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Old April 25, 2017   #31
JLJ_
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A few thoughts that might interest some regarding Curl or CU (name given by finder-breeder 1953) / Stick (name given by Gleckler-seller 1959?) / Poodle (poetic descriptor by nctomatoman- date? ) . . .

The Curly Stick Poodle has diverse reports regarding flavor. Considering that healthy foliage to fruit ratio may be related to flavor, and that this critter's foliage is somewhat limited, it might be interesting if anyone growing a number of these has already or does try removing some fruit from one or more plants to see if they detect difference in fruit quality?

For those interested in but not familiar with its ancestry, which might be particularly relevant regarding the quality or potential quality of its fruit, the Curly Stick Poodle is a mutated/selected/improved Chalk's Early Jewel . . . sort of.

At the beginning of the 20th century George Middleton found an atypical plant in a field of Chalk's Early Jewel, grew seeds descended from it, selecting for earliness and fruit quality and ended up with what was considered a highly desirable tomato that was named Bonny Best. It was introduced by Stokes in 1908.

Selection to improve Bonny Best continued over the years, but in 1933 Stokes found a single unusual plant in a field of Bonny Best (presumably their own, now many generation selected, "Super-Standard Bonny Best") They described this 1st Stokesdale as being either a single plant mutation of Bonny Best or a cross between Bonny Best and Marglobe. Probably their own 8th generation (at the time the Stokesdale ancestral plant appeared) "Stokes Master Marglobe".

In 1953, P.A. Young reported a dominant mutation found in a field of Stokesdale and called it Curl or CU which was later called Stick, and still later, the Poodle tomato.

For anyone interested, this 1936 publication by Stokes, when they introduced Stokesdale, briefly discussed some of their methods and standards, and described a few other tomatoes they had developed and a few that they just apparently liked (and sold).

http://ia800402.us.archive.org/25/it...ow1936fran.pdf
Stokes brochure "Stokes for Tomato We Present Stokesdale a new tomato of unusual promise"

One thing that might be significant about that ancestry is that when Pritchard was doing the research regarding disease resistance he found very little resistance in Bonny Best but the reason for the success of his Marglobe creation was its disease resistance. It produced some plants apparently completely unaffected when exposed to wilt and nail head infected environments and a larger number that showed some disease effects, even if only under microscopic examination of plant parts, but still survived long enough to produce a good crop. (In descriptions like that Pritchard did distinguish between apparent immunity and what's sometimes now called tolerance, but that's another story -- resistance was the term of choice.)

So the Curly Stick Poodle's ancestry was Chalk's Early Jewel (mutation? & selection) > Bonny Best (mutation or Marglobe cross & selection) > Stokesdale (mutation & selection) > Curly Stick Poodle.

If, in comparisons between Bonny Best, Marglobe, and the Curly Stick Poodle, the latter's ability to survive disease proved to be more like Marglobe than like Bonny Best that *might* give a little evidence toward a Marglobe element in its ancestry -- though just a little, as intentional and accidental selection for ability to survive disease exposure could have changed the performance of any or all of these over the decades.

As many here could guess, the possibility of the Curly Stick Poodle being a Marglobe grandchild immediately causes my antennae to vibrate favorably . . . though Marglobe ancestry probably can never be more than a possibility so the Curly Stick Poodle's cute appearance combined with possibly good fruit is a greater appeal, even to me.

Curly Stick Poodle seems to grow long single vines. Would it be interesting if someone made a roughly dog shaped cage or other support and trained the vines on that?

Another 2010 thread on this tomato that I don't believe has been mentioned here is

http://www.tomatoville.com/showthread.php?t=16059
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Old April 26, 2017   #32
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Interesting stuff, JLJ! Did not know about the ancestry. I never really measured my vines, but in my short season, I don't think they were over 5 ft, but they did branch at least once. Will pay more attention to growth characteristics this year.
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Old April 26, 2017   #33
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Quote:
I trialed it several years ago, squeezed it into a tight space between two other "normal" plants. Being well shaded, it grew to about 4 feet, and produced ONE flower, right at the top.
It got too late in the season for a ripe fruit.

