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Old June 15, 2017   #61
carolyn137
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OK, you all know the history of Stick and that it's a mutant plant. And now are looking at something to cross with it,for I'm not sure what reason,although I did read something about suckering in a post above.

Yes, a mutant plant but for me the larger question is how many mutations, and here's why.

Consider this variety

https://www.google.com/search?q=lute...&bih=790&dpr=1

and now

http://www.victoryseeds.com/tomato_l...or-bright.html

and now this

http://tatianastomatobase.com/wiki/Lutescent

Lutescent, nee Honor Bright was the result of several mutations,the first one causing a cascade effect of secondary mutations,I can't remember the technical name now, but such varieties and there is at least one more example that I know of,

So at this point I'm thinking that Stick might be another example and crossing it with any convential tomato variety is not going to help.

But there are ways that you can save seeds from Stick and play around trying to either repair or induce other mutations. Here's a thread that can help

the first link is the important one

https://www.google.com/search?q=How+...+with+mutagens

I have used both UV as well as mutagens when working with bacteria when I was in grad school, and can do that since most use E.coli for that which replicates every 20 min. Now compare that with a possible mutagenized seed from a tomato plant and how long it would take to get a mutant plant from seed to a mature plant.

Lastly,always be careful with UV since when I was in grad school I did a favor for a faculty member,forgot to pull the glass shield down to protect me from the bank of UV lights that are in such hoods (tissue culture)and almost lost my eyesight.

Carolyn, who hopes she helped,and at least she tried, and no more fetching links for her for maybe a few days at least.
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Old June 15, 2017   #62
Nan_PA_6b
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Carol, I am wondering if people have tried to get the characteristics of Lutescent or Stick to carry over in a cross? If not, perhaps it would be interesting to try.

I'm not sure I understand your Google link above, "reverse mutations of tomatoes UV, treat with mutagens." The results are about what seem to be complex lab experiments, but I don't think that's what you meant.

Were you saying that there is some way for us to "undo" certain mutations, such as keeping the growth habit of Stick but having normal leaves? I did not find that procedure in the Google search, but I would be very interested in learning to do it.

I am certain there are ways to increase the frequency of new mutations, using simple household chemicals or the microwave. You mentioned UV light. As in sunlight? Or some other source?

This is a very interesting topic you brought up.
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Old June 16, 2017   #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nan_PA_6b View Post
Carol, I am wondering if people have tried to get the characteristics of Lutescent or Stick to carry over in a cross? If not, perhaps it would be interesting to try.

I'm not sure I understand your Google link above, "reverse mutations of tomatoes UV, treat with mutagens." The results are about what seem to be complex lab experiments, but I don't think that's what you meant.

Were you saying that there is some way for us to "undo" certain mutations, such as keeping the growth habit of Stick but having normal leaves? I did not find that procedure in the Google search, but I would be very interested in learning to do it.

I am certain there are ways to increase the frequency of new mutations, using simple household chemicals or the microwave. You mentioned UV light. As in sunlight? Or some other source?

This is a very interesting topic you brought up.
Nan
Since it isn't known how many mutations are involved with either Stick or Lutescent,I think many,the chance of crossing either one with another variety I see as a very low proposition,as I wrote above.

YES, very complex lab experiments and that's exactly what I meant.

(Were you saying that there is some way for us to "undo" certain mutations, such as keeping the growth habit of Stick but having normal leaves? I did not find that procedure in the Google search, but I would be very interested in learning to do it.)

Again, this goes back to how many mutations are present in Stick. And yes, PL leaves can become RL and the reverse,via mutation,but I know nothing at all about Stick leaves, so if you want to mutagenize some Stick seeds as I described above,go for it.

(I am certain there are ways to increase the frequency of new mutations, using simple household chemicals or the microwave. You mentioned UV light. As in sunlight? Or some other source?)

Simple householdchemicals to up the fq of new mutations,well,if you're certain about it, again,go for it since I don't know of any.

I think it's good to know the structure of DNA and what kind of mutations can occur that can change it change it, for there are many, from inverted sequences,repeats,looping out , double repeat sequences and several more.

Microwave?

