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Old April 24, 2017   #46
seaeagle
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In regards to the organic vs inorganic fertilizer, if you read this link and are still convinced that synthetic is better then there is no way to change your mind.

I picked 6 of the reasons I liked best and will post here

1-Organic fertilizers contain trace minerals which are often critical to plant health and growth and missing in artificial fertilizers.

2-Organic fertilizers do not destroy beneficial microorganisms and earthworms.

3-Organic fertilizers increase a plants resistance to disease (Artificial fertilizers do the opposite which works out nicely for the manufacturers since they sell more insecticide, fungicides and other chemical poisons. Plants become addicted to the chemicals.)

4-Every pound of excess Nitrogen applied to the soil by artificial fertilizers destroys 100 pounds of humus.. .” The Carbon Connection, L. Ridzon and C. Walters

5-“Plants grown with ammonia- based synthetic fertilizers actually attract pest insects (Earth Kind Gardening, 1993). Many studies since then have confirmed that insects and diseases are attracted to plants that have had artificial fertilizers applied.

6-The University of California at Berkeley has found that broccoli and other vegetables fertilized with organic fertilizers attracted less pests (aphids and flea beetles) than those with chemical fertilizers. Additionally, the organic fertilized plots out yielded the commercial plots.

http://www.biogreenorganic.com/organ...utrient-story/
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Old April 24, 2017   #47
Gardeneer
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Quote:
Originally Posted by seaeagle View Post
In regards to the organic vs inorganic fertilizer, if you read this link and are still convinced that synthetic is better then there is no way to change your mind.

I picked 6 of the reasons I liked best and will post here

1-Organic fertilizers contain trace minerals which are often critical to plant health and growth and missing in artificial fertilizers.

2-Organic fertilizers do not destroy beneficial microorganisms and earthworms.

3-Organic fertilizers increase a plants resistance to disease (Artificial fertilizers do the opposite which works out nicely for the manufacturers since they sell more insecticide, fungicides and other chemical poisons. Plants become addicted to the chemicals.)


4-Every pound of excess Nitrogen applied to the soil by artificial fertilizers destroys 100 pounds of humus.. .” The Carbon Connection, L. Ridzon and C. Walters

5-“Plants grown with ammonia- based synthetic fertilizers actually attract pest insects (Earth Kind Gardening, 1993). Many studies since then have confirmed that insects and diseases are attracted to plants that have had artificial fertilizers applied.

6-The University of California at Berkeley has found that broccoli and other vegetables fertilized with organic fertilizers attracted less pests (aphids and flea beetles) than those with chemical fertilizers. Additionally, the organic fertilized plots out yielded the commercial plots.

http://www.biogreenorganic.com/organ...utrient-story/
I am not against organic fertilizers. In fact I use them : Fish emulsion, all kinds of manures and compost.
Quote:
1-Organic fertilizers contain trace minerals which are often critical to plant health and growth and missing in artificial fertilizers.
Not true : Some synthetic fertilizers also have trace elements.

Quote:
2-Organic fertilizers do not destroy beneficial microorganisms and earthworms.
Not true. Synthetic fertilizers may not promote microorganisms but they won't destroy them or the earth worms.

Quote:
3-Organic fertilizers increase a plants resistance to disease (Artificial fertilizers do the opposite which works out nicely for the manufacturers since they sell more insecticide, fungicides and other chemical poisons. Plants become addicted to the chemicals.)
I am not sure about this. There are perhaps more disease when/where no synthetic fertilizers are used. And more crops are wiped out in the third world countries that all they use is organic fertilizers.

NOTE: I think the proper therm is "Synthetic" not "Artificial" or "chemical'. Organic matter is also some form of chemical.
JMO
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Old April 24, 2017   #48
seaeagle
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Quote:I am not against organic fertilizers. In fact I use them : Fish emulsion, all kinds of manures and compost.
Quote:
1-Organic fertilizers contain trace minerals which are often critical to plant health and growth and missing in artificial fertilizers.

Not true : Some synthetic fertilizers also have trace elements.:Unquote

Still true. It didn't say man made fertilizers didn't contain trace minerals. It said organic fertilizers contain trace minerals that synthetic fertilizers do not.


Most commercial fertilizers do not provide even close to all the trace minerals your garden needs.


"Most crops utilize an average of 40 elements from the soil.
In no case do fertilizers add more than 12 and most
commercial fertilizers add a maximum of six elements."
Sea Energy Agriculture, pg. 69, Dr. Maynard Murray

Last edited by seaeagle; April 24, 2017 at 10:01 PM.
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Old April 24, 2017   #49
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I bought two bags of the Espoma Kelp at Wal Mart last week. I think it was Cole_Robbie (?) that posted about the Wal Mart clearance (Thanks!) . He didn't know what he was going to do with it and neither do I.

I'm two weeks from plant out, and I bought 2 bags at $4.50 per bag. I'm thinking of saving one bag for next year. What would be the best use for the bag at this time - add to the hole, incorporate into planting bed, compost tea for seedlings ??

