomatoes which is why I think it's great that Dan started this project. I have seeds for many new varieties that were bred by homegrowers,but for sure,most of them have a background in tomato genetics.

And I will follow this thread just to see what many of you come up with.

Carolyn

I would certainly welcome any recommendations you have as to which crosses have the most potential and how they should be prioritized. I claim no expertise in this area. I have absolutely no formal genetic training and no background in tomato genetics. Most of what little I know has come from this website and its members (and links this site has pointed me to), a couple of other websites and your book, Carolyn. I probably have no business playing in this arena, but what the hell - It's fun!

I'm glad to see you post here and would really appreciate any input, suggestions or recommendations you and anyone else out there are willing to give. I am trying to assess how much interest there is in developing additional flavorful varieties that will do well in a window sill or under lights during the winter. And to determine the best way to help develop some of those varieties.

I will post additional ramblings and ask for input as to how to move forward with the notion behind this thread in the next post.

[dfollett]

Carolyn’s post has motivated me and share some of my thoughts and try to figure out where to go with this little project.

I do not have the time or desire to try to duplicate what Craig and Patina have done with the Dwarf Project. What they accomplished with the help of 300 + volunteers has been phenomenal. My hat’s off to them. The small bit I did helping with the project was a big part of my motivation to try to develop some micro and dwarf multiflora varieties. However, it undoubtedly consumed an immense amount of Craig’s time over many years. Hopefully, he’ll be able to recoup some payment for that time in the form of book sales and speaking fees. It will be a well-deserved reward.

I'm curious as to how much real interest is there is developing new micro varieties that can be easily grown in small pots in a window sill or under lights inside. Is this something that a few people want as long as someone else does the work and develops the varieties, or are there folks who will help developing them?

At the very least, I am going to continue doing what little I can trying to find some new micro varieties – and I am happy to to share whatever I have with whoever wants to take part. When I started this thread, I had a few unstable F3 dwarf and micro multiflora lines. I segregated them from crosses with 5 OP varieties I just happened to have available two years ago when I decided to make some crosses. It has been fun growing them out and watching others enjoy growing them.

I now have F1 seed from crosses with an additional 55 varieties – including quite a few micro and dwarf varieties. (kinda silly, I know, but…). By this fall, I will have F2 seed for most of those crosses and will have several new lines fixed for micro and multiflora. I also have a couple of lines I really like that show a lot of promise. I want to have a few other people try them this winter. Finding the micros and the multifloras is the time consuming part of the process, but also the most enjoyable part.

If anyone would like to take a particular cross and own it and see what they can come up with, PM me and let me know what you are interested in and let’s see what we can do. I have sent a few varieties out for others to take the lead on growing out. I would love to see all of these crosses grown out by someone. I think there are some really great varieties to be found in them.

I am not the most organized person around. If anyone has expressed an interest in growing these that I haven’t sent anything to, it was an oversight on my part. PM me and I will send some. Anyone who has suggestions as to how to help this advance better, chime in. If anyone interested in taking the lead growing out a cross, let me know.

It’s interesting to grow and sort through hundreds of seedlings looking for those few that have the characteristics you are looking for. And the best thing about these things is that you don’t need acres of garden to sort through them. You can do an amazing amount with a few trays, some lights and a shelf or two – and it helps prevent cabin fever from setting in during the winter.

How much interest is there in these little things?

[clkingtx]

I think you know Abbi and I are very interested(she started her F1 seeds today, and I have some 46X F1s and F2s going, will start threads soon). Hopefully lots more people will chime in soon, too.