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Old November 28, 2013   #46
MrBig46
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Originally Posted by carolyn137 View Post
As I've been saying from the beginning there were two Stupikes for field growing and two for glasshouse growing as you just confirmed.

Abundant life listed the one variety just as Stupice, so Sodomka must have told them at some time it was Stupice and the name was "anglicized", as in writing it in English, if you will.

I also said that I received a pack of seeds from Europe, I don't remember who sent them to me, but it was Stupike rani ( not rane, as translated for me) and I couldn't tell the difference between the Stupice I had and the rani one.

You wrote:

Stupické rané skleníkové- analogical as Stupické rané.
Stupické rané skleníkové and Stupické rané aren´t varieties but only subspecies.

I think it might better to say stable selections, not subspecies for the following reason.

The genus for tomatoes is now back to Solanum.

The species is known either as lycopesicon ( cum) in Europe. or esculentum.

So we have Solanum lycopersicon. And sometimes as with Matt's Wild Cherry one sees S.lycopersocon var cerasiforme. Cerasiforme indicates that the stigma is below the pollen bearing anthers, not exerted as it is with about 50% of the currant tomatoes which are S. pimpinelifolium.

Individual known varieties of tomatoes are not known by genus and species.

They probably made the selections for glasshouse growing from selections that were less tolerant to outside growing where exposure to weather and diseases was a problem.

Carolyn
Stupice were not four (at no time). They were and still are only two – Stupické polní rané a Stupické skleníkové ! Because were only this two varieties could not Milan Sodomka buy four Stupices, but only two Stupices. Seeds of these two tomatoes are carried (shopped ?) more than 65 years still as Stupické polní rané and Stupické skleníkové, how it view on the picture (only colours of packs alternate). I began to grow tomatoes when I was on the University sometimes in 1966 year. We could (I and my parents) grow only this Czech varieties : Indeterminante (Sláva Porýní, Stupické polní rané, Stupické skleníkové) and determinante (Imun, Olomoucké nízké, Vrbičanské nízké)- granted varieties. We growed generally Sláva Porýní and Olomoucké nízké.
Next Stupices (Stupické rané and Stupické rané skleníkové) are only exhibits of seeds leid in Czech genobank (about 40 years) , where Andrey it read. It is not chance these seeds to carry from Czech genobank . That is way I don´t believe, that somebody have these seeds.
Vladimír
PS. : I have more information from book «Fruitage vegetables- 1968 » author Doc.Ing.František Vlček CSc the most authority on tomatoes in 70. age- manager of Research and Plant Breeding Inst. of Vegetables at Olomouc
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Old November 28, 2013   #47
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Stupicke polni rane and Stupicka sklenikove are varieties, which are each ten years tested by ÚKZÚZ. Ing .Lefnerová has a folder with all documents each variety (documents for 65 years). She could me copy only applications (entry, check in ??) of these varieties, the other that lady (Director of National Plant of Variety Office) inhibited (embargo). I shall not welcome in ÚKZÚZ in the future.
It is routine, that in the aplication is not name but only number or . The variety develops the definitive name after the homologation. Stupicke sklenikove in 1954 and Stupicke polni rane in 1955. Cultivations of tomatoes was abated in Stupice in 1950 year. Jaroslav Homola was from 1950 in the farm Vrbičany, where he cultivate determinante tomato Vrbičanské nízké (Stupické polní rané x Bellevue Bush).
Both variety Spr and Ss are (Mikado X Sláva Porýní) x Solanum racemigerum (from book). Sláva Porýní is old German tomato Rheinland Ruhm -red tomato.
If you don´t understand something,ask me. I must end.
Vladimír

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Old November 28, 2013   #48
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Mikado

I interested about tomato Mikado too. This tomato may be planted in all Czechoslovakia between world wars. Czechoslovakia from 1919 to 1939 = Bohemia+ Moravia+ Slovakia+ Undercarpatien Russia.
May be- Mikado planted in Undercarpatien Russia (Užhorod, Mukačevo)
After second world war Undercarptien Russia was agreggated to CCCP (Ukraine).
And I think, that this tomato http://www.violet.kiev.ua/products/2567 is sought Mikado.
Vladimír
PS.: Efisakov is from Ukraine?
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Old November 28, 2013   #49
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Vladimir,

Thank you!
What is the original Czech name for Moravsky Div?

I grew the Mikado Rozovyi from the Russian vendor (http://www.violet.kiev.ua/products/2567) in 2010.