Dr. Lve Apple
Hmm. I think it must have been the shady conditions that held yours back. Given that it has so little leaf surface anyway, it likely can use a generous amount of sunny hours. I noticed the year that I had my Sticks in the most sunny location they produced the most tomatoes - not that that's necessarily a good thing - considering the flavor.
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Old April 26, 2017   #34
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That is really cool, JLJ- thanks for sharing! I'm seriously thinking about crossing this little guy with another in my garden. Why? Because I can! LOL. But I have two Sgt. Peppers in my garden- wouldn't it be cool to have a poodle plant with little antho-containing heart shapes? Probably just a pipe dream. But which should be the host plant?

As for my little poodles, here is "Earl the Curl" and "Twiggy" just this morning

Enjoy!
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File Type: jpg Stick 1 4-26-17.JPG (150.8 KB, 97 views)
File Type: jpg Stick 2 4-26-17.JPG (122.1 KB, 96 views)
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Old April 26, 2017   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JLJ_ View Post
A few thoughts that might interest some regarding Curl or CU (name given by finder-breeder 1953) / Stick (name given by Gleckler-seller 1959?) / Poodle (poetic descriptor by nctomatoman- date? ) . . .

The Curly Stick Poodle has diverse reports regarding flavor. Considering that healthy foliage to fruit ratio may be related to flavor, and that this critter's foliage is somewhat limited, it might be interesting if anyone growing a number of these has already or does try removing some fruit from one or more plants to see if they detect difference in fruit quality?

For those interested in but not familiar with its ancestry, which might be particularly relevant regarding the quality or potential quality of its fruit, the Curly Stick Poodle is a mutated/selected/improved Chalk's Early Jewel . . . sort of.

At the beginning of the 20th century George Middleton found an atypical plant in a field of Chalk's Early Jewel, grew seeds descended from it, selecting for earliness and fruit quality and ended up with what was considered a highly desirable tomato that was named Bonny Best. It was introduced by Stokes in 1908.

Selection to improve Bonny Best continued over the years, but in 1933 Stokes found a single unusual plant in a field of Bonny Best (presumably their own, now many generation selected, "Super-Standard Bonny Best") They described this 1st Stokesdale as being either a single plant mutation of Bonny Best or a cross between Bonny Best and Marglobe. Probably their own 8th generation (at the time the Stokesdale ancestral plant appeared) "Stokes Master Marglobe".

In 1953, P.A. Young reported a dominant mutation found in a field of Stokesdale and called it Curl or CU which was later called Stick, and still later, the Poodle tomato.

For anyone interested, this 1936 publication by Stokes, when they introduced Stokesdale, briefly discussed some of their methods and standards, and described a few other tomatoes they had developed and a few that they just apparently liked (and sold).

http://ia800402.us.archive.org/25/it...ow1936fran.pdf
Stokes brochure "Stokes for Tomato We Present Stokesdale a new tomato of unusual promise"

One thing that might be significant about that ancestry is that when Pritchard was doing the research regarding disease resistance he found very little resistance in Bonny Best but the reason for the success of his Marglobe creation was its disease resistance. It produced some plants apparently completely unaffected when exposed to wilt and nail head infected environments and a larger number that showed some disease effects, even if only under microscopic examination of plant parts, but still survived long enough to produce a good crop. (In descriptions like that Pritchard did distinguish between apparent immunity and what's sometimes now called tolerance, but that's another story -- resistance was the term of choice.)

So the Curly Stick Poodle's ancestry was Chalk's Early Jewel (mutation? & selection) > Bonny Best (mutation or Marglobe cross & selection) > Stokesdale (mutation & selection) > Curly Stick Poodle.

If, in comparisons between Bonny Best, Marglobe, and the Curly Stick Poodle, the latter's ability to survive disease proved to be more like Marglobe than like Bonny Best that *might* give a little evidence toward a Marglobe element in its ancestry -- though just a little, as intentional and accidental selection for ability to survive disease exposure could have changed the performance of any or all of these over the decades.