Craig L and I used that to increase the germination of older seeds,didn't work well at all but as for magnetic pulses increasing mutations,I haven't heard of that.

Yes, I mentioned UV light, but not UV from the sun since it's the angle of the sun that creates that UV which is one of the reasons that dark colored tomatoes are much darker than the same varieties in the northern climes.

The UV I'm talking about is kinda a lamp with a hooded metal shade,you dial up what frequency you think you need, by experimentation or a protocol already published. Place it over a petri dish,again at a known height and zap away.

Just letting you know that while i was browsing thru my faves recently I found the links that will convince you of the fact that pimps from S America and Mexico made their way to Portugal and Spain,which at that time were one country and then how they got to Italy.

But I have no time at all to add to your seed offer thread with those right now, since I have much higher priorities right now,trust me on that.

Carolyn
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Old June 24, 2017   #64
Spartanburg123
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Stick is now at 8 feet, and I have both vines wrapped helically around a stake, topiary style. They have pretty good fruit set, and the fruit is about the size of a golf ball. Interestingly, some of the fruit is VERY dark green, while others are lighter. I still haven't decided on whether to cross this with Sgt. Pepper's yet- I have enough on my plate with TSWV ugh....
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File Type: jpg Stick 1 6-24-17.JPG (175.2 KB, 59 views)
File Type: jpg Stick 2 6-24-17.JPG (174.5 KB, 58 views)
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Old June 25, 2017   #65
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Your Stick is amazing! How high will it go?

Unfortunately, mine got clipped by our marauding deer one night, coming right up on the cement pad under our deck. Took out my best flower planter and every leaf of my potted hibiscus, which actually made me more upset than the Stick. It will be interesting to see if it divides more than normal, it's been slow to show signs of regrowth. It did manage to set one tomato, so at least I will have fresh seeds for my effort.

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Old June 25, 2017   #66
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Dee, deer pruning might help to keep it down to size !
And maybe they will get bushy !

Very interesting variety.
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Old June 25, 2017   #67
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Ouch Dee- those deer are sneaky things! Stick will come back. This is a tough little plant. It doesn't drink much, and all of its growth goes to the stem and the fruit. The fruit are surprisingly large for the size of the plant. I'll snap some more close-ups today. I may have to string this vine from the top over to another structure!
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Old June 25, 2017   #68
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Here are some fruit pictures. Interestingly, one of the branches on one Stick vine produced VERY dark green fruit, with some faint striping- while the other branch produced light green fruit with no striping. I have read about Stick producing dark green or light green unripe fruit, but not from the same vine! I tried to capture the difference in the same frame in a few pics. Also, the branch that produced the dark green fruit died, so I had to clip him off.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Stick 1 6-25-17.JPG (154.9 KB, 45 views)
File Type: jpg Stick 2 6-25-17.JPG (114.3 KB, 45 views)
File Type: jpg Stick 3 6-25-17.JPG (129.9 KB, 45 views)
File Type: jpg Stick 4 6-25-17.JPG (133.1 KB, 45 views)
File Type: jpg Stick 5 6-25-17.JPG (141.8 KB, 45 views)
File Type: jpg Stick 6 6-25-17.JPG (122.7 KB, 45 views)
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Old June 25, 2017   #69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spartanburg123 View Post
I still haven't decided on whether to cross this with Sgt. Pepper's yet- I have enough on my plate with TSWV ugh....
Aww, c'mon, do it, Darin!

1.) Inquiring minds want to know!
2.) It doesn't take a lot of time to do the actual crossing, if you have an Exacto knife and a blossom bag.
3.) Start now, since it may not take on the first try. (said by she who is looking at too many dropped blossoms on an attempted cross...)
4.)You can collect the seeds and decide later when to grow them out, or even let others do it.
5. We more often regret what we didn't do, than what we did. Carpe tomato!

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Old July 16, 2017   #70
Spartanburg123
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First flush of fruit from Stick- these are larger than I thought! Nice compact little plant. I will report on taste soon!
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File Type: jpg Stick 1 7-16-17.JPG (205.2 KB, 21 views)
File Type: jpg Stick 2 7-16-17.JPG (154.3 KB, 21 views)
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