- Lisa
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Old April 24, 2017   #50
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Originally Posted by carolyn137 View Post
Yes, Neptune Harvest products are complete fertilizers,both the fish and kelp ones,and that since they use a cold extraction process as I've linked to before.

They are foliar applied products.

Adding them to soil doesn't work, at least in my opinion,since the bacteria and fungi normally found in soils will just destroy them .

It was just posted below this post that one person said he amends the soil with manure and compost,and IMO that's the way to go if your soil needs amending.

And not all soils need amending either.If your plants are growing just fine why do anything?

Carolyn
So glad I saw this thread. I have been wondering the same question, how to fertilize in my SWP's. This is my first year using them and I just purchased a bottle of Neptune Tomato and Veg Formula 2-4-2 from fish and seaweed. I tried a little on some seedlings in the house and I will never do that again. Phew! So I decided Neptune is for use outside only, but how and when to apply and is it appropriate for SWP's? I have never applied foliarly. The lady at the garden center where I purchased the Neptune said to try to keep tomato leaves dry. We have leaf-spot septoria here. I have my seedlings in a little pop-up greenhouse for the time being. Should I wait until plant-out? We have had a lot of rain and expect more to come.
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Old April 25, 2017   #51
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If you are interested in fresh cold water,fish and kelp see the post below.

http://www.tomatoville.com/showthrea...hlight=aggrand
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Old April 26, 2017   #52
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last year I started using kelp and this year I started using kelp and fish fertilizer and the results are seriously good. Tomato plants are more healthy and vigorous than I have ever grown in the past. I am very curious about tomato flavor this year compared to past years. This is first year I am doing this kelp and fish fert combo
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Old April 26, 2017   #53
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Does anyone use kelp meal stirred into their potting mix for little seedlings? I started to do that, then had some Damping Off issues which scared me. I was nervous that adding organics into sterile potting mix might have caused the problem.

I later realized that mouse droppings in my potting mix could have been the culprit.

Linda
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Old April 26, 2017   #54
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The aggrand site mentions a presoak and drying of mediums as a seed starter amendment.I mix a combo of vermiculite(fine/coarse) dia/earth,some somewhat sifted coir,all are put in the spent 10/20 size trays,deep and short plugs.Prepared trays are always available ,stacked ready for news growths clones and m those cuttings you have had your eye on but never had some plug ang play materials on hand.
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Old April 26, 2017   #55
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I've used Menhaden fish meal in the planting hole. I was advised to also add SulPot (which is 0-0-20) which I did, and everything grew really well.

I have a bag of kelp, and would really like to use it for my seedlings. Wish I still had some Menhaden, but the place I bought it from doesn't carry it any more......

Linda
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Old April 26, 2017   #56
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A couple thoughts on using fish products for seedlings and the garden. I've used both fish emulsion and liquid kelp on larger seedlings with good results. But I don't think you can beat the real thing, that is fresh carcasses and entrails. Being a fisherman, I use them at plant out and to side dress during the growing season.

I was in N.E. Oklahoma last week fishing. I came off the water and was cleaning fish. A man approached and asked what I was doing with the entrails. I explained they were headed to a friend's garden. He went back to his truck and had two 5 gallon buckets full of carcasses and gave them to me. These and our many fish caught went into a couple deeply dug trenches. His transplants will go over the remains and are good to go for the season.

I've been fishing twice since I got home. The entrails were buried and a tomato plant set on top. These are used liberally, 5 plus lbs. per hole. Fresh guts will not burn and break down rather quickly but continue to feed.
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Old April 26, 2017   #57
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I believe you bjbebs, but when our goldfish suffered a massive die off after a particularly cold winter, I didn't dare bury them in my veggie garden for fear of inviting all the wildlife in the area. Instead, we bought two trees and divided the 50 pounds of our beloved deceased (and temporarily frozen) goldfish between the two. Both trees are thriving, and no wildlife came to visit.....


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Old April 26, 2017   #58
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Critters will be an issue no matter where you live. Here, any raccoon in the area will smell it. I have many heavy wire hoops I put over the areas. Not foolproof, but good for the most part. A raccoon will dig to get to the fish but seldom excavates the whole area. It's just a matter of raking the hole back in. If no visitors show in 2 nights the smell leaves.
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Old April 26, 2017   #59
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I think if you like/prefer a product an get good results, that is all that matters as far as you are concerned. But no conclusion, conclusively, can be drawn from it, UNLESS you use various products side by side on identical plants, and are able to MEASURE the differences .
I think one can get satisfactory results using various different products, be it organic or inorganic.
There is also a shadow of personal perception that looms. It is not just in gardening but also about other things in life.
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Old April 26, 2017   #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by greenthumbomaha View Post
I bought two bags of the Espoma Kelp at Wal Mart last week. I think it was Cole_Robbie (?) that posted about the Wal Mart clearance (Thanks!) . He didn't know what he was going to do with it and neither do I.
Let me know when you figure out what to do with the kelp. I still have no idea. Maybe I will foliar feed the family melon crop.
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