Tomatoville® Gardening Forums


Notices

Member discussion regarding the methods, varieties and merits of growing tomatoes.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old October 30, 2013   #16
carolyn137
Tomatoville® Moderator
 
carolyn137's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Upstate NY, zone 4b/5a
Posts: 19,881
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by clara View Post
Carolyn, perhaps I was a bit too hasty to say that my Herodes was red - perhaps it was pink, I can't say for sure as I didn't check the epidermis. It was my first year growing Herodes. You know I couldn't take care of my tomatoes for some weeks and when I was able to do it again, there were only rotten tomatoes on that plant - I didn't even taste them, but tossed them away as they were looking too disgusting. My apologies for a possible confusion.

I have no other infos on it other than the one I already gave you from the seed package. As I don't speak Czech, Vladimir can surely better provide you with infos or perhaps Gunnar.

Sorry again! clara
Clara, nothing to be sorry about at all.

I do think it comes down to checking the epidermis when in doubt, especially with new varieties, if clear, the fruit is pink, and if yellow, the fruit is red, and using a known red and a known pink as controls is the way to go.

I'll have you know that I first listed Anna Russian many years ago in the RED section, b/c it looked RED to me, of course it's pink, but way back then I knew nothing about checking epidermis colors, but I sure learned how to do it.

Your translations say a pink heart and that's what the person who grew Herodes got and she did check the epidermis.

So all seems well in Herodes land except I'd still like to know, if possible if Moravo seeds offers just varieties that are bred by them or others or if Herodes is a family heirloom.

Carolyn
__________________
Carolyn
carolyn137 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 31, 2013   #17
MrBig46
Tomatovillian™
 
MrBig46's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Czech republic
Posts: 1,553
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by carolyn137 View Post
Clara, nothing to be sorry about at all.

I do think it comes down to checking the epidermis when in doubt, especially with new varieties, if clear, the fruit is pink, and if yellow, the fruit is red, and using a known red and a known pink as controls is the way to go.

I'll have you know that I first listed Anna Russian many years ago in the RED section, b/c it looked RED to me, of course it's pink, but way back then I knew nothing about checking epidermis colors, but I sure learned how to do it.

Your translations say a pink heart and that's what the person who grew Herodes got and she did check the epidermis.

So all seems well in Herodes land except I'd still like to know, if possible if Moravo seeds offers just varieties that are bred by them or others or if Herodes is a family heirloom.

Carolyn
There are two firms in Czech republic, what employ oneself in cultivation of vegetables now- SEMO Smržice and Moravoseed. Herodes is variety cultivated by Moravoseed and after tests in ÚKZUZ was placed to the book of types tomato ČR (to catalogue of EU automatically too) in 2010 year. Herodes is not family heirloom .
Some information about Czech tomatoes are on these pages:
http://www.semo.cz/ and
http://www.moravoseed.cz/
I hope, you can open these pages in English language.
A nice morning wish Vladimír

Last edited by MrBig46; October 31, 2013 at 03:51 AM.
MrBig46 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 31, 2013   #18
carolyn137
Tomatoville® Moderator
 
carolyn137's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Upstate NY, zone 4b/5a
Posts: 19,881
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by MrBig46 View Post
There are two firms in Czech republic, what employ oneself in cultivation of vegetables now- SEMO Smržice and Moravoseed. Herodes is variety cultivated by Moravoseed and after tests in ÚKZUZ was placed to the book of types tomato ČR (to catalogue of EU automatically too) in 2010 year. Herodes is not family heirloom .
Some information about Czech tomatoes are on these pages:
http://www.semo.cz/ and
http://www.moravoseed.cz/
I hope, you can open these pages in English language.
A nice morning wish Vladimír
Thanks Vladimir, you've told me what I want to pass on to the person who might be SSE listing Herodes as well as me offering it here in my Jan 2014 seed offer if there are enough seeds to do so.

And the information that it's not a family heirloom and was bred by Moravoseed was what I was after.

I don't have the time now to go to Google translator or other translators for the links you posted, but as I said, I now know what I wanted to know.

Thanks again,

Carolyn
__________________
Carolyn
carolyn137 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 31, 2013   #19
Doug9345
Tomatovillian™
 
Doug9345's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Durhamville,NY
Posts: 2,708
Default

Thanks for the links. I'm always curious about what's happening in other places. The Semo Link opened in English for me and in the Moravoseed site I had to click on the little British flag icon to read the site in English.
Doug9345 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 31, 2013   #20
MrBig46
Tomatovillian™
 
MrBig46's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Czech republic
Posts: 1,553
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by carolyn137 View Post
Thanks Vladimir, you've told me what I want to pass on to the person who might be SSE listing Herodes as well as me offering it here in my Jan 2014 seed offer if there are enough seeds to do so.

And the information that it's not a family heirloom and was bred by Moravoseed was what I was after.

I don't have the time now to go to Google translator or other translators for the links you posted, but as I said, I now know what I wanted to know.

Thanks again,

Carolyn
Carolyn, these pages are in English language too. It is not need Google translator how Doug is writen.
Vladimír
MrBig46 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 31, 2013   #21
MrBig46
Tomatovillian™
 
MrBig46's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Czech republic
Posts: 1,553
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Doug9345 View Post
Thanks for the links. I'm always curious about what's happening in other places. The Semo Link opened in English for me and in the Moravoseed site I had to click on the little British flag icon to read the site in English.
Doug, thank you for your information, that are important for the other Tomatovilan.
Vladimír
MrBig46 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 31, 2013   #22
carolyn137
Tomatoville® Moderator
 
carolyn137's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Upstate NY, zone 4b/5a
Posts: 19,881
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by MrBig46 View Post
Carolyn, these pages are in English language too. It is not need Google translator how Doug is writen.
Vladimír
I know that now Vladimir, but the reason I said I had no time now is b'c I'm watching the Masters 1000 level tennis event in Paris, which determines who the last of the top 8 players will be in the ATP Final in London next week, which of course I'll be watching as well.

Now you wouldn't want me to miss Berdych, for instance, who I just saw win over John Isner, and Berdych has already qualified.

https://www.google.com/#q=Czech+tennis+players

Carolyn
__________________
Carolyn
carolyn137 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 31, 2013   #23
Tania
Tomatovillian™
 
Tania's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Anmore, BC, Canada
Posts: 4,265
Default

Wonderful project, Vladimir!

Let us know how they turn out for you.

(btw, my father's name is Vladimir too )
__________________

Tatiana's TOMATObase
Tania is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 3, 2013   #24
MrBig46
Tomatovillian™
 
MrBig46's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Czech republic
Posts: 1,553
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by carolyn137 View Post
I know that now Vladimir, but the reason I said I had no time now is b'c I'm watching the Masters 1000 level tennis event in Paris, which determines who the last of the top 8 players will be in the ATP Final in London next week, which of course I'll be watching as well.

Now you wouldn't want me to miss Berdych, for instance, who I just saw win over John Isner, and Berdych has already qualified.

https://www.google.com/#q=Czech+tennis+players

Carolyn
That Berych did not advance, it isn´t a surprise. I irk Nadal. We will see in London next week.I wish a nice display image on TV and interesting finále.
Vladimír

Last edited by MrBig46; November 3, 2013 at 02:08 AM.
MrBig46 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 20, 2013   #25
MrBig46
Tomatovillian™
 
MrBig46's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Czech republic
Posts: 1,553
Default

STUPICE
There are only two varieties of Czech tomato Stupice!
Stupické polní ranní
Stupické skleníkové
Historic letter
The following is from Forest Shomer, of Port Townsend:
I'm always tickled to see how you laud the Stupice tomato! I certainly feel the same way. FYI, here is the letter from Milan Sodomka, originator of Stupice, which contained a small amount of each of his various tomato lines. This was in response to Rodale's first review of Abundant Life (which I originated) as well as Johnny's and three other start-ups.
"Prague, 24/3 1976
"Dear Sir:
"I am a permanent reader of 'The Organic Gardening and Farming' and the January issue I have read a very interesting article: 'Special seeds for special needs' and your successful undertaking. I beg to ask you for your catalog and some trial seeds esp. of your tomatoes, onions, lettuce, Marigold and Verbena for now. In the contrary I am enclosing four varieties of our Czechoslovak tomatoes and two East German bush varieties which proved here very well. And one Bulgarian variety too.
"I am 70 and in spite of this I am most happy when I can try something new in my garden.
"Please to write me if you have some wish I could accomplish.
"I thank you in advance!
"Very sincerely yours,
"Milan Sodomka"
Milan Sodomka never worked on the farm Stupice (I asked on the firm Selgen Stupice- they cultivat only field crops today- cereals, beet, etc. He was only gardeners, which probably planted only commercial varieties.The commercial seeds was very cheap in 70. age in Czechoslovakia and it wasn´t consuetude to conserve one´s own seeds.
Which from two original varieties is Stupice, it is chance to detect only by the planted Stupice alongside Stupické polní rané (Spr) and Stupické skleníkové (Ss).
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Stupické polní rané (Spr).jpg (369.1 KB, 123 views)
File Type: jpg Stupické skleníkové (Ss).jpg (484.3 KB, 121 views)
File Type: jpg Above Ss below Spr.jpg (341.1 KB, 120 views)
File Type: jpg Spr.jpg (174.0 KB, 118 views)
File Type: jpg Left Ss.jpg (395.3 KB, 120 views)
MrBig46 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 20, 2013   #26
MrBig46
Tomatovillian™
 
MrBig46's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Czech republic
Posts: 1,553
Default

STUPICE
MrBig46 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 20, 2013   #27
carolyn137
Tomatoville® Moderator
 
carolyn137's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Upstate NY, zone 4b/5a
Posts: 19,881
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by MrBig46 View Post
STUPICE
There are only two varieties of Czech tomato Stupice!
Stupické polní ranní
Stupické skleníkové
Historic letter
The following is from Forest Shomer, of Port Townsend:
I'm always tickled to see how you laud the Stupice tomato! I certainly feel the same way. FYI, here is the letter from Milan Sodomka, originator of Stupice, which contained a small amount of each of his various tomato lines. This was in response to Rodale's first review of Abundant Life (which I originated) as well as Johnny's and three other start-ups.
"Prague, 24/3 1976
"Dear Sir:
"I am a permanent reader of 'The Organic Gardening and Farming' and the January issue I have read a very interesting article: 'Special seeds for special needs' and your successful undertaking. I beg to ask you for your catalog and some trial seeds esp. of your tomatoes, onions, lettuce, Marigold and Verbena for now. In the contrary I am enclosing four varieties of our Czechoslovak tomatoes and two East German bush varieties which proved here very well. And one Bulgarian variety too.
"I am 70 and in spite of this I am most happy when I can try something new in my garden.
"Please to write me if you have some wish I could accomplish.
"I thank you in advance!
"Very sincerely yours,
"Milan Sodomka"
Milan Sodomka never worked on the farm Stupice (I asked on the firm Selgen Stupice- they cultivat only field crops today- cereals, beet, etc. He was only gardeners, which probably planted only commercial varieties.The commercial seeds was very cheap in 70. age in Czechoslovakia and it wasn´t consuetude to conserve one´s own seeds.
Which from two original varieties is Stupice, it is chance to detect only by the planted Stupice alongside Stupické polní rané (Spr) and Stupické skleníkové (Ss).
Vladimir, there were four Stupices, two for field growing and two for glasshouse growing. This we know from that long ago thread at GW which can no longer be accessed .

It was Kees Sahin, now deceased, of Sahin Seeds in the Netherlands who told me that Milan Sodomka had nothing to do with the breeding of the four Stupices.

Kees father was Czech and his mother was Dutch.

So it was Milan who sent seeds to Abundant Life and to other places as well, mostly in Europe.

Milan was not a breeder of tomatoes, just the person who spread some of them around.I have no idea what his connection was to the station where they were bred.

Carolyn
__________________
Carolyn
carolyn137 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 20, 2013   #28
MrBig46
Tomatovillian™
 
MrBig46's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Czech republic
Posts: 1,553
Default

Carolyn, I attempt to account you, why it isn´t conceviable, in order to determinante Stupices existed.
1.Czech tomato with name Stupice practically don´t exist . This is only shortcut name for Stupické polní rané or Stupické skleníkové- both indeterminante. It is no determinante tomato with name Stupice or with atribute Stupické in card index of ÚKZÚZ. Hereat the same edict as apply in EU today applayed in Czechoslovakia from 1950- somebody mustn´t carry the seeds, which aren´t written in book of types.
2.There are no determinante Stupice in Czech genobank in Olomouc too.
3.There are many Czech determinante tomatoes (from that age) , but they all name else- for example Vrbičanské nízké, Olomoucké nízké, etc.

Yesterday:
In the morning I becomingly clothed, I bought the bouquet of flowers (about six dollars) and I went to ÚKZÚZ for Ing. Lefnerová ( Expert for DUS Testing of Vegetable). I got card index of tomatoes (about 500 card) and I began the browsing. About in five minutes came a lady, according the demenaour „Big chief“. My inquisition began. What I want, why, for whom. She accord me to copy only two documents about Stupice. When I said her that I plant old heirloom tomatoes, she said me, that I prey seeds firms and she instanter came off. I feeled as before 1989 year. I remembered on Ing. Řičicová.