My observations are recorded here: http://tatianastomatobase.com/wiki/Mikado_Rozovyi
It is a very good tomato. I hope it is related to the original Mikado! But of course there is no way to know for sure...
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Old November 28, 2013   #50
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I have re-worked the History of Stupice tomato - please take a look and see if I got the facts correctly -

http://tatianastomatobase.com/wiki/Stupice

As we do not know which of the two original Stupicke varieties was sent to Abundant Life Foundation, we should have Stupice article at Tatiana's TOMATObase, but I will also create separate articles for Stupické polní rané and Stupické skleníkové.

Tatiana
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Old November 28, 2013   #51
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Thank you all for the fantastic, informative thread!
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Old November 28, 2013   #52
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Me again, who is not going to go fetch the links she lost but here's roughly what I had posted.

Again noting that Mikado was one of the parents and also noting that the word Mikado was also used to indicate potato Leaf foliage.

I looked up Solanum racemigerum and it's one of many older names that all refer to currant tomatoes.

Tania, when one sees the variety it is known to be a large pink beefsteak as you know, so why would there be the other one called Mikado Rozovyi, which also means pink Mikado.

I should know better than to ask that question b'c we always see:

Brandywine
Pink Brandywine

.......at various seed sites.

And I'm remembering better now what happened with the Mikado seeds Craig and I got from the USDA genebank and that b/c I went searching in some older yearbooks.

The variety was not Mikado, it was Micado Violettor and was received from Norbert in France. I listed it as 4-6 oz globes in 1994, but that' way too small for Mikado/Micado. In the same yearbook some listed Micado Pink, wrongly as a Russian variety, but said 4-5 " irregular flattish pink beefsteaks and noted the orginal source (OS) was Marina, I think it was Marie Danilenko, TO2771 and that's the SSE accession number.

So it means that Marie had sent that one to SSE, she was a source of many varieties to SSE and yes,lived in Russia, and perhaps SSE listed it in the YEarbook in an earlier Yearbook but it is the right size, and NOT being a globe. I'm just not so enthused about going through my older Yearbooks pre 1994 right now.

But that larger size is what Mikado/Micado should be'

Vladimir, I was looking for the names of Czech breeding stations with hopes that I might recognize the name of the place that the person at GW had called.

Yes, I think I remember that Efisakov, Ella, is from the Ukraine, and Marina who also posts here is from the current Russia, and another one who I directed here from GW is also from I think either the Ukraine or Russia.

Carolyn
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Old November 28, 2013   #53
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I want to grow all Czech OP comercial tomatoes during in 2014-2016 years. I shall be to photo, write and judge them in this thread.
Vladimír

Albertovské žluté-yelow;Indet ;1995;20 g;balcony
Bajaja-red;Det;2010;balcony
Brutus-red;Indet;2008;1000 g;beefsteak
Citrina-yelow;Indet;2008;75-85 g;rounded
Dalimil-Det;2013;85-95 g
Denár-red;Det;1988;90-110 g;oval
Diana-red ;Det;1994;60-80 g;rounded
Dulcia-yelow;Det;1991;Slighty flatened
Duo- yelow-red;Indet;2008;25-35 g;rounded
Eskort-red;Det;1996;90-110 g;pyriform
Galera-red;Det;2010;80-90 g;rounded
Goldkrone-yelow;Indet;2005;15-20 g;rounded
Hana-red;Det;1987;70-90 g;oval
Herodes-yelow-red; Indet;2010;200 g;heart
Homer-red;Det ;2003;oval
Hugo-red;Indet;2010;200 g;peper
Jitka-red;Det;2010; rounded
Karla-red; Det;1996;80-120 g; balcon
Lehečkovo pomerančové-orange;Indet;2006; rounded
Maharal-orange;Indet;2010;200-300 g;rounded
Minigold-yellow;Det;1996;balcon
Odeon-red;Det;1986;70-90 g;rounded
Oranže-orange;Det;1996;oval
Orbit-red; Det;1988;70-80 g;oval
Patria-red ;Det2003;rounded
Pavlína-red;Det;1996;120-160 g;beefsteak
Perun-yelow;Indet;1999;15-20 g;pyriform
Proton-red;Det ;1993;80-90 g;plum
Radana-red;Indet;2008;15-20 g;pyriform
Romus-yelow;Indet;2001;100-120 g;ounded
Rubinek-red;Det;2009;balcony
Salus-red;Det;1986;60-80 g;oval
Semarol-red;Det;1996;80-90 g;plum
Šejk-red;Det;1998;80-90 g;ovale
Sláva Porýní-red;Indet;1952;72-78 g;slighty flatened
Spencer-red;Indet;2008;25-35 g;rounded
Stupické polní rané-red;Indet;1955;40-60 g;rounded
Stupické skleníkové-red;Indet ;1954;60-80 g;rounded
Taiko-yelow;Indet;2008;30-40 g;plum
Terion-red;Det ;2010;80-90 g;oval
Titan -red;Det;1988; 40-60 g;plum
Tritonex-red;Det;1996;80-90 g;plum
Venus-orange; Det;2008;15-20 g;balcony
Vilma-red;Det;1999;15-20 g;balcony
Zlatava-orange;Inde;2008;80-100 g;rounded
Hello