As many here could guess, the possibility of the Curly Stick Poodle being a Marglobe grandchild immediately causes my antennae to vibrate favorably . . . though Marglobe ancestry probably can never be more than a possibility so the Curly Stick Poodle's cute appearance combined with possibly good fruit is a greater appeal, even to me.

Curly Stick Poodle seems to grow long single vines. Would it be interesting if someone made a roughly dog shaped cage or other support and trained the vines on that?

Another 2010 thread on this tomato that I don't believe has been mentioned here is

http://www.tomatoville.com/showthread.php?t=16059
I especially like their use of mercuric chloride and calcium arsenate

And, at that time, they had dim hopes for the Rutgers tomato!

Great find, JLJ....
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Old April 26, 2017   #36
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JLJ, thanks! Spart, it's a really cool looking plant, isn't it?
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Old April 27, 2017   #37
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JLJ, thanks! Spart, it's a really cool looking plant, isn't it?
Yes it is Deborah! I smile every time I look at it. I think it's because I don't really think this thing is a tomato, no way could it look like that! When it starts flowering, it should be so cool.

I am seriously considering crossing it this summer, with Stick as the mother. I'm an inventor, so it's not too surprising I would do this
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Old May 5, 2017   #38
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Stick on 5-5-17. I am starting to observe what appears to be tiny bunches of flowers coming out of the top poodle. This plant is so cool!!!
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Old May 5, 2017   #39
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I like those green stakes you're using in the pot. They blend in so well with the Stick growth habit. I'm gonna have to get me some of them. Mine are currently at three leaf bunches each and still in their cups but ready to go into their final spot anytime.
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Old May 6, 2017   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spartanburg123 View Post
I am seriously considering crossing it this summer, with Stick as the mother. I'm an inventor, so it's not too surprising I would do this
Stick's leaf form is dominant, so make it the pollen donor. Then, any seeds from the mother that show Stick foliage are successful crosses and you can see it early in the seedlings.

You could cross it with a multiflora such as reisentraube to get tastier, more productive Stick-leaved plants. Or you could cross it with a heart to get adorable heart-fruited poodles. Or cross it with Post Office Spoonful currant to see what comes out. It might grow bigger and the smaller fruit might suit the plant better. Or do a bunch of them; a little pollen goes a long way...

Nan
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Old May 6, 2017   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spartanburg123 View Post
I am seriously considering crossing it this summer, with Stick as the mother. I'm an inventor, so it's not too surprising I would do this
Stick's leaf form is dominant, so make it the pollen donor. Then, any seeds from the mother that show Stick foliage are successful crosses and you can see it early in the seedlings.

You could cross it with a multiflora such as reisentraube to get tastier, more productive Stick-leaved plants. Or you could cross it with a heart to get adorable heart-fruited poodles. Or cross it with Post Office Spoonful currant; it might grow bigger and the smaller fruit might suit the plant better. Or do a bunch of things; a little pollen goes a long way...

Nan
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Old May 6, 2017   #42
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Originally Posted by Nan_PA_6b View Post
Stick's leaf form is dominant, so make it the pollen donor. Then, any seeds from the mother that show Stick foliage are successful crosses and you can see it early in the seedlings.

You could cross it with a multiflora such as reisentraube to get tastier, more productive Stick-leaved plants. Or you could cross it with a heart to get adorable heart-fruited poodles. Or cross it with Post Office Spoonful currant; it might grow bigger and the smaller fruit might suit the plant better. Or do a bunch of things; a little pollen goes a long way...

Nan
Great ideas Nan!!! Thanks!
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Old May 25, 2017   #43
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Stick is flowering! I am noticing two branches forming. Plants are now at 4 feet and growing very well.
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File Type: jpg Stick 1 5-25-17.JPG (118.8 KB, 49 views)
File Type: jpg Stick 2 5-25-17.JPG (203.9 KB, 50 views)
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Old May 25, 2017   #44
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Weird
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Old May 25, 2017   #45
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Fun!

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