I have copies of these documents:
The registration new cultivation of tomato to the speeding in greenhouse „R 14“ (Stupické skleníkové).
The begin of cultivation 1945year. The registration: Stupice 22.12.1949 The homologation: 1954.
Cultivator: fy Selecta (Jaroslav Homola)

2. The registration new cultivation of tomato type 27-M (Stupické polní rané)

The begin of cultivation 1943 year. The registration: Praha 10.12.1946
The homologation: 1955. Cultivator: fy Selecta
I cannot get this copies here, but can post them by mail, if somebody has interest.
Vladimír

Last edited by MrBig46; November 20, 2013 at 01:52 PM.
MrBig46 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 20, 2013   #29
carolyn137
Tomatoville® Moderator
 
carolyn137's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Upstate NY, zone 4b/5a
Posts: 19,881
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by MrBig46 View Post
Carolyn, I attempt to account you, why it isn´t conceviable, in order to determinante Stupices existed.
1.Czech tomato with name Stupice practically don´t exist . This is only shortcut name for Stupické polní rané or Stupické skleníkové- both indeterminante. It is no determinante tomato with name Stupice or with atribute Stupické in card index of ÚKZÚZ. Hereat the same edict as apply in EU today applayed in Czechoslovakia from 1950- somebody mustn´t carry the seeds, which aren´t written in book of types.
2.There are no determinante Stupice in Czech genobank in Olomouc too.
3.There are many Czech determinante tomatoes (from that age) , but they all name else- for example Vrbičanské nízké, Olomoucké nízké, etc.

Yesterday:
In the morning I becomingly clothed, I bought the bouquet of flowers (about six dollars) and I went to ÚKZÚZ for Ing. Lefnerová ( Expert for DUS Testing of Vegetable). I got card index of tomatoes (about 500 card) and I began the browsing. About in five minutes came a lady, according the demenaour „Big chief“. My inquisition began. What I want, why, for whom. She accord me to copy only two documents about Stupice. When I said her that I plant old heirloom tomatoes, she said me, that I prey seeds firms and she instanter came off. I feeled as before 1989 year. I remembered on Ing. Řičicová.

I have copies of these documents:
The registration new cultivation of tomato to the speeding in greenhouse „R 14“ (Stupické skleníkové).
The begin of cultivation 1945year. The registration: Stupice 22.12.1949 The homologation: 1954.
Cultivator: fy Selecta (Jaroslav Homola)

2. The registration new cultivation of tomato type 27-M (Stupické polní rané)

The begin of cultivation 1943 year. The registration: Praha 10.12.1946
The homologation: 1955. Cultivator: fy Selecta
I cannot get this copies here, but can post them by mail, if somebody has interest.
Vladimír
In post #26 here you wrote Stupice, so I did too, which is the english way of referring to Stupike, and I think I wrote earlier in this thread that I was sent a pack of seeds from somewhere in Europe that had Stupike rani written on the pack.

I'm glad you did find a Stupike that was for glasshouse growing, b'c I knew there were two for glasshouse and two for field growing.

Carolyn
__________________
Carolyn
carolyn137 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 20, 2013   #30
Tania
Tomatovillian™
 
Tania's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Anmore, BC, Canada
Posts: 4,265
Default

Vladimir,

Thank you so much for the research! I would love to see the documents, but if they are in Czech, I am afraid I will not be able to read it...

Thank you so much for sending me Stupické Sklenikové and Stupické Polní Rané - now I have a unique opportunity to grow them side-by-side with Stupice, and see how close they are. Judging by the fruit size, Stupické polní rané should be closer to Stupice than Stupické skleníkové.

I also have Slava Poryni that I received from a customer in Poland. I understand that it is one of the parents of the original cross from which both Stupické originated.

I am also wondering where the name 'Stupice' came from... There is no mention of the names in the letter that Milan Sodomka sent to Forest Shomer of Abundant Life Seed Foundation in 1976 (http://www.seattlepi.com/lifestyle/h...he-1187046.php)

Do you know what 'fy Selecta' means? Is it a person's name or a name of a farm (or other organization)?

I understand that 'homologation' means 'approved for use', but please correct me if I am wrong.

Tatiana
__________________

Tatiana's TOMATObase

Last edited by Tania; November 20, 2013 at 11:30 PM.
Tania is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 09:20 PM.


★ Tomatoville® is a registered trademark of Commerce Holdings, LLC ★ All Content ©2017 Commerce Holdings, LLC ★