I will for the first time be growing a tomato from Spain in 2014:

Is called Muchamiel

Do you know everything about the back ground you can share with us.
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Old November 28, 2013   #54
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Tania, when one sees the variety it is known to be a large pink beefsteak as you know, so why would there be the other one called Mikado Rozovyi, which also means pink Mikado.
Carolyn,

Looking at various 'Mikado' tomatoes available from commercial seed vendors, I think I understand why 'Rozovyi' (pink) qualifier was attached to the name

As there are also Mikado Krasnyi (red) and Mikado Chernyi (black) varieties are also commercially available in Russia.

There are many tomatoes originated in Russia that have the same names with different color adjectives added to the names. Examples that immediately come to my mind - Dusya Krasnaya and Dusya Malinovaya, Krasnyi Gigant and Rozovyi Gigant and Zheltyi Gigant; Krasnye Gryozy and Rozovye Gryozy, etc.

When a variety gains some popularity in Russia, vendors are trying hard to release a variety with the name name and different color. That's a known phenomenon.

Tatiana
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Old November 28, 2013   #55
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Joyce,

I am sorry, the only information I know about Muchamiel is listed here (I know, this is not a lot, but that's all I have at this time) - http://tatianastomatobase.com/wiki/Muchamiel

As this is not a Czech variety, I would doubt there is lots of info about it in the Czech seed bank.

Tatiana

EDITED TO ADD: Fred created a new thread (http://www.tomatoville.com/showthread.php?t=30444) to address the question about Muchamiel. Thank you Fred!
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Old November 28, 2013   #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tania View Post
Joyce,

I am sorry, the only information I know about Muchamiel is listed here (I know, this is not a lot, but that's all I have at this time) - http://tatianastomatobase.com/wiki/Muchamiel

As this is not a Czech variety, I would doubt there is lots of info about it in the Czech seed bank.

Tatiana

EDITED TO ADD: Fred created a new thread (http://www.tomatoville.com/showthread.php?t=30444) to address the question about Muchamiel. Thank you Fred!
No, it's not a Czech variety and I just posted in Fred's thread as well, and said I'd grown it, but that's all.

The Spanish people prefer varieties that are eaten underripe, most have prominent green shoulders and even when ripe are tart.

All to say that I wouldn't grow it again.

I've grown several varieties from Spain and all the ones I've grown have followed the same pattern as this one, that is, way too tart for me.

I'm sure there are others that are better, but I haven't been growing any others from Spain recently.

Carolyn, waiting for delivery of her T-Day dinner, home cooked by the parents of Angie, who does her grocery shopping for her.
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Old November 30, 2013   #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tania View Post
I have re-worked the History of Stupice tomato - please take a look and see if I got the facts correctly -

http://tatianastomatobase.com/wiki/Stupice

As we do not know which of the two original Stupicke varieties was sent to Abundant Life Foundation, we should have Stupice article at Tatiana's TOMATObase, but I will also create separate articles for Stupické polní rané and Stupické skleníkové.

Tatiana
Tanja,
you did it perfectlly. Only it was better to write …. to the tomato was given to firm Sempra Praha and Moravian…….. (only if some Czech could be read).
Vladimír
PS.: I should like to post some pictures Czech tomatoes in summer
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Old November 30, 2013   #58
Tania
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Vladimir,

Thank you!
I am looking forward to seeing your pictures.

I changed it to
Quote:
* The breeding efforts took place on a state-owned Stupice farm founded in 1921 (Stupice is a small village near Prague, Czechoslovakia). The farm was nationalized in 1948 (as all the firms in former Czechoslovakia), then privatized again after 1989, and the 'rights' to the tomato was given to firms Sempra Praha and Moravian.
Is this now more accurate?

Tatiana
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Old December 1, 2013   #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tania View Post
Vladimir,

Thank you!
I am looking forward to seeing your pictures.

I changed it to


Is this now more accurate?

Tatiana
Tania, I thought like this:
The breeding efforts took place on a state-owned Stupice farm founded in 1921 (Stupice is a small village near Prague, Czechoslovakia). The farm was nationalized in 1948 (as all the firms in former Czechoslovakia), then privatized again after 1989, and the 'rights' to the tomato was given to firms Sempra Praha, Seva Seed and Moravoseed.

A nice day Vladimír
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Old December 1, 2013   #60
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Thank you VladimiR!
I fixed it, as you suggested